Rebuild 318 or go Crate

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Fitz68

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I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on getting my 68 Dart 318 road worthy and am having trouble deciding on whether to rebuild the 318 or replace with a crate engine. I was really trying to keep my costs this year to $6k...but it seems like this may be unrealistic with the goals I have. I'll use the car for street driving and am considering making it a daily driver. Although I'd like to do more of the work myself, I don't have a garage large enough to house the car and tools with space left to work. (1960's house) So I would doing most of the work outside under canopy, which wouldn't be very clean. My objectives right now are as follows...I was hoping some of you could weigh in given your experience...thanks in advance!

- Improve output to >300HP
- Upgrade brakes with hydratech boost running off PS pump, with Disc in the front (will upgrade from 5 x 4 bolt pattern to 5 x 4.5)
- Upgrade wheels and tires (17x7/18x8)

I live in St. Pete, which is an older community with some pretty good machine shops around...so I first started with seeing how much a rebuild would be. I found a machine shop called Pyramid, which will do the rebuild for $2k. This seemed pretty reasonable so I started looking into the mods I would want to make in order to achieve the output I'm looking for (>300HP)

- Engine Rebuild - $2000
- New Intake (Dual Plane Air Gap RPM) - $259
- New Heads (Aluminum Edelbrock) - 2 * $800
- New Carb (Edelbrock 600CFM) - $300
- Headers - $750
- Dual Exhaust - $748
- New Cam - $200
- Electronic Ignition - $236

Total: $6093 (before upgrading brakes: $850 for hydratech, $800 for disc brake conversion)

Of course there's all the unforeseen costs...like taking the Engine out and putting it back in...and I would try to work with the machine shop to include installation of the upgraded components as part of the rebuild since they won't have to touch the heads, etc.

The alternative to all this would be go for a crate motor...which it seems after searching for a few weeks that I won't be able to get a turn-key solution for less than $5k. The benefit seems to be I would have a dnyo-tested engine with warranty that should work right out of the box. It would also give me the opportunity to upgrade to a large CI..such as 360. However a crate engine plus the headers and exhaust would put me way over budget for this year and it seems sometimes it can be hit or miss depending on the company you use. One last dart I'm throwing today is to stop by Napa to see how much their crate engines are.

I suppose another option is to just have the machine shop do the engine rebuild and drive the stock 318 around as is for awhile while taking care of the brakes, wheels, etc. I wouldn't be able to work on the exhaust though if I wanted to upgrade the size of the block anytime soon. I appreciate any feedback you have!

Oh, one other thing--if I upgrade to disc brakes in the front and get to a 5x4.5 bolt pattern, anyone have any idea on how I can get the rear from 5x4 up to 5x4.5 as well so I can buy wheels that are all 4.5 bolt pattern without having to upgrade the rear end right now?
 
(To early to read the whole thing....)

You do not need the Edelbrock heads to make 300 HP nor the expensive dual exhaust to make power unless a new clean finished in superior look is needed for some reason. You can cut that figure down to approx. $250 with exhaust from Summit/Jeg's.

Take the engine and Trans out yourself togther.
Axles from Dr. Diff can be purchased with the larger bolt pattern.
Tti has head down pipes that you can use as well.
 
You really need to try and do as much as you can yourself if possible. Meaning brakes and suspension. I believe you can build the 318 or pick up a 360 and have a nice rebuild done for inespensive. When you say
you are in St. Pete. Do you mean St. Pete. FL. ???? BTW Welcome to the site.
 
If you go machine shop buy your own parts on line, they're less expensive and not marked up by the shop.
when I was in this same situation 6 months ago I found the 318 "more" expensive to rebuild than a 360, because thats what everyone does so parts less expensive.
agreed x2 on the headers - unless it's a looks thing you'll probably never see a hp advantage with $750 headers. The Eddie heads - well i want some too- for my drag car. some properly rebuilt 360 heads ($600-700) on a properly built 360 should EASILY give you that 300+ hp your search for.
Be careful of the "snowball effect" at the machine shop - one good part leads to another !
Also remember all of the expenses and the stress of the expenses will all be completely forgotten when all is said and done and you mash that gas pedal, the tires light up, your pinned back in your seat, and you looked over at your wife and she's holding on for dear life with a complete look of terror on her face!!
after that you'll never remember a cent you spent.
what size rearend do you have ?
 
If it was me I'd start with the $6K, and work backwards. You need brakes. You need wheels. You do not "need" hydroboost but yes - it's a fun option to have assuming you have the rotors behind the new blingy wheels. $6000-$1650=$4350. You'll need an alignment too - $150. Wheels/tires/lugnuts? - $2000. You're down to $2200 but it runs and drives and looks cool. So - for the 318... Go find any year running Magnum 5.2L under 80K miles - $400. Buy the RPM Air gap, carb, and air cleaner - $600. Gaskets to swap over the parts and add the fuel pump drive to the camshaft - $200. With the last $1000 have a nice 2.5" exhaust bent up for it with decent mufflers.

The 5.2L Magnum will be close to 275hp as spec'd there. If you want more go with the 5.9L magnum if you can find one cheaply but you'll also need the B&M conversion flexplate for it. That engine will be a touch over 300hp in that form in your car.

With your next $200 buy the ignition recurve kit and a shift kit for it and go have fun.
 
moper said:
If it was me I'd start with the $6K, and work backwards. You need brakes. You need wheels. You do not "need" hydroboost but yes - it's a fun option to have assuming you have the rotors behind the new blingy wheels. $6000-$1650=$4350. You'll need an alignment too - $150. Wheels/tires/lugnuts? - $2000. You're down to $2200 but it runs and drives and looks cool. So - for the 318... Go find any year running Magnum 5.2L under 80K miles - $400. Buy the RPM Air gap, carb, and air cleaner - $600. Gaskets to swap over the parts and add the fuel pump drive to the camshaft - $200. With the last $1000 have a nice 2.5" exhaust bent up for it with decent mufflers.

The 5.2L Magnum will be close to 275hp as spec'd there. If you want more go with the 5.9L magnum if you can find one cheaply but you'll also need the B&M conversion flexplate for it. That engine will be a touch over 300hp in that form in your car.

With your next $200 buy the ignition recurve kit and a shift kit for it and go have fun.
Click to expand...
:cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers:
 
moper said:
If it was me I'd start with the $6K, and work backwards. You need brakes. You need wheels. You do not "need" hydroboost but yes - it's a fun option to have assuming you have the rotors behind the new blingy wheels. $6000-$1650=$4350. You'll need an alignment too - $150. Wheels/tires/lugnuts? - $2000. You're down to $2200 but it runs and drives and looks cool. So - for the 318... Go find any year running Magnum 5.2L under 80K miles - $400. Buy the RPM Air gap, carb, and air cleaner - $600. Gaskets to swap over the parts and add the fuel pump drive to the camshaft - $200. With the last $1000 have a nice 2.5" exhaust bent up for it with decent mufflers.

The 5.2L Magnum will be close to 275hp as spec'd there. If you want more go with the 5.9L magnum if you can find one cheaply but you'll also need the B&M conversion flexplate for it. That engine will be a touch over 300hp in that form in your car.

With your next $200 buy the ignition recurve kit and a shift kit for it and go have fun.
Click to expand...

Can't argue with that. I can say if you have to get 2000 dollars in wheels and tires our taste probably differs a little, but I don't like to see the same thing every time either.
 
moper said:
If it was me I'd start with the $6K, and work backwards. You need brakes. You need wheels. You do not "need" hydroboost but yes - it's a fun option to have assuming you have the rotors behind the new blingy wheels. $6000-$1650=$4350. You'll need an alignment too - $150. Wheels/tires/lugnuts? - $2000. You're down to $2200 but it runs and drives and looks cool. So - for the 318... Go find any year running Magnum 5.2L under 80K miles - $400. Buy the RPM Air gap, carb, and air cleaner - $600. Gaskets to swap over the parts and add the fuel pump drive to the camshaft - $200. With the last $1000 have a nice 2.5" exhaust bent up for it with decent mufflers.

The 5.2L Magnum will be close to 275hp as spec'd there. If you want more go with the 5.9L magnum if you can find one cheaply but you'll also need the B&M conversion flexplate for it. That engine will be a touch over 300hp in that form in your car.

With your next $200 buy the ignition recurve kit and a shift kit for it and go have fun.
Click to expand...

X2 :burnout:
 
Fitz68 said:
I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on getting my 68 Dart 318 road worthy and am having trouble deciding on whether to rebuild the 318 or replace with a crate engine. ?
Click to expand...

Right off the bat, consider a couple items, resale and performance. Both will be diminished with that 318. You are better off with a crate engine or a build of larger displacement, especially if it is to be a daily driver or street car. Remember 300hp will become milder and more street friendly as the cubic inches go up.

6,000 won't get you far in this game as you are coming to realize. Keep in mind selling parts you have on hand can offset some of those costs. For instance I sold my complete front end for 1,500. My new on e was 4,990. Net cost 3,490.

300 hp is a reasonable expectation, even for the 318.

You don't need hydroboost. Run the factory setup or better yet run manuall brakes with a 7/8" piston. AKA, poor man's power brakes.

If you are going to upgrade to 4.5" bolt pattern you'll need new rear brakes anyway. Spend your money once and get rear discs.

In my opinion, and it's just that, an opinion, I believe the 67-69's look best with 4 wheels all the way around of the same size. Ex, all 17's etc. I like a stagger, just not on A bodies.


Great intake - New Intake (Dual Plane Air Gap RPM) - $259
Great heads - New Heads (Aluminum Edelbrock RPM) - 2 * $800
Go with a holley based carb- New Carb (Edelbrock 600CFM) - $300
TTI is a good choice just keep them INSIDE the fenders..- Headers - $750
2.5 or 3" I'd just go 3". TTI makes good stuff. Get an "X"pipe - Dual Exhaust - $748
Any ideas with this? - New Cam - $200
MSD or the like I hope...- Electronic Ignition - $236

Of course there's all the unforeseen costs...Many.. but you can take the engine out and put it in right in a driveway.

If the stock 318 runs, the option of driving that while working on other things isn't a bad idea. YOU CAN upgrade your exhaust. You could even install headers so long as you stay with an LA engine.

To upgrade the rear to 4.5" you need to buy new axles or have yours re-drilled. FOr the cost of aftermarket axles these days and how sketchy it is to have yours re-drilled go with new.
 
5.9 MAGNUMS SHOW UP FOR LIKE $500 with 100K miles. Should be less at a U-pull yard Hook it up with a Mega Squirt and you have a nice driver with your 300 hp with fuel injection for less than 2K total
Pretty much agree with MOPAR, just would keep the fuel injection. Need a high pressure pump at or in tank and upgrade fuel line.
 
My 80K mile 360 Magnum still has excellent cross hair marks in the cylinders.
Purchase a junk yard (low mileage if possible) Magnum 360, add a cam and headers, you'll have 300+ HP that will cruise right well.
Add electric fuel pump and a B&M flex plate to ru. A natural balanced comverter and your basically done.
 
You guys sure disrespect the 318. NOTHING wrong with it. 300 hp ? no problem. Just saying. And you will say "might as well build a 360, it will cost the same" NOT true. Now the magnum is a good idea.
 
j par said:
Can't argue with that. I can say if you have to get 2000 dollars in wheels and tires our taste probably differs a little, but I don't like to see the same thing every time either.
Click to expand...

I'm not into the big wheels and tires on the earlier cars - but some are and they aren't cheap. I installed 12 & 13" brakes on an Ebody, with the hydroboost, and 18s with Nitto rubber... The parts bill alone was 5 figures. But, it did stop on a dime and has pulled beyond 1g on the skidpad. Whatever floats your boat.
 
Mopar Tim said:
You guys sure disrespect the 318. NOTHING wrong with it. 300 hp ? no problem. Just saying. And you will say "might as well build a 360, it will cost the same" NOT true. Now the magnum is a good idea.
Click to expand...

Make sure you view my old thread, 318 on the cheap a few years back where I did a bone stock 31 powered Duster with just bolt on parts and a cam. Just to show the nay sayers that a 318 can perform on the cheap. While the first outing wasn't much, it did pick up well after fine tuning and wider rubber.
 
DFX 340 Duster said:
I always had this article in the back of my mind when figuring out what to do with the 318 that someone put in my 340 Duster. I was going to go this route until I finally found a 340 for a resonable price.
Click to expand...

Isn't that the one that blew up when they sprayed it??:D:D

400 h.p. for $1500.00 ya right someones "fudging" the numbers on that dyno..
 
Thanks everyone for the feedback! Yep, I'm in St.Pete FL. It seems like I might be better off getting discs all around(I'm still gonna try for hydro boost) and getting the wheels and tires on there. I have to admit, all you guys with thousands of posts and conflicting opinions have my head swimming at the moment...so many paths forward! I really want to do as much of the work myself as I can so I can increase my knowledge, yet space and tools are an issue. Also--I don't know how much of an appetite I have for spending even more money fixing my mistakes. Those of you defending the 318--what did you do that made it what you wanted? I mean--enough to keep it over going up to 340/360? I've studied that rebuild post for $1500 a few times over the past month--I just don't feel its realistic without knowing exactly what to look for and how to troubleshoot used parts and issues.
 
moper said:
If it was me I'd start with the $6K, and work backwards. You need brakes. You need wheels. You do not "need" hydroboost but yes - it's a fun option to have assuming you have the rotors behind the new blingy wheels. $6000-$1650=$4350. You'll need an alignment too - $150. Wheels/tires/lugnuts? - $2000. You're down to $2200 but it runs and drives and looks cool. So - for the 318... Go find any year running Magnum 5.2L under 80K miles - $400. Buy the RPM Air gap, carb, and air cleaner - $600. Gaskets to swap over the parts and add the fuel pump drive to the camshaft - $200. With the last $1000 have a nice 2.5" exhaust bent up for it with decent mufflers.

The 5.2L Magnum will be close to 275hp as spec'd there. If you want more go with the 5.9L magnum if you can find one cheaply but you'll also need the B&M conversion flexplate for it. That engine will be a touch over 300hp in that form in your car.

With your next $200 buy the ignition recurve kit and a shift kit for it and go have fun.
Click to expand...

Excellent , laid out plan. Exactly, what I would do.
 
See my responses below.


Fitz68 said:
I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on getting my 68 Dart 318 road worthy and am having trouble deciding on whether to rebuild the 318 or replace with a crate engine. I was really trying to keep my costs this year to $6k...but it seems like this may be unrealistic with the goals I have. I'll use the car for street driving and am considering making it a daily driver. Although I'd like to do more of the work myself, I don't have a garage large enough to house the car and tools with space left to work. (1960's house) So I would doing most of the work outside under canopy, which wouldn't be very clean. My objectives right now are as follows...I was hoping some of you could weigh in given your experience...thanks in advance!

- Improve output to >300HP
- Upgrade brakes with hydratech boost running off PS pump, with Disc in the front (will upgrade from 5 x 4 bolt pattern to 5 x 4.5)
- Upgrade wheels and tires (17x7/18x8)

I live in St. Pete, which is an older community with some pretty good machine shops around...so I first started with seeing how much a rebuild would be. I found a machine shop called Pyramid, which will do the rebuild for $2k. This seemed pretty reasonable so I started looking into the mods I would want to make in order to achieve the output I'm looking for (>300HP)

- Engine Rebuild - $2000
- New Intake (Dual Plane Air Gap RPM) - $259

For a 300 HP engine? Are you serious? TOTALLY not necessary. Hawk Ebay for a used Edelbrock performer or STOCK 340/360 intake. MUCH money saved.


- New Heads (Aluminum Edelbrock) - 2 * $800

Again, for a 300 HP engine? Please stop reading all the magazines and forums. Stone stock iron heads wil support that and then some. More money saved.

- New Carb (Edelbrock 600CFM) - $300

New carburetor good choice. New Street Demon 650 better choice.



- Headers - $750

For real? For a 300 HP build? Stone STOCK 50 buck 318 manifolds will support 350 HP. Maybe more. Yet even more money saved.



- Dual Exhaust - $748

From what muffler shop? Give me the name and address so I can tell people to steer clear. Check Summit out. They have kits way cheaper.

- New Cam - $200

Not bad for cam AND lifters. Something close to the stock 340 cam here.

- Electronic Ignition - $236

The Mopar Ignition? Probably a great choice!

Total: $6093 (before upgrading brakes: $850 for hydratech, $800 for disc brake conversion)

Disc brakes another smart choice! More go is useless without more whoa! But hydroboost? Good GAWD! Put down the magazines! It's not a truck!

Of course there's all the unforeseen costs...like taking the Engine out and putting it back in...and I would try to work with the machine shop to include installation of the upgraded components as part of the rebuild since they won't have to touch the heads, etc.

The alternative to all this would be go for a crate motor...which it seems after searching for a few weeks that I won't be able to get a turn-key solution for less than $5k. The benefit seems to be I would have a dnyo-tested engine with warranty that should work right out of the box. It would also give me the opportunity to upgrade to a large CI..such as 360. However a crate engine plus the headers and exhaust would put me way over budget for this year and it seems sometimes it can be hit or miss depending on the company you use. One last dart I'm throwing today is to stop by Napa to see how much their crate engines are.

I suppose another option is to just have the machine shop do the engine rebuild and drive the stock 318 around as is for awhile while taking care of the brakes, wheels, etc. I wouldn't be able to work on the exhaust though if I wanted to upgrade the size of the block anytime soon. I appreciate any feedback you have!

Oh, one other thing--if I upgrade to disc brakes in the front and get to a 5x4.5 bolt pattern, anyone have any idea on how I can get the rear from 5x4 up to 5x4.5 as well so I can buy wheels that are all 4.5 bolt pattern without having to upgrade the rear end right now?
Click to expand...
 
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