SBM Edelbrock/Speedmaster Head Data

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So look at the fps #'s in the middle of the pinch from .550 to .600 and .650...it's slowing down. Actually, backing up! Those speeds (flowing at 28") are WAY too fast. I would really try to get the speed down at the pinch. I know everyone is talking about pinch not a problem, but once you have the port moving or trying to move good air, speeds both local and avg. will make or break the port.
And look at the flow on the floor of the apex, it's slowing down with more lift...very bad! And way way too fast! The port is very out of balance like a crank that's never been balanced...put it on a machine and watch how bad it can be!
One thing I do with eddy heads and SM heads when I'm using a 2.055 valve, looking for 290'ish cfm, is leave the guide boss alone on the front side. It looks ugly, but it stabilizes the air above .550 lift. At least with my porting + valve job + chamber it does. Your dip is coming from way to fast air speed. The valve job + chamber your using may be causing some of this. This is the epoxied chamber/bowl and 50°?
As always, thank you for taking the time to give your perspective. I recognize the speed over the apex is way to fast, but so far enlarging the pinch has only made it faster. In my experience increasing the height of the pinch doesn't help much, it's more width that is needed. I have another port in this same head with a relocated pushrod pinch. I'll spend some more time on that one.

And you are correct, this is the port with the 50 deg seats and the epoxied chamber.
 
That is something I need to try. I've seen pictures of a tubed bolt boss protruding well into the chamber. I think Brian even posted one here a while back.


The nice thing about the W5 is it doesn’t break through so no tube.

If the customer pays for it I tube the SM heads and the other chicom stuff.

It’s been my experience that having even a small bump like that will get you air buffeting off of it. It forces air away from it.

As air speeds go up and the air is attached to most of the port it makes the port (air column) much smaller there and it speeds up.

Once the air starts separating from that bolt boss…I think you know what happens next.

I always shoot for the least cross section changes I can get.
 
The nice thing about the W5 is it doesn’t break through so no tube.

If the customer pays for it I tube the SM heads and the other chicom stuff.

It’s been my experience that having even a small bump like that will get you air buffeting off of it. It forces air away from it.

As air speeds go up and the air is attached to most of the port it makes the port (air column) much smaller there and it speeds up.

Once the air starts separating from that bolt boss…I think you know what happens next.

I always shoot for the least cross section changes I can get.
That has been my objective as well. It only takes a few thousandths bump at high speed to create problems.
 
Wow its really hotting up in Speedmaster land!

So the port is 'too big' in the bowl area, and the pinch is kinda OK?

The large ski ramp just before the bowl looks bad to me, (head bolt kink) so I'm getting rid.
(Not going crazy just flattening it out, as its MASSIVE)!
I'm trying to contact the guys at the SM Rialto machine shop.

Maybe they can do a AAR/TA kinda Pushrod redrill, so we can go pinch point crazy!
Then the guys at PRW can get some AAR/TA offset rockers made too.

A 1-1/8'' x 2-1/4'' straight port (like Dulcich Eddy) will solve the SM head issues once and for all???
Widen the pushrod pinch to ''slow the flow''...

I just re-watched the MT Dulcich video and it made me laugh again, BAM 100 hp gain. (92 actually)
 
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Wow its really hotting up in Speedmaster land!

So the port is 'too big' in the bowl area, and the pinch is kinda OK?

The large ski ramp just before the bowl looks bad to me, (head bolt kink) so I'm getting rid.
(Not going crazy just flattening it out, as its MASSIVE)!
I'm trying to contact the guys at the SM Rialto machine shop.

Maybe they can do a AAR/TA kinda Pushrod redrill, so we can go pinch point crazy!
Then the guys at PRW can get some AAR/TA offset rockers made too.

A 1-1/8'' x 2-1/4'' straight port (like Dulcich Eddy) will solve the SM head issues once and for all???
Widen the pushrod pinch to ''slow the flow''...

I just re-watched the MT Dulcich video and it made me laugh again, BAM 100 hp gain. (92 actually)
Look up pittsburgracer's Speedmaster head threads. He showed how he was tubing the common wall head bolt hole and the pushrod hole so he could grind right up to it.
 
Look up pittsburgracer's Speedmaster head threads. He showed how he was tubing the common wall head bolt hole and the pushrod hole so he could grind right up to it.


I don't remember him tubing the bolt boss but that's my memory.

I always grind the boss down until I break through (assuming I need the area) and then I install the tube.
 
So the port is 'too big' in the bowl area, and the pinch is kinda OK?
On the factory CNC head that I bought last year, I felt the bowl and throat were too large for a 265-270 cfm port. The pinch can handle that much flow with a little cleanup.

A 1-1/8'' x 2-1/4'' straight port (like Dulcich Eddy) will solve the SM head issues once and for all???
Widen the pushrod pinch to ''slow the flow''...
Solve it? No. Still a lot of area needed at the apex and a short side to seriously re-work, especially if you are feeding a stroker motor.

And yes, PBR usually did 2 head bolt tubes and 4 push rod tubes.
 
PBR ain’t tube the bolt hole. I doubt that it’s needed. If it was, he would have done it. You can straighten that wall out really good and widen it though probably not needed.

Tubing the pushrod holes with a brass tube from K&S plumbing supplies I got at a ACE hardware store was an easy thing to do. Just mix up some JB Weld to keep it there and now you can widen the port to the brass. It’ll get pretty good doing that.
 
PBR ain’t tube the bolt hole. I doubt that it’s needed. If it was, he would have done it. You can straighten that wall out really good and widen it though probably not needed.

Tubing the pushrod holes with a brass tube from K&S plumbing supplies I got at a ACE hardware store was an easy thing to do. Just mix up some JB Weld to keep it there and now you can widen the port to the brass. It’ll get pretty good doing that.
This thread, mentioned in post 14 and picture in post 329.
Speedmaster Small block porting tips and results Part 1

This thread it's detailed again in posts 1 through seven with better pictures.
Speedmaster heads part 2. Plus intake work
 
If the bowl is too large then the rest of the port needs help to 'catch-up'?
2.080 valve was the 'Dulcich' mod too, on his mega heads.

But Edelbrock Victors are already AAR/TA offset pushrods, didn't know that.
Who makes the 1/4'' offset rockers then?

Can I mention Vizard and or Weslake as the Brits have done good work too.
''Small fast flowing ports are always better than big slow ports'', they say.
 
All I know is SM versus stock is PLUS 50cfm lol.

If some clever porting can get to 270 or 280 then I'm super happy.
Doing the complex seat mods isn't for a 'Fred in a shed' like me...

Half inch cam is fine for a street engine, who needs more for grocery getting?
Trickflow or Victors if you want to run real fast methinks...:poke:

SM v stock.jpg
 
There is no real 'need' to tube the head bolt holes. This casting will approach 300 cfm without the tube. That's enough flow to push the limits of a stock block anyway. But, in my experience, to get over 300 cfm more area is needed at the apex of the short turn. Tubing the head bolt hole allows for another 0.040" to 0.060" of width right where it's needed most.

There is a second benefit to tubing the hole, especially if porting by hand. It gives a reference point for width measurements. For each valve size (2.02, 2.055 and 2.08), PBR had width and height (area) measurements at the apex that he wanted to hit. Vertically he would reference off the deck. It's easy to get a digital caliper into the port from the chamber side and take a deck to port floor measurement. Horizontally, a reference point is needed. If the head bolt hole is tubed, you can grind all the way over to the brass tube and then use snap gages from there.
 
If the bowl is too large then the rest of the port needs help to 'catch-up'?
2.080 valve was the 'Dulcich' mod too, on his mega heads.
My statement is based on 1 SM factory CNC head that I purchased last year on Black Friday. In my opinion (which could be wrong), that one head had a throat that was way to large at 93% and a port volume that was a little too large for the 265-270 cfm that it flowed. It had a 2.02 valve. To get the throat to a more reasonable 90-90.5%, a 2.08 valve would need to be used. My guess is that a good 2.08 valve job on that head would get the flow into the 280s with little other work. That should put the port velocity into a little better range as well. I do not know if all SM CNC heads had the same specs as mine.

I'm not necessarily an advocate for a 2.08 valve in the SM head. It just seems like the best fix for the large throat in the head I have.
 
Here's some different test pressures and the valve turned upside down. I really thought the dip would go away at the lower test pressures. It did not. It's also interesting that the port flows more with the valve than without. Some people say they have never had it occur. I've seen it several times. Maybe it's just my screwed up methodology. Actually it's just the valve creating a floor to the flow zone and improving the pressure recovery in the chamber.

I also tried a 10-15 degree soft quench pad on the long side to try to deshroud the 0.600-0.700 lift area. Almost no change. I really thought it would help. Back to head scratching.

One last point. At 28 in, max flow before loss of the short turn (0.550 lift) is equal to the flow with the valve turned upside down. This means something. Not sure what, but it's a clue to something.
Yes, I discovered that ~32years ago, the valve changes from peripheral flow control to an airfoil/aerodynamic wing during the lift cycle...the critical point is different head-to-head, and will change in the same head depending on what You do to it. The valve is partially blocking excess negative pressure from dis-orienting the established directional flow. It's aerodynamics outside-in, but less predictable, & more complicated. Thx again for documenting Your testing.
Jim K6
 
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Can I quote DV as in the Wizard of Flow.

There is more suction just after the valve opens than at any other time.
Its generated by the exhaust gas leaving the cylinder.

Thus seat geometry is critical 'at that moment' and great wins or losses can be had.
PBR was always talking about seat angles and most folks just don't get it.

The SM head that Earlie-A has so 'delicately modified' is pure 'rocket science to most'.
We just need something more basic for 'Fred in his Shed, (like me) and many others.

Lets get on with some POLY porting NOW (please)
I'm going all LS on my Poly 402ci with this LSX fanimold.

LSX intake.jpg


LSX underside.jpg
 
Isn't the small block Edelbrock Victor designed for using a big block rocker arm?
That would seem like it would be the easy button to an offset rocker, but I'm not familiar with how far the stands or mounts would need to move in order to utilize the BBM rocker system.
 
That would seem like it would be the easy button to an offset rocker, but I'm not familiar with how far the stands or mounts would need to move in order to utilize the BBM rocker system.
Here is the note from the instruction sheet in the Edelbrock Victor Small block head, part number 61729. It says "big Block Mopar Wedge" and specifies minimum of .150" intake offset. if these keep showing up in stock maybe we will start to see more guys using them. I wish I had the funds to try them.

1733601107588.png
 
Can I quote DV as in the Wizard of Flow.

There is more suction just after the valve opens than at any other time.
Its generated by the exhaust gas leaving the cylinder.

Thus seat geometry is critical 'at that moment' and great wins or losses can be had.
PBR was always talking about seat angles and most folks just don't get it.

The SM head that Earlie-A has so 'delicately modified' is pure 'rocket science to most'.
We just need something more basic for 'Fred in his Shed, (like me) and many others.

Lets get on with some POLY porting NOW (please)
I'm going all LS on my Poly 402ci with this LSX fanimold.

View attachment 1716336612

View attachment 1716336614
Are you going to have to fabricate some adapter plates to fit the manifold to the heads? Are there issues with the manifold width? I know the bore spacings are slightly different.
 
My statement is based on 1 SM factory CNC head that I purchased last year on Black Friday. In my opinion (which could be wrong), that one head had a throat that was way to large at 93% and a port volume that was a little too large for the 265-270 cfm that it flowed. It had a 2.02 valve. To get the throat to a more reasonable 90-90.5%, a 2.08 valve would need to be used. My guess is that a good 2.08 valve job on that head would get the flow into the 280s with little other work. That should put the port velocity into a little better range as well. I do not know if all SM CNC heads had the same specs as mine.

I'm not necessarily an advocate for a 2.08 valve in the SM head. It just seems like the best fix for the large throat in the head I have.
EXACTLY... that's why I buy the SM heads bare, I dont want to try to fix there "cnc" job which is essentially a digitized copy of of not great porting job. Only my opinion, I'm not a pro head porter
 
Can I quote DV as in the Wizard of Flow.

There is more suction just after the valve opens than at any other time.
Its generated by the exhaust gas leaving the cylinder.

Thus seat geometry is critical 'at that moment' and great wins or losses can be had.
PBR was always talking about seat angles and most folks just don't get it.

The SM head that Earlie-A has so 'delicately modified' is pure 'rocket science to most'.
We just need something more basic for 'Fred in his Shed, (like me) and many others.

Lets get on with some POLY porting NOW (please)
I'm going all LS on my Poly 402ci with this LSX fanimold.

View attachment 1716336612

View attachment 1716336614
Respectively, you should start your own thread. This particular thread is about the speedmaster SBM head, and it's not helpful to muddy it up with a completely different head and engine combination
 
the valve changes from peripheral flow control to an airfoil/aerodynamic wing during the lift cycle...
Just taking a little time to read through this and think about it. Let's discuss this. I think things like this are key to making a port and chamber better.

I agree with the first part of the statement that early in the lift cycle the full perimeter of the valve is flowing well. That starts changing about 350-400 lift. At roughly the 0.25 x valve diameter point (give or take), the majority (but not all) of the flow shoots across the top of the valve. I would like to hear your thoughts on the airfoil/aerodynamic wing part of this statement.

The valve is partially blocking excess negative pressure from dis-orienting the established directional flow. It's aerodynamics outside-in, but less predictable, & more complicated.
This is the part I really want to discuss. It's my way of thinking that the valve is partially blocking POSITIVE pressure from re-directing the flow. That's what flow separation is. The flow separates from the short side and low velocity (higher pressure) air from inside the chamber pushes up against the high velocity (and low pressure) air stream, choking off part of the flow. Right at the valve seat on the SS air is actually traveling up the port in the opposite direction.
 
Quick reply to NC,

Earlie-A has some POLY heads lined up for his next job.
I was just pushing him on in that direction.

Back to SM heads.
I didn't read the 'all of' PBR thread cos its 25 pages.
I got to post 340 where he says ''my son doesn't do porting, but I hope he starts learning soon, before I die''...
At that point he sleeved his bolt holes and pushrod tubes so I stopped reading.
My interests in SM porting is for a street head with minimal porting.

But my POLY head will be all out porting like the Hinkles 426ci ''hemi-beater''
You don't see Poly stuff on A-bodies as they never had them...:mob:

Hinkles-426-poly-cam-and-lifters.jpg
 
Reply to Earlie-A,

Yes sandwich plates and lots of machining to both heads and LSX manifold.
Poly manifolds are rare and useless at BEST, so its time for LS stealing... :elmer:

''Why bother'' I hear you all say, we built a Gary Pavlovich 402ci Poly and have no decent intake (as yet).
The Hinkles have proved beyond a doubt that 600hp is possible with a 'boat anchor' Poly... :mob:

Why be a Lemming when you can be a Leader!:wtf:
All that is old is new again...(Johnathan Swift) cool name.
 
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