Radiators: Is 22" enough for 400 HP?

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JoesEdge

JoesEdge

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Hi! I've been trying to research the heck out of this.

I have a nicely built 360 that has been dyno'd at 403 HP. I was built by IMM Engines in Indio,CA. So far, runs great but it gets a little bit hot. The needle is over 200 degrees.

So, I've come to the conclusion that my stock 19 inch radiator with stock mechanical fan isn't cutting it anymore. I have been looking at aluminum radiators with the larger 1 inch tubes in the 2 row configuration. From what I read, that seems to offer the best cooling.

The question is:

Will a 22 inch radiator with 2 cores and 1 inch tubes with a stock fan and no shroud (at least for the time being) be adequate, or should I go with a 26 inch radiator with the 2 cores and 1 inch tubes?

I have been looking at Champion Radiators, American Eagle Radiators, and US Radiator since those are what my budget allows right now.

I'm leaning towards the 26 inch radiator, but seems that the 22 inch is easier to find in stock and I would like it this weekend.

Thanks!
 
I have a 22" radiator in a 408 - 69 Valiant. - H.P. is around 450 - 2 row alum rad - 1" tubes - shroud - 7 blade Mopar fan - And overdrive on the fan/water pump ( larger crank pulley - smaller water pump pulley). Cools, marginally, with 50-50 anti freeze & water. - If you need more cooling then run just water with some lube like Lucas or _____. That should be your choice in Ca. i.e., no anti freeze.
 
I have a stock tank 22inch with a 3 core 5/8 tube rad, with clutch fan and shroud and my IMM built 408 pushing close to 600HP, and it stays under 180 with these cooler temps, and have never seen it go above 200.
 
RPMagoo said:
I have a 22" radiator in a 408 - 69 Valiant. - H.P. is around 450 - 2 row alum rad - 1" tubes - shroud - 7 blade Mopar fan - And overdrive on the fan/water pump ( larger crank pulley - smaller water pump pulley). Cools, marginally, with 50-50 anti freeze & water. - If you need more cooling then run just water with some lube like Lucas or _____. That should be your choice in Ca. i.e., no anti freeze.
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Cools marginally? That worries me right there. I have heard that running straight water isn't a good thing because a) anti-freeze has rust inhibitors, and b) it lowers the boiling temperature.

What brand of radiator do you have?

FredS said:
I have a stock tank 22inch with a 3 core 5/8 tube rad, with clutch fan and shroud and my IMM built 408 pushing close to 600HP, and it stays under 180 with these cooler temps, and have never seen it go above 200.
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Hmmm...so that stock tank is probably brass right? So is that better than aluminum?

Ok, I'm curious to see what others will chime in with. I'm hoping to place and order today or tomorrow in order to have it by the weekend to do some work.
 
you should good to go with the 22''

but the 26'' will be my choice

cant go wrong with a bigger rad
 
26 wins. Time table loses.
At 403hp you are sitting on a fence between not quite enough power, and having to put up with it. If you are a gearhead, sooner or later, you will be craving more power. With more power comes more heat; and if the 22 gives up, more money.

Straight water is a far superior coolant. In most of N.America we are forced to run antifreeze at certain times of the year.But in terms of sucking the heat out of the engine, straight water does it best.
 
JoesEdge said:
-- (1) -Cools marginally? That worries me right there. (2) I have heard that running straight water isn't a good thing because a) anti-freeze has rust inhibitors, and b) it lowers the boiling temperature.

(3) What brand of radiator do you have?




.
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(1) Marginally was a poor choice of words - 200 is the max that I've seen. -- (2) a) Not just water - water plus additives like -- Red Line Water Wetter -- Lucas Super Coolant -- Royal Purple Ice and others provide lubricant, rust inhibitors etc. -- b) -- Boiling temp is not a concern of mine - for me anything over 212 is a problem. -- (3) My Radiator was made by a local Radiator Shop. -- The Radiator Shop Guy is big on 2 rows with 1" tubes vs. 3 rows of 5/8" tubes. -- All of this works for me - just my 2 cents.
 
Why not sneak two 10" pusher fans on the front side of the radiator. Wire them to a switch. I use them for when I am in traffic. I have 3 row champion aluminum radiator. Jaguar fan clutch with vicious fan. Yes I built my own fan shroud. 450 hp 340 six pack.
 
From the sounds of it, it may see that a 22 inch radiator with a 1 inch tubes may be adequate, but what concerns me the most is sitting in bumper to bumper Los Angeles traffic. That can easily make temperatures rise, especially if it's in the summer time.

Another thing that I read is most of the aftermarket aluminum 26 inch radiators are for B bodies therefore a bit too tall for A bodies, which requires some modifications to the lower portion of the core support. I've read where a few members had to take a hammer to it, or cut some metal off. Should this be a big concern?
 
So I ordered a 4 core 22" champion rad for my 440 motor. I ordered it a blemish one (the drain plug was bent) with a aluminum fan shroud and 2 10" fans for 265 shipped. I haven't mounted it up as I'm building the motor now but it's rated for up to 700hp according to champion.
 
CHarger426, the HP ratings on the Champion site have no real useful meaning unless they are qualified on how they have calculated the the average BTU's and applied them. A 26", 3 row rad will not cool 700 HP continuous. So, the Champion numbers are based on some assumption of duty cycle and average actual power, not their actual listed numbers. How well the match your particular use is always hard to say; they never publish actual BTU ratings.

For the OP, the issue of sitting in traffic will likely be the worst case. You might get by with a 22" radiator with a very good OEM type fan and shrouding. But I see no good point in taking the chance and ending up too short on cooling capacity and having to buy twice. It is like cutting lumber: too short is hard to fix; too long is easy to fix.
 
I called US Radiator, told them what I was running, a 480hp 408, w/A/C and an automatic with a 22" opening. They built me a brass 4-row with the larger old style tubes and fins. The car runs cool with just a 5-blade clutch fan and no shroud as of yet.
 
I was part of a framing crew once, and on a lunch break, I sent a newbe out to the shed for a board-stretcher. He asked what it looked like, and I made some stupid stuff up. He was gone a long time.........I know,I know...I was bad.
 
nm9stheham said:
CHarger426, the HP ratings on the Champion site have no real useful meaning unless they are qualified on how they have calculated the the average BTU's and applied them. A 26", 3 row rad will not cool 700 HP continuous. So, the Champion numbers are based on some assumption of duty cycle and average actual power, not their actual listed numbers. How well the match your particular use is always hard to say; they never publish actual BTU ratings.

For the OP, the issue of sitting in traffic will likely be the worst case. You might get by with a 22" radiator with a very good OEM type fan and shrouding. But I see no good point in taking the chance and ending up too short on cooling capacity and having to buy twice. It is like cutting lumber: too short is hard to fix; too long is easy to fix.
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Agree with you on the number rating I mean that also dosn't take into account if a high volume water pump is used either. And your thermostat maters as well. I'm building my car to be daily driven if needed and I would have no problem with the 4 core rad and electricit fan set up I mentioned sitting in traffic. But to each their own.
 
nm9stheham said:
For the OP, the issue of sitting in traffic will likely be the worst case. You might get by with a 22" radiator with a very good OEM type fan and shrouding. But I see no good point in taking the chance and ending up too short on cooling capacity and having to buy twice. It is like cutting lumber: too short is hard to fix; too long is easy to fix.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'm starting to think that maybe it's better to play on the safe side and go with the bigger radiator.
 
Good idea. Since you need one anyway, you might as well go a bit bigger.
Be sure to take a snap shot and report back with who you went with. I'll be approaching this possible problem myself right soon.
 
FredS said:
I have a stock tank 22inch with a 3 core 5/8 tube rad, with clutch fan and shroud and my IMM built 408 pushing close to 600HP, and it stays under 180 with these cooler temps, and have never seen it go above 200.
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This is good to read even more so considering your location vs. mine. I'm doing a 360 for the wife's '67 Cuda.
 
rumblefish360 said:
Good idea. Since you need one anyway, you might as well go a bit bigger.
Be sure to take a snap shot and report back with who you went with. I'll be approaching this possible problem myself right soon.
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rumblefish360 said:
This is good to read even more so considering your location vs. mine. I'm doing a 360 for the wife's '67 Cuda.
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Yep, been taking that into consideration too.
 
Eastwood company is marketing a radiator they advertise as a tri flo model. Claims your coolant will be 25 degrees lower using this radiator. Basically the is sectioned off 1/3 of the way down on one side and 2/3 on the other. The theory is since it is a cross flow model the coolant has a total of 3 passes thru the cooling area.
They have been selling them $200 all sizes. 22" 26" and 28" are available
 
long story short I started with the slightest of upgrades (several fans, water pumps,thermostats,shrouds, radiators) and now I ended up with a 27" radiator and a Ford Taurus 2 speed fan. You never know when your going to be stuck in traffic or car cruise watching the temp gauge creep up. You start calling friends asking if 230 is ok. Second guessing your 160 stat. Your kids are in the back "why is the car smoking daddy"
 
jefflock said:
Eastwood company is marketing a radiator they advertise as a tri flo model. Claims your coolant will be 25 degrees lower using this radiator. Basically the is sectioned off 1/3 of the way down on one side and 2/3 on the other. The theory is since it is a cross flow model the coolant has a total of 3 passes thru the cooling area.
They have been selling them $200 all sizes. 22" 26" and 28" are available
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Interesting. That's pretty much my budget. LOL I'll have to check it out.

skep419 said:
long story short I started with the slightest of upgrades (several fans, water pumps,thermostats,shrouds, radiators) and now I ended up with a 26" radiator and a Ford Taurus 2 speed fan. You never know when your going to be stuck in traffic or car cruise watching the temp gauge creep up. You start calling friends asking if 230 is ok. Second guessing your 160 stat. Your kids are in the back "why is the car smoking daddy"
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Yeah, I saw quite a few people here do the 26 inch + Ford fan setup. Looks like a nice setup, but I'm worried my stock alternator won't keep up with that fan.
 
BTW, Joey, FWIW, we have a 22"x16", 3 row Champion in my son's 340 powered '65 Cuda, that is a 400 HP design, with a stock Mopar fan and shroud. It cools just fine in light local traffic and up the mountains and on the interstate in this cooler fall and early winter weather in the VA Appalachians. But we have not had it running long enough to see about hot summer weather. And hot LA traffic is another story.....

Sorry I do not have more complete info for you. The 22" wide rad is all that would fit without heavy rad support mods and was put in by the PO so we are just trying it as is. I sure wish we could get BTU info from Champion; I may give them a call someday about this.
 
nm9stheham said:
BTW, Joey, FWIW, we have a 22"x16", 3 row Champion in my son's 340 powered '65 Cuda, that is a 400 HP design, with a stock Mopar fan and shroud. It cools just fine in light local traffic and up the mountains and on the interstate in this cooler fall and early winter weather in the VA Appalachians. But we have not had it running long enough to see about hot summer weather. And hot LA traffic is another story.....

Sorry I do not have more complete info for you. The 22" wide rad is all that would fit without heavy rad support mods and was put in by the PO so we are just trying it as is. I sure wish we could get BTU info from Champion; I may give them a call someday about this.
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Do you happen to have a picture of the stock shroud on the Champion radiator???
 
http://www.speedcooling.com/Mopar-Radiators/

I am looking into this company.....
I have a 1972 Duster with a 26" so I am going with the
http://www.speedcooling.com/26-Small-Block-Mopar-Radiator.html

His is a little note :

This it our all new aluminum radiator for the 1967 - 1974 Mopar Small Block Cars that use the 26" large radiator. Like all of our radiators, it's made with proven 2-rows of 1.0" tubes that is proven to out cool 3-row and 4-row aluminum radiators by a substantial amount. Buying the wrong radiator that can't adequately cool your motor in extreme summer conditions can cost you engine damage that you'll pay for many times over the cost of the radiator. So why burn your money on a gimmick radiator when you can have the real deal?

- LIFETIME WARRANTY.

- Buffed die formed tanks to give your ride the vintage style with modern high efficiency cooling technology.

- All aluminum construction with a heavy duty 2-row core with 1.0" tubes (not a 3-row gimmick making outrageous 1000HP cooling claims). Beware of gimmick 2-rows with 1 row of 1.0" tubes and a second row of 1/2" tubes! MOST other 2-rows on Ebay are only 2-rows of 3/4" tubes, not 2-rows of 1.0" tubes!

- Heavy duty transmission cooler.

- Billet CNC machined filler neck. A new cap is included.

- Fully TIG welded construction with no epoxy.

- Upper hose connection is 1-1/2", lower is 1-3/4"

- Core dimensions are 17-1/8" high x 26.0" tall. Overall dimensions 29-1/8" wide x 23-1/8" high including the cap

The radiators are buffed exactly as shown. The pictures shown are as-is out of the box. Please note it is not a full show quality trailer queen mirror finish polish but can be taken to that level with a minimum amount of finishing.
 
Sounds like so much market-ese to me LOL. A 3 row, 22" wide has about 25% more tube area than the same height 2 row, 26" wide. The 3 row's disadvantage is that the 3rd row is not as effective as the the 1st 2 rows at low speeds and idle, since the air temp is higher by the time it reaches the 3rd row.
 
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