Reducing oil to the camshaft?

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Cope

Cope

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anyone here got thoughts on reducing oil falling on the cam?

Im interested in oiling mods such as chamfering the man oil drains in the valley pan so that oil runs back along the under side of the main valley drains as to not introduce air into the oil by falling directly on the cam shaft.

covering the main oil drains in the valley with screen and drilling oil drain holes in the depressions near the lifters?

I realise the cam bearing are not fead by direct (high pressure) oil injection and need oil for lubrication and pulling heat off the cam.


Firesuit and Nomex jockys on.

Thanks again for all the time and advice.
 
I don't think there's a lot of windage involved with the camshaft. It is pretty small in diameter. I would want all the oil on it I could get. The crankshaft windage from the oil pan is where most of aeration comes from.
 
Has anyone tried this type of thing?

This is the race sectiotion so....lets think outside the box.
 
Yeah run the cam dry. Sounds like a good outside the box idea.
 
I know folks run no cooling to the heads.

I know the entire block is full of oil in suspension, windage tray or not.

I do not know how much oil the cam needs in a full out race motor.

Do you?
 
You failed to mention what engine and type cam.
 
You spoke of screens in the intake valley. I remember commenting on another thread, those are not to keep oil off the camshaft. They are to keep broken valve train components from falling any further into the engine. Oil will still go through screen.

I know lots of people restrict oil to the top end in order to increase oil to the main and rod bearings. I've never thought this was a good idea either. Just run an adequate oil pump and you will have plenty of oil.

To answer your question, yes, I have experience with it. I used to race almost every weekend from when I was a junior in high school until I was about 30. Got into the nine second bracket with our car. We never restricted oil anywhere. We did basic oiling mods like enlarging the pickup tube galley to the hemi size and running the hemi pickup as well as enlarging some of the other galleys, but we never restricted anything. never had any problem.

Like everything else, people do things different ways so you'll get lots of different answers.
 
Cope said:
Has anyone tried this type of thing?

This is the race sectiotion so....lets think outside the box.
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there's thinking outside the box and restrictions of oil to the cam is wayyyyyyyyy outside the box ! !
I have taken lots of triple-R's advice (more than I like to admit!) and most of our head butting has been over outside the box stuff. But have you lost your marbles ?!? Restricting oil to the cam !?!
Ask anyone or look at my old threads - I got a PHD in spending money (that I don't have) twice mostly because I think outside the box. Restrict oil to the cam and let me know how that works for ya....
 
Listen to RRR and the others, that's not a good idea at all. The camshaft lobes are one of the biggest sources of friction, and they need a constant bath of oil for lube, AND for cooling. And yes I personally have a LOT of experience in these areas, I circle track raced for years with small block mopars and built my own engines, I tried all sorts of tricks over the years. You will gain ALOT more by controlling windage in the crankshaft area, and there is a fair amount of HP in getting the oil level farther from the crankshaft.
 
So, maybe I'm all screwed up eh?

Control the oil that is used to lube the cam and reroute the oil from the rocker arms so it doesn't run down onto the crankshaft. Get whatever extra oil you think you need from EDM holes in the lifters or grooving the lifter bores and remember that the camshaft is also lubed by oil splash from the crankshaft. Some aftermarket blocks don't even have pressurized oil going to the the lifters on solid lifter cams.

Excess oil from the rocker arms falling on the cam and down to the crankshaft is lost horsepower as the crank has to pound it's way through that oil. Hello crank scrapers! There is plenty enough oil splash to lube the lifters from above and the cam lobes from below. The oil passage along the lifter bores in factory blocks is because they need oil for the hydraulic lifters. The more oil you pour over the cam, the more falls on the crank and the more horsepower you lose. I just prelubed with the intake manifold off and ended up restricting the oil from pressure lubed roller lifters because there was so much oil flowing from the lifters I couldn't even see the camshaft.

But hey, that's me. Ya'll do whatever you want.
 
But what RPM are you talking about, Jim? Are you saying we are going to lose HP from idle to 5500 in a street engine from oil falling on the cam and crank from above?

That sounds like splittin hairs to me. Maybe at 6K on up I can understand.

But.......you ARE the one with the dyno.
 
Well this one thing I know;
-After I did the oiling mods on my 360, you know drilling out certain passages and porting the oil passages, etc.,the 1999 Eddies I had on there, pooled a lot of oil on top of the heads. An awful lot.Well I admit, that after the first year of operation, evidence suggested that I needed more oil clearance between the Mopar aluminum 1.6 arms and the adjoining hold-downs. So I dialed in a hair more.So what to do with all this oil?Then I had this bright idea; I will lead the top end oil to the back, (cuz the engine is lower back there anyway), and let it drizzle down that big open space back there. So I pulled out the carbides and made it happen.
Then I flatted a cam. After the intake was off,I noticed that there was a lot of oil sitting in the little pockets beside and between every lifter. What to do with that?
Well,I remembered that, in every single engine I ever stripped out, that had run leaded gas, all those pockets were full of what appeared to be lead-polluted oil.Well, I didn't want MY engine to become gunked up like that. So, as to those pockets,I drilled a hole in every single one of them, so the oil could run down onto the cam, and maybe the lobes, and maybe I wouldn't lose another cam.And I haven't yet, in the intervening 12 years.So I guess I killed two birds with one stone there,eh.
Well knowing there was gonna be a lotta oil in motion, I figured a deep pan was gonna be a good idea.But not so good on a streeter;what to do? Well I tried to make a deeper pan by cutting and welding, making one out of two. And then I discovered that this was beyond my skill level, so I pitched 'em. About that time I found that Milodon had a 7qt roadrace pan that might just fit in there. I bought one and made it fit(easy enough). Then I had another bright idea; Why not just run 5qts in that 7qt pan. So I poured 5 into the pan, and found that most of it went down into the sump, and well below the crank,Super-Duper. And that is how I have run it for 11 years or so.

And now, the thing I know.My engine lives.My car is a heavy beast.It is a very mild engine with a 230/110 cam,and the one time I tried it,that little 367 pulled it to 93 in the 1/8.Is that good? IDK, but good enough for me. So I don't think about what's going on inside it anymore. I just enjoy it .
 
Reducing oil "TO" the camshaft is somewhat different than controlling oil drainback to the pan. There would be a signifigant gain in getting the oil from the topend back to the pan without it getting to the crank. Perhaps I didn't understand your question correctly when I quickly read through it.
 
Left over ideas from Daddy and his days in NASCAR, but, I find it really hard to run in a swimming pool and my legs are going at a very low rpm.
 
IQ52 said:
Left over ideas from Daddy and his days in NASCAR, but, I find it really hard to run in a swimming pool and my legs are going at a very low rpm.
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That's a great comparison, but the intake valley and crankcase are not full like a pool. Do you really think it makes that big a difference?

I think it would be worth some dyno time to see.
 
I already mentioned the gains are signifigant if you reduce crankshaft windage. Camshaft windage, not so much. I don't think anybody listens...........
 
IQ52 said:
Left over ideas from Daddy and his days in NASCAR, but, I find it really hard to run in a swimming pool and my legs are going at a very low rpm.
Click to expand...

Apologies if in error Sir, from My limited knowledge, I thought 'windage' control was dependent upon CRANKCASE Cyl to Cyl pressure transfer & block prep = oil return path at running temp ?


Please do correct My observations if in error THX !
 
Thanks IQ52

I know you know your **** and seem to see what I am getting at.

I would be lying if I said I did not feal a.little validated.

I think I will give it a go.
 
Cope said:
Thanks IQ52

I know you know your **** and seem to see what I am getting at.

I would be lying if I said I did not feal a.little validated.

I think I will give it a go.
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oil in suspension, spinning around the crank, cyl. pressure has nothing to do w/ it .
 
Not to hijack, but how did ya restrict the oil from the rollers? I have a nice cam bath, too and it kind bugs me.
 
On solid roller lifters.

Some lifters it may require bushing the lifter bores and drilling a .030" hole in the bushing. Some lifters get the oil for the rollers from an EDM hole that is feed from a .250" hole that goes sideways through the lifter body. On those I cut a piece of steel tube longer than the hole, but not so long it hits the lifter bore, and swage the ends of the tube open to hold the tube into the lifter body. The tube is slightly smaller than the main .250" hole and still allows some oil to the roller.
 
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