School me on Stock Eliminator?

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RE: Manual transmission rules for NHRA Stock Eliminator, 2009.

Here's the language ver batim, from the 2009 NHRA Rulebook:

"OEM or NHRA accepted aftermarket transmissions having same number of forward speeds (OD gear not required) and reverse, may be used. All gear changes must result from direct action by the driver. Pneumatic, electric, etc. shifters, prohibited. Floor shift conversion kits permitted. Clutchless transmissions prohibited.Clutch must be used to change gears in a conventional manner. See General Regulations 2:12."

It has come to my attention that not everybody actually uses the clutch to shift... but, if they're caught... it won't be pretty.

I have seen Jerico transmissions in Chevys in Stock... and it's a Ford Toploader-based transmission, so, I'd guess that it's legal in any brand of Stocker.8)
 
Thanks Bill. Gotta admit, I was too lazy to look it up. It's another reason Stock ain't what it used to be. I know that's ok, I just liked it as it was, and that's impossible to go back to. The nature of competition, and the progression of the auto industry makes things change, even if I don't like it! :toothy10:
 
Speed,

I started racing Stockers in 1956. I had a '49 Olds 88 that was the personification of "slow motion," If you looked up "sled" in the dictionary, there it was... 3.23 rear end, single exhaust, air cleaner and all... 72 mph, as I remember it... I can't remember ever outrunning anybody with it...

Back then, you had to run street tires, stock exhaust manifolds, stock cam, carb (with air cleaner bolted on TIGHT,) no traction bars of any kind... about the only thing you COULD do was put on dual exhaust.

Pure Stock was the order of the day, and there were FOUR (4) Stock classes; A, B, C, and D.... sticks and automatics ran together in the same class. No "Christmas Tree" (flag start only), with no handicaps, breakouts, reaction timers, two-steps, throttle stops, wheelie bars, headers, 90/10 shocks, rev limiters, hi-stall converters, Kool Cans, line locks, or MSD ignitions!

Drag racing a Stocker was CHEAP!!! No cash prizes for Stockers; trophys, only... and only 4 of them. If there were 90 Stockers there, they would probably have 25 in A Stock; 30 in B Stock, 20 in C Stock and 15 in D.

All racing was heads-up, and you ran just other cars in your "Class" to get your trophy. There was no Stock Eliminator. Everybody knew that the winner of A Stock was the baddest car there!!

After the regular racing program was over, the announcer invited anyone (spectators) who wanted to, to bring their family car to the starting line and see what it would do, or grudge race someone of their choice. This went on for a couple of hours... no charge.

THAT is grass roots drag racing, and a lot of people got their first taste of quarter mile drag racing that way. I think it was brilliant P.R.

That was 53 short years ago.... I remember it like it was yesterday...
 
Thanks for that, Bill. It sounds a bit like current grudge racing. I guess fewer cars being available then made it easier to police the rules? I can only imagine that "the nature of competition" has led Stock to where it is today. -The more NHRA allows, the easier it is to police. Back-cut rings, dipped heads, combinations created out of thin air, that's just the tip of the iceberg, as you know.
The partner I had on a D/SA '71 RR in the nineties started in the late 60's at Atco. He had a 65 Catalina w/ a 421, and he enjoyed getting every last bit out of the stock parts. That was always my attraction to it, too. Of course, it's too easy to modify stock stuff, and on a local basis (and divisional and national), we both know a lot of stockers weren't per the rules.
I started following it in 72ish, when the rules were no headers (open manifolds ok), no slicks. (I don't remember exactly) My neighbor had a 6pk RR that got me hooked on Stockers and Mopars!
 
Bill Dedman said:
Speed,

I started racing Stockers in 1956. I had a '49 Olds 88 that was the personification of "slow motion," If you looked up "sled" in the dictionary, there it was... 3.23 rear end, single exhaust, air cleaner and all... 72 mph, as I remember it... I can't remember ever outrunning anybody with it...

Back then, you had to run street tires, stock exhaust manifolds, stock cam, carb (with air cleaner bolted on TIGHT,) no traction bars of any kind... about the only thing you COULD do was put on dual exhaust.

Pure Stock was the order of the day, and there were FOUR (4) Stock classes; A, B, C, and D.... sticks and automatics ran together in the same class. No "Christmas Tree" (flag start only), with no handicaps, breakouts, reaction timers, two-steps, throttle stops, wheelie bars, headers, 90/10 shocks, rev limiters, hi-stall converters, Kool Cans, line locks, or MSD ignitions!

Drag racing a Stocker was CHEAP!!! No cash prizes for Stockers; trophys, only... and only 4 of them. If there were 90 Stockers there, they would probably have 25 in A Stock; 30 in B Stock, 20 in C Stock and 15 in D.

All racing was heads-up, and you ran just other cars in your "Class" to get your trophy. There was no Stock Eliminator. Everybody knew that the winner of A Stock was the baddest car there!!

After the regular racing program was over, the announcer invited anyone (spectators) who wanted to, to bring their family car to the starting line and see what it would do, or grudge race someone of their choice. This went on for a couple of hours... no charge.

THAT is grass roots drag racing, and a lot of people got their first taste of quarter mile drag racing that way. I think it was brilliant P.R.

That was 53 short years ago.... I remember it like it was yesterday...
Click to expand...

At least you lived an got to see it an experience it :cheers:
 
Maybe it's because I'm so friggin' O-L-D, but it was a lot more fun back then...maybe, because it didn't COST so danged much!!!

Of course, we didn't go very fast then, but any street car that ran quicker than 15 flat was awesome....

Now, a 2009 front-wheel-drive, Toyota Camry V6 will run the quarter in the low 14's @ 100 mph with an automatic, right off the showroom floor (info from Car and Driver road test.) A soccer-mom/grocery-getter car...

We had a '35 Pontiac coupe with a 345 cu. in. Olds with 3 two-barrells, an Engle cam, a Hydro-Stick (4-speed racing automatic) and 8" slicks, and ran it for 3 years and NEVER got it to run 100... and, it was competitive (locally.)

Now, I've got more invested in aftermarket axles, wheels and slicks for my Valiant, than we had in that whole car!!!

Like I said... it was more fun, back then...

(yeah, that's me (the fat one) in the pic, in 1959...)

Bill Deadman & Ned Chever & BG140.jpg
 
Something to keep in mind tho.... Go to a local street night or test N tune and you'll see kids with stock importa racing each other on pretty much what you describe... running times close to yours. The fun is still there, just the sound and lack of paperwork...lol
 
Bill Dedman said:
Maybe it's because I'm so friggin' O-L-D, but it was a lot more fun back then...maybe, because it didn't COST so danged much!!!

Of course, we didn't go very fast then, but any street car that ran quicker than 15 flat was awesome....

We had a '35 Pontiac coupe with a 345 cu. in. Olds with 3 two-barrells, an Engle cam, a Hydro-Stick (4-speed racing automatic) and 8" slicks, and ran it for 3 years and NEVER got it to run 100... and, it was competitive (locally.)

Now, I've got more invested in aftermarket axles, wheels and slicks for my Valiant, than we had in that whole car!!!

Like I said... it was more fun, back then...
Click to expand...
My thoughts exactly, only Im not O-L-D... Hahahaha
It's too bad the people with the biggest pocket books and most secrets wins these days.
I love watching vintage drag racing and seeing the way they did things back in the day. That was racing!
If someone on this site tried some of the things they did back then they'd be laughed right off the internet!
I just wish it was easier / more inviting to new get new automotive enthusiasts into the hobby these days.



Bill Dedman said:
Now, a 2009 front-wheel-drive, Toyota Camry V6 will run the quarter in the low 14's @ 100 mph with an automatic, right off the showroom floor (info from Car and Driver road test.) A soccer-mom/grocery-getter car...
Click to expand...
So what if my slant six Duster struggles to keep up to modern traffic from a stop light. It's still wayyyyy cooler! :toothy10:
 
theres a 4 speed in the red amx. its a stock dual 4bbl carbs, high rise intake,hood scoop ss/c car running low 9's and he's one of my dads friends and he is the car owner of my dads good friend pat but hes and automatic ss/ha car but still in the low 10's.

aris wheelie.jpg


pat amx wheelie.jpg
 
daniel_depetro said:
It's too bad the people with the biggest pocket books and most secrets wins these days.
Click to expand...

Not if you "race smart"!

In the overall picture, which most die-hard class racers hate to admit, Stock and Super Stock are basically a bracket race with specific rules/requirements.
The ones "with the biggest pocket books and most secrets" will have the biggest advantage in Stock and SS when there is a heads-up race. But that doesn't happen often.

When I got into IHRA crate motor Stock, I chose the lowest HP Mopar crate engine (360/300hp Commando) and used the heaviest A-body (1975) that I could. That gave me the opportunity to be in a slower class than most of the popular combinations run by racers with more resources. I can run I, J & K/CM. G, H & I/CM are a hornets nest of earlier, lighter A-body 360/300hp Magnum combinations. The Magnum is refactored to 5hp more than the Commando. There are a few cars that can run in the same classes as me, but not many. So when eliminations come around, the "pocket book" isn't a dominating factor.

In my fantasies, I wondered what I would do if somehow I could afford a new Challenger factory race car with the 6.1 Hemi, 5.7 Hemi or 5.9 Magnum options. As I figured, everyone (so far) has or is building a 6.1 hemi version for AA/SA, A/SA and B/SA. To get away from that "hornets nest" which includes the new Mustangs, I would go with the 5.9 Magnum version which, I believe may fit around G, H & I/SA. I realize that there are a lot of fast, older, sorted-out combos in those classes. But I figure I'd have a better chance there against an occasional heads-up race. Otherwise, dial-in and race! So there is hope.

Gotta remember to buy a lottery ticket today! :p
But I'd still go with the 5.9 version. ;)
 
74Dusterkid said:
theres a 4 speed in the red amx. its a stock dual 4bbl carbs, high rise intake,hood scoop ss/c car running low 9's and he's one of my dads friends and he is the car owner of my dads good friend pat but hes and automatic ss/ha car but still in the low 10's.
Click to expand...

Both of these cars are at Cecil County in Maryland this weekend and have pics on dragracecentral.com

http://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCPhoto.asp?ID=190367&Filter=100#indextop

http://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCPhoto.asp?ID=190328&Filter=100#indextop


The allowance of aftermarket parts have been a natural progression since the late '60's - early '70's. It's unfortunate, but OEM parts are getting scarce and it does help keep the aftermarket manufacturers in business. Stock now has a lot of similarities with SS about 20-30 years ago and the modifications and sophistication in SS has surpassed what was hi-tech in Pro Stock in the mid-'70's! I wish it was simpler, no electronics or so many aftermarket parts. Sometimes I wish I was born 10 years earlier. But we can't go back. At least, if finances permit, we can still race.
 
yup both were at the toyo nationals at maplegrove last week too. i would've went down and help crew with them too but i had to work so my dad is down helping him. and as for the fastest and has the most money always wins is not so. the only time that you run heads up is if you run a car in your class which isnt that common(unless your an a body with a hemi then you have your own class XD). any other time its pretty much bracket racing, you dial and run, hope to not red light or break out. after each run you must weigh in if you are light you are disqualified. ashley force was disqualified at the toyo nats for being to light. eveything in or on the car must be stock according to the vin and fender tag other than what is allowed by NHRA.must have headliner,heater controls,dash,seats front and rear un less theres a cage then seats can be changed. and the field is pretty diverse from the guy that pulls in in a half a million dollar totor-home to the guys that show up with an open trailer and hope to not break or they wont race for the next 3 races.
 
They have gotten away from the VIN and fender tag info a long time ago. That is part of the concern, where too much aftermarket/non-stock/not exactly OEM stuff has been allowed over the years. But many of the older original cars are too rare and valuable to race so you will find many that actually started out a 6 cyl versions, including the SS/AH Hemi cars! Many ex-race cars have been converted back to their OEM configuration over the years also.
 
I agree w/ Locomotion and 74Dusterkid. It's a very common misconception that you have to spend a lot of money to run Stock.
My friend and I built our '71 Road Runner from a nice '72 Satellite. Having all the parts to make it a '71, '72, Road Runner or Satellite gave us the options of using almost any engine Mopar made! Hemi, 440 6pk and 4bbl, 383 (71), 400(72), slant and 318 (Not good combos, at least not in the mid-90's when we built it.) Hi-compression 340(71) and low compression 340(72).
We built it as a '71 4406pk because it fit into D/SA, and there weren't many cars in Div. 1 that we had to worry about in D/SA. We were only 2 tenths below the 11.85 index, so we had to watch out for those faster cars in the eliminator and/or class run-offs. The odds are on your side. You just can't let a faster D/SA come up behind you before the ladder is set. In 2 years of running it (on a full schedule), we only came up against a faster D/SA car once, maybe twice, I don't recall exactly. One time, we even beat another D/SA car! I was driving, and I wasn't sure how to act!
Bottom line is: It's about research. See what combos are soft, and/or give you the most options.
We went racing on a limited budget, w/ an old ramp truck and a car that wasn't as "trick" as it could have been. We were competitive on a divisional and national level. Oh, and we had a couple runner-up's and we went some rounds here and there. My partner was Number 5 in the country in 1985 w/ another car that wasn't "ultra trick". That was my good fortune to race w/ an experienced successful racer.
From what I understand now, it's harder to get into some races w/o being pretty quick. The field is selected by how far under you run, and if you're slow, don't bother to go! (When we ran, as a whole there weren't as many cars running so quick, so we were able to qualify in the bottom of the field.)
 
yea about the index when you qualify you must be in under your index or its not smart to run. and i forgot to mention that at the toyo nationals both of the amx's won their classes and we dont have millions of dollars.
 
74Dusterkid said:
yea about the index when you qualify you must be in under your index or its not smart to run. and i forgot to mention that at the toyo nationals both of the amx's won their classes and we dont have millions of dollars.
Click to expand...

Man i love those amx's:cheers:
 
I read through some of the stock elim. results from Indy, couple Mopars did OK. Looks like Perfacar's Dart Sport qualified.

Jason McCormack lost in the A/S final in his '66 Hemi Belvedere.

Mopar had a winner in F/SA, runner-up in G/SA and winners in H/SA and K/SA.
 
Like to let everybody know matt victory273 won class at nationals at Brainard mn and we picked up another sponser. We will be at thunder valley in marion sd sept 18 and 19 for the stocker super stock event
 
zoomzoom56258 said:
Like to let everybody know matt victory273 won class at nationals at Brainard mn and we picked up another sponser. We will be at thunder valley in marion sd sept 18 and 19 for the stocker super stock event
Click to expand...


I've been following him, that car is screamin!!!!!
 
SpeedThrills said:
The field is selected by how far under you run, and if you're slow, don't bother to go! (When we ran, as a whole there weren't as many cars running so quick, so we were able to qualify in the bottom of the field.)
Click to expand...

So how many cars show up to try and race in Stock? Is it a 32 car ladder or what?

I'm very intrigued by the idea, but it kind of seems like the worst of both worlds. (I've never done it though)

You've the expense and hassle of heads up racing. Better get your cryo'd muffler bearings ready. Better have THIS $$$ GUY do your heads for you and THAT $$$ GUY do your carb. PLus it sounds like the crazy politics and people playing favorites too, so at the end of the day, some jerkoff can wave a pen and your hard work, ingenuity and money just got turned into junk.

Oh, and first you get to jack around digging through junkpiles to find a useable 40 year old carb core.

But then the racing itself is mostly bracket racing, so you end up putting a bunch of wear and tear on HIGH dollar parts just to go bracket racing, and you've got enough money in it that you don't want to just race any old weekend for fear of breaking something.

Again, I am intrigued by the idea....

Steve
 
at a national event it is a qualified 128 car field based on how far you are under the index...

at the divisional races..it is an all run field...but qualified based on how far you are under the index...
 
To mr.V273,congrats on the record and hope you get more records and faster every weekend,and the same to any of the Stock or Super stock racers here on this forum.My heart is with the 2 stock classes as a ex racer,the true builders and thinkers of the sport.If a 273 valiant can run close to mid tens seconds runs, can you all please tell me why for years alot of you have bitched and complained that it can,t be done,with more cubes and no rules attached to your motor??????.Now alot may still think its some type of cheating,your allowed that thought,but its all about the person behind the wheel and the R&D of your car.Back in 75/76 we set a record with a S/S 327 mailbu,going a 3/4 of a second under the index,with the wheels 2-3 feet in the air,and shifting at 8600rpm,with the origanal parts,no after market rods/heads,its rules of 30 years ago.Its now 2010,get your heads out of the sand,get your *** to the drag strip and talk and listen big time to the stock/super stock racers,and see what we have been telling you guys for years.Talking to a racer does not cost any money,but buying the wrong parts,month after month,and going backwards with your time slips gets to be a pain,mrmopartech
 
I used to follow Stock Elim closely, and ran it for 2 seasons. If you read this forum: http://classracer.com/classforum/index.php, for about a year, and attend races to learn close up about it, you'll just scratch the surface of what it's all about. The eliminator as it is now, has been evolving since about 1972, it has existed in other forms for years before that. I don't know if anyone has ever written a good history of it, but it would be interesting.
It's even more than a way of life for the people involved in it. It's generational, too. Many grandfather, father, son involvements.
 
a big check book lots of help ,lots of testing its alot of work to do be able to go second under the index. don,t do what I did, do your home work first then buy. it helps alot to know someone involve in the sport. I have a f/sa dart been working on it for three years now still don,t have where it needs to be it will run 1.41,4.34,6.92,11.07 at 118mph it needs to go 10.80s at 3310 lbs.
 
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