Remote Water Pump for Small Block questions

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69fury

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I love the tech you guys share on this board. I have an issue that i'm trying to research. I'd like to run a frame mounted remote water pump and need direction to the block off plate that the water lines would connect to.

Also- after thinking about this for a while, maybe i dont need a plate to attach fittings to. Has anyone seen the timing cover water passages tapped for fittings? I dont have one loose to measure but maybe it's close a fairly common size of pipe thread?

Two 90degree elbows out of the timing cover and no mech pump would really save a ton of room....

Thanks in advance,
-Rick
 
76orangewagon did this (20teens) and I asked him about the plate. He made two 1/2" thick adapter plates that could be tapped for coolant hose fittings and used them over the block off plate. I haven't seen him her in a while.
 
69fury said:
I love the tech you guys share on this board. I have an issue that i'm trying to research. I'd like to run a frame mounted remote water pump and need direction to the block off plate that the water lines would connect to.

Also- after thinking about this for a while, maybe i dont need a plate to attach fittings to. Has anyone seen the timing cover water passages tapped for fittings? I dont have one loose to measure but maybe it's close a fairly common size of pipe thread?

Two 90degree elbows out of the timing cover and no mech pump would really save a ton of room....

Thanks in advance,
-Rick
Click to expand...
Instead of, say, a 1/4" plate? I don't see it. The timing cover is a weak sister, and you will have to bore it to whatever thread you want to use. If you want 90's and want to point them a certain way, use O ring boss for the timing cover end. You will have to chamfer the holes for the O rings tho.

You could also use steel JIC fittings, which are same flare and thread as AN, and brase / silver braze a couple in at whatever angle you want them to sit. That would eliminate problems with pipe thread
 
What car? Is this for a turbo or supercharger application? If not, then it's probably not worth the effort or expense. As an in between option, you could get an electric water pump which eliminates the pulley and belt.

But to answer your question - perhaps the image below would give you an idea? This is a small block engine plate that AR Engineering sells. Far as I know, he does not specifically sell the water pump adapters but maybe you could ask him (AndyF) about them. If you are trying to use the stock timing cover with fittings like shown below, you'll obviously have to get creative.

AR361-Custom.jpg
 
In the spirit of this^^^^^^^. These are the plates I was given by 76orangewagon . I was going to use a pump gasket as a template for the 3/8" block off plate. These would be drilled larger and tapped for 90 degree fittings. Mounted as pictured above and plumbed to a dual outlet pump. His install on his car was extremely well done

20230926_190749.jpg


20230926_190732.jpg
 
If your using a top down radiator I would think it wouldn't be as effective. Crossflow I would try it.
 
I just remembered that Meziere makes this backing plate to use with their electric water pumps. In a way you'd almost need it or something like it. Not sure if it's thick enough to tap for pipe threads. If not, one would have to figure out how to seal whatever fittings you use to the water passages but this piece might be a good place to start.

WP115-for-web.jpg
 
rmchrgr said:
What car? Is this for a turbo or supercharger application? If not, then it's probably not worth the effort or expense. As an in between option, you could get an electric water pump which eliminates the pulley and belt.

But to answer your question - perhaps the image below would give you an idea? This is a small block engine plate that AR Engineering sells. Far as I know, he does not specifically sell the water pump adapters but maybe you could ask him (AndyF) about them. If you are trying to use the stock timing cover with fittings like shown below, you'll obviously have to get creative.

View attachment 1716146547
Click to expand...
That is actually more of what i need than i even realized. I intend on running a motor plate and the ones i've seen have a cutout for the stock water pump. This one would just require a stock pump gasket and the fittings. I will try to get ahold of them to source those fittings. Although the pic of the bare plate shows that i could possibly just put the fittings right on those holes in between the bolts. Thanks!

Question- does anything need to be done to ensure the flow is even into the 2 banks of the engine? A divider wall epoxied/welded down the center of the timing cover? Or will it just work itself out based on pressure? (related: can you run the output of the electric remote pump into a Y block and have it split close enough to 50/50?)
 
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68cuda408 said:
In the spirit of this^^^^^^^. These are the plates I was given by 76orangewagon . I was going to use a pump gasket as a template for the 3/8" block off plate. These would be drilled larger and tapped for 90 degree fittings. Mounted as pictured above and plumbed to a dual outlet pump. His install on his car was extremely well done

View attachment 1716146741

View attachment 1716146742
Click to expand...
were you going to bolt these over the block off plate? Are the center holes on that big enough for proper flow of a water pump? i know the timing cover water passages are big, but cant remember how big the block passages are. I suppose i'd just compare the ID to that of a -16AN fitting to see if they are in the ball park.


Question- does anything need to be done to ensure the flow is even into the 2 banks of the engine? A divider wall epoxied/welded down the center of the timing cover? Or will it just work itself out based on pressure? (related: can you run the output of the electric remote pump into a Y block and have it split close enough to 50/50?)
 
rmchrgr said:
I just remembered that Meziere makes this backing plate to use with their electric water pumps. In a way you'd almost need it or something like it. Not sure if it's thick enough to tap for pipe threads. If not, one would have to figure out how to seal whatever fittings you use to the water passages but this piece might be a good place to start.

View attachment 1716146790
Click to expand...
i wasn't sure of it's thickness being stiff enough to support itself without being bolted to the electric pump it goes with. Would certainly make things simpler, yes? The AREngineering block plate shown earlier wants this attached to space out from the timing cover for mechanical fuel pump clearance, but i may not bother since it can be easily clearanced or swapped for tank mounted fuel pump.
 
68cuda408 said:
If your using a top down radiator I would think it wouldn't be as effective. Crossflow I would try it;
Click to expand...

68cuda408 said:
If your using a top down radiator I would think it wouldn't be as effective. Crossflow I would try it.
Click to expand...
according to BeCool radiators and others, as long as the square inches of the cores are equal as well as the size and numbers of rows, crossflow vs top down doesn't matter....

as long as all that other stuff is same-same....
 
69fury said:
That is actually more of what i need than i even realized. I intend on running a motor plate and the ones i've seen have a cutout for the stock water pump. This one would just require a stock pump gasket and the fittings. I will try to get ahold of them to source those fittings. Although the pic of the bare plate shows that i could possibly just put the fittings right on those holes in between the bolts. Thanks!

Question- does anything need to be done to ensure the flow is even into the 2 banks of the engine? A divider wall epoxied/welded down the center of the timing cover? Or will it just work itself out based on pressure? (related: can you run the output of the electric remote pump into a Y block and have it split close enough to 50/50?)
Click to expand...
I've had a bunch of Andy's stuff over the years. I'd bet he would have machined the backs of the fittings for an o-ring but I don't know for sure since as far as I can tell, he does not sell the adapter blocks. The blue -16 fittings you can get anywhere but they're obviously useless if there is nowhere to thread them into. Here's a link to the motor plate.

I'd do your own research but I don't think there is any reason to be concerned with coolant distribution with a remote pump. I certainly wouldn't create an obstacle to flow. The only thing different with a remote pump is that it's not attached to the front of the block but the coolant path should be the same.
 
69fury said:
were you going to bolt these over the block off plate? Are the center holes on that big enough for proper flow of a water pump? i know the timing cover water passages are big, but cant remember how big the block passages are. I suppose i'd just compare the ID to that of a -16AN fitting to see if they are in the ball park.


Question- does anything need to be done to ensure the flow is even into the 2 banks of the engine? A divider wall epoxied/welded down the center of the timing cover? Or will it just work itself out based on pressure? (related: can you run the output of the electric remote pump into a Y block and have it split close enough to 50/50?)
Click to expand...
Yes,over the plate. Just as if you had a motorplate like in the post#4 pic. The ports can be drilled and tapped to a desired size. No, the factory water pump doesn't have dividers. Yes a Y will work fine, the water will go where it can.
 
69fury said:
according to BeCool radiators and others, as long as the square inches of the cores are equal as well as the size and numbers of rows, crossflow vs top down doesn't matter....

as long as all that other stuff is same-same....
Click to expand...
If I read correctly, you were considering running the electric pump as suction from the water pump inlet to the bottom of the radiator. I was taught that radiators are hot top(inlet) and cool down(outlet) due to thermodynamics. Crossflows work the same, but I don't see how putting the "hot" outlet at the bottom is beneficial. I get reverse flow in the block, but not the radiator. I could be wrong.....
 
How about reversing it. Instead of draw from the engine, draw from the radiator.
 
68cuda408 said:
If I read correctly, you were considering running the electric pump as suction from the water pump inlet to the bottom of the radiator. I was taught that radiators are hot top(inlet) and cool down(outlet) due to thermodynamics. Crossflows work the same, but I don't see how putting the "hot" outlet at the bottom is beneficial. I get reverse flow in the block, but not the radiator. I could be wrong.....
Click to expand...
no, i was not interested in doing it backwards or reverse flow like someone else had mentioned. it would be easy to reverse flow an engine, but i'm leary of it on castings that weren't designed for it. No need to try in my instance, anyway.
 
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