School me on Stock Eliminator?

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My stock eliminator. 8)

faucet pics 530.jpg
 
For what it is worth, I live in NC and we are blessed to have both NHRA and IHRA tracks. If you do not want the expense of NHRA stock, look at the NMCA and other organizations that run nostalgia stock and Super Stock classes. Their rules are not as restrictive. Also a "crate" motor style car will give you more options and parts that are legal. Micheal Beard, IHRA World Champion and Record Holder has a web site called the "Staging Light" Mike is very friendly and has given me a lot of insight into racing stock. We are also lucky in that several of the local bracket tracks run a Stock/SuperStock combo series of races. I am building a 440 Duster with an "IHRA Spec" style crate motor for bracket racing and I hope the combo's. It won't be competitive for class racing but it will run the combo's.
Good Luck!
Norman
 
Theres an IHRA legal crate motor and converter for sale on Moparts for a good price if anyone is interested.
 
Well, I called NHRA twice, today, about the D-Dart situation.

In the morning, she didn't know anything yet, but said the (tech) guys at the Las Vegas race were going to call her in the late afternoon with an answer as to why it's not in the Class Guide as a Stocker, but is as a Super Stocker. She reiterated her opinion that the eligibility rules to get into the Guide were the same for Stock as Super Stock. I wonder.....

I asked what time she leaves to go home, and she said 5:30 p.m.

So, I called at 5:15... no answer.


I'll try again tomorrow around noon. This is getting ridiculous...
 
Called NHRA Tech again today and she said that every time she calls the Strip at Vegas (where all the REAL NHRA Techs are,) they can't hear her for the noise on the strip, so, she suggested I cal back TUESDAY....

So, I shall.
What else can I do?

Frustrated Bill...
 
hi, NHRA rule on radiators in stock, Full size stock radiator mandatory for year/body type used, must be of same year or model. in other words, V8 rad for V8 and 6 for 6.
 
Well. I finally got the definitive "WORD" from NHRA, today, on the status of the 1966 "D" Dart as regards runnning it in Stock Eliminator.

You cannot.

"Why," I asked, "is it in the Classification Guide as a legal Super Stocker, but not a Stock Eliminator car?"

'WE DON'T KNOW," came the truly amazing answer. The paperwork surrounding this mystery can't be found, apparently, at the NHRA offices in Glendora.

I have made no less than SIX phone calls to that Tech office over a ten-day period, in an attempt to try and find out how a car that was BUILT to run a specific class (D Stock; that's why it's called a "D DART") isn't allowed to run, except in Super Stock Eliminator.

The Tech I talked to at NHRA said that if someone really wants to run one in Stock, they should WRITE to the NHRA Tech Department and explain what they want to do, and point out that MOPAR BUILT this car for that class, and that it's in the Guide as a S/S car, then maybe it would be looked into. Maybe...

Myself, I wouldn't bet on it EVER being accepted because they only built 25 of them, according to a guy who worked on the project at Mopar, in '66. He should know... That's way short of the minimum required, but then again, it's in Super Stock as a legal eagle, so, all bets are off...

I did my best. Sorry I couldn't get a straight answer out of those people.
I find it incredible...

Bill, in Conway, AR
 
:munky2:I tried this years ago Bill, I have a straight, rust free 66 Dart I wanted to run in Stock with the D/Dart engine combo. I got the runaround about the minimum 500 build and such. I told the NHRA gent that there were easily 500 66 Dart's built with 273's and could prove it. His response was that it had to be 500 D/Darts. I told him I'd bet him a $1000 bucks there weren't 500 '67 Novas built with the 325 horse 327, but they're legal. What gives? "Politics" he said, and then hung up on me. I never called back. I went nostalgia racing instead.

You know they DID just approve the single 4 bbl Hemi combination (I think they called it the "NASCAR option") for Stock Eliminator. Some racer was flogging a 65 Dodge B-body version at Vegas this year. My fear is they'll say OK to the Dart, I'll pour vast sums of money into the thing, piss off the Chevy people, and either get told "Whoops, just kidding...!" or get factored into space.
 
Dago Red,

Thanks for your input!

The 1966 Chevy II came with a 350 HP 327, but, from all I can find out, in '67 they failed to build ANY Chevy II's with that motor, though they did put it into the Chevelle.

It's in the NHRA Stock Car Classification guide for 1966 (de-factored down to 293 hp), but the only version of that motor in the Class Guide for 1967 is listed in the Chevelle section. No Novas above 275hp for '67.

Below are the links to those two pages.

http://tinyurl.com/63xkrr For 1967 Chevy II classes and specs

http://tinyurl.com/5p8urk For 1966 Chevy II classes and specs

The D Dart is listed in the Class Guide as legal for Super Stock, but not Stock.

I was told by an NHRA tech that the number-built qualification to get into both of those Eliminatotrs was the same.

When I asked about how this discrepancy came about I got a resounding "WE DON'T KNOW."

I believe that a couple of letters to the right people might get the D Dart re-instated into the Stock Car Classification Guide, but I certainly am not sure.

There are a couple of "NASCAR Hemis" (single 4bbl) cars running. David Barton has one on the East Coast, and then there's the one you saw at Vegas. Joe Teuton (New Orleans) WAS building one, but when NHRA started piling horsepower on it BEFOE IT EVER HIT THE STRIP, he shelved the project. Dunno where he's at with it, now.

Neither of the two that are running appears to be as fast as Ronnie West's former Fred Henson '70 GTX A/SA Street Hemi, but then, that's a $60K motor... courtesy of Don Little.

Angela Bushmaker (Seattle area) just ran 12.006 at Pomona on Friday with a 235hp 273 Commando '65 Valiant two door sedan in K/SA. That's a Larry Hollums engine in that car. He has a long history of making L-A motors fly...

There's just no telling what he could do with a 275hp D Dart motor... It would be BAAAAAAD!!! LOL!
 
Matt, what rear gear do you run? I'm guessing around 5.86 to 6.13 ??? Also I'm assuming it's an 8 3/4?

The car is totally awesome by the way!!! When I hit the lotto I'm gonna build a '67 Valiant with the same combo, I think it fits SS/L. I'll call you for the mill!!!
 
dartman6 said:
Matt, what rear gear do you run? I'm guessing around 5.86 to 6.13 ??? Also I'm assuming it's an 8 3/4?

The car is totally awesome by the way!!! When I hit the lotto I'm gonna build a '67 Valiant with the same combo, I think it fits SS/L. I'll call you for the mill!!!
Click to expand...
Thanks. Rear is a 9" ford 5.83 gear. Why wait for the lotto, that may never come.
 
hi, well i have to throw a little fuel on the 275/273 class info. I have a 1972 NHRA classification guide. it lists the 1966 D-Dart in stock eliminator. A 2 dr hard top is 10.71 LBs per HP. a 2 dr convertible is 11.11 LBS per HP. there is no listing restricting it to Super Stock only!!!!The only motor listed for SS is the hemi. the weight breaks are different between stock and super stock for the Hemi only!! just thought I'd pass that on.
 
Man what an interesting thread!

273 cars in the 10's!
Thats plain crazy!
How cool!

I have some questions,sorry if there stupid!

This d dart yous are talking about,does it look any dif
to any other 66 dart or?

An mr victory 273!
What a car you have!
Id be hell proud of doing what you have done!
Just out of curiousity,whats the compression of the motor
an what sort of fuel does it run?
 
Much of this escapes me. Why on earth would you worry so much about the cam lift only to allow a Jerico?
 
nemesis said:
Man what an interesting thread!

273 cars in the 10's!
Thats plain crazy!
How cool!

I have some questions,sorry if there stupid!

This d dart yous are talking about,does it look any dif
to any other 66 dart or?

An mr victory 273!
What a car you have!
Id be hell proud of doing what you have done!
Just out of curiousity,whats the compression of the motor
an what sort of fuel does it run?
Click to expand...
I'm a little surprised at the attention this project has gotten and its been a lot of fun. Comp ratio is listed at 10.5;1 but when blueprinted to the specs of nhra it comes a bit higher, thats all I'm going to say about that. I just use traktek111, it's what I sell my dirt track customers. Can't afford the expensive stuff.
 
victory273 said:
I'm a little surprised at the attention this project has gotten and its been a lot of fun. Comp ratio is listed at 10.5;1 but when blueprinted to the specs of nhra it comes a bit higher, thats all I'm going to say about that. I just use traktek111, it's what I sell my dirt track customers. Can't afford the expensive stuff.
Click to expand...

Like i said im very impressed!
Of course youd get attention!

10sec Naturally aspirated 273!
The lil mopar that could!:-D
 
Another question, what fuel pump are you running?
No way the standard one can hold up!?
 
Outsider said:
Much of this escapes me. Why on earth would you worry so much about the cam lift only to allow a Jerico?
Click to expand...

The biggest concern with Stock Eliminator in terms of rules has always been the engine. If you have a winning Stock-legal car, the driveline has been tweaked, the suspension has been figured out as if by NASA, the auto trannys are super secret. Clutch pressures are usually pretty closely guarded. Because making the whole car a perfectly integrated system makes them fast. The factory manual trannys simply got broken too much and the Jericho fits everything and actually levels the field a little. So it was a good move. Last I knew, a stock eliminator 727 were fully rollarized, had C4 internals, and a special valve bodies plus a tunable convertor pressure feed. Makes the Jericho setup very cheap when compared to that witha $1K+ custom convertor.
 
moper said:
The biggest concern with Stock Eliminator in terms of rules has always been the engine. If you have a winning Stock-legal car, the driveline has been tweaked, the suspension has been figured out as if by NASA, the auto trannys are super secret. Clutch pressures are usually pretty closely guarded. Because making the whole car a perfectly integrated system makes them fast. The factory manual trannys simply got broken too much and the Jericho fits everything and actually levels the field a little. So it was a good move. Last I knew, a stock eliminator 727 were fully rollarized, had C4 internals, and a special valve bodies plus a tunable convertor pressure feed. Makes the Jericho setup very cheap when compared to that witha $1K+ custom convertor.
Click to expand...

The stock and super stock 727s I've seen have 904 internals, I guess it would depend on the builder. My friends who race Hemis in SS use ProTrans 727s with 904 guts ... and yes the Jerico was a great move, it meant a stick car could actually be SHIFTED and not BROKEN.
 
victory273 said:
Thanks. Rear is a 9" ford 5.83 gear. Why wait for the lotto, that may never come.
Click to expand...

A...gag...choke...gag...9-inch??? YUCK...LOL Sorry I couldn't resist Matt. I did see in an earlier post that you apologized to the Mopar guys for that...

Why wait for the lotto??? I have to build my '68 Hemi Dart clone and maintain my '69 340 4-Speed Dart...but I have thought about a Super Stock '67 273 Valiant for a while now...it would be almost as cool as your car.
 
dartman6 said:
The stock and super stock 727s I've seen have 904 internals, I guess it would depend on the builder. My friends who race Hemis in SS use ProTrans 727s with 904 guts ... and yes the Jerico was a great move, it meant a stick car could actually be SHIFTED and not BROKEN.
Click to expand...

I realize this is the progression of racing, but there is SO much about S/SS that is NOWHERE near stock anymore. I have followed Stock Elim since the early 70's, and raced in it in the mid 90's. I don't appreciate it as I once did because of all of the stuff they run. In the 70's and 80's, you'd have been thrown SOO far from the track, showing up with what is basically a Modified Elim car, you wouldn't have known what hit you! They used to check for correct interior trim, loose fan belts, you name it!
It has probably eliminated some cheating, because the more stringent the rules, the more room to cheat.
 
Matt,
That's an awesome car that you built. I have to thank you for getting me motivated again. Gonna get back to work on my cars. After I get my '64 Belvedere finished, I'm going to restore the D/Dart to it's 1966 racing colors and get it out to the track. The guy that I bought it from, Al Adam (Chrysler Racing Program), did a lot of work on the engine. Not sure what's in the innerds but I'm sure it's been well built. It sounds really health. Hope it's half as strong as yours. It turned 12.92 back in 1966. Looks like I'll have to find a way to get rid of 2.5 seconds.

Went down to the local Secretary of State Office to register the Belvedere and D/Dart in Florida --- since the prices of everything is going to increase dramatically on Sept 1st. The lady behind the counted asked me about the mileage that I put on the D/Dart's title. She thought that 367 miles was kind of low. I also had to tell her the VIN was LO23D6 and not L023D6. The "O"'s and "0"'s tend to look a lot alike on the title that I turned in. At least she spoke "English" andunderstood what I was saying.
 
Allowing the Jerico is a farce. It is no longer a stock class... it is aftermarket racing, and any rules that pertain to the ORIGINAL appointments to the car such as interior, engine, or sheetmetal for that matter, are moot. That transmission is an aftermarket cheat to keep inferior engineering in the program. Why? $$$?
Not my cup of tea.
 
Outsider said:
Allowing the Jerico is a farce. It is no longer a stock class... it is aftermarket racing, and any rules that pertain to the ORIGINAL appointments to the car such as interior, engine, or sheetmetal for that matter, are moot. That transmission is an aftermarket cheat to keep inferior engineering in the program. Why? $$$?
Not my cup of tea.
Click to expand...
I didn't know they allowed the Jerico. Is that just Super Stock? I'm more familiar with Stock, where you had to have a trans that needs the clutch to shift it.
 
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