Shocks: looking for Blistein quality at KYB price.

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migsBIG

migsBIG

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So I’m starting to order parts to rebuild and improve the suspension on my 1973 Duster build. I had a set of the early days of the Blistein shocks redone by Hotchkis on my Cuda and Charger and loved them. Made the KYB’s on there prior feel like worn air shocks in comparison. 10 years later,I want that same quality, but not the $600+ price. Is there any shocks similar to the Blistein quality but at a cheaper price? Love you know what you guys have used.
 
Over a month and nobody has info? Dang, I was hoping to not spend $600 on shocks. Anybody have a suggestions?
 
I’m selfishly hoping for some options…

Everything I’ve read is that we either have the basic Monroe/Gabriel/Sachs, or the expensive Bilstein or Hotchkis options.

I would love a middle ground, non-KYB option.
 
Beams said:
I’m selfishly hoping for some options…

Everything I’ve read is that we either have the basic Monroe/Gabriel/Sachs, or the expensive Bilstein or Hotchkis options.

I would love a middle ground, non-KYB option.
Click to expand...
you and I both.
 
Or you could disregard the naysayers, and run KYB’s. You could even put a little sticker on them if they really bother you.

image.jpg
 
MidnightSwinger said:
Or you could disregard the naysayers, and run KYB’s. You could even put a little sticker on them if they really bother you.

View attachment 1716260025
Click to expand...

lol, but the ride quality and handling still suck!

Seriously, KYB’s are terrible. I ran them for years, swapped them out, and wondered why I kept them on my car for even one hot second. If you haven’t run real shocks, you can’t possibly know what you’re missing. I’d run Monroe’s or Gabriel’s in a pinch on a budget, but never KYB’s again.
 
MidnightSwinger said:
Or you could disregard the naysayers, and run KYB’s. You could even put a little sticker on them if they really bother you.

View attachment 1716260025
Click to expand...

I have 3 cars with some heavier/upgraded/trick stock type parts, all have KYB's on the front and back, which seem more than adequate IMO.
I recently replaced the front and back Bilstein shocks on my 2013 Challenger and the new ones came with a bunch of stickers...hmmmm
 
Mojoe9955 said:
I have 3 cars with some heavier/upgraded/trick stock type parts, all have KYB's on the front and back, which seem more than adequate IMO.
I recently replaced the front and back Bilstein shocks on my 2013 Challenger and the new ones came with a bunch of stickers...hmmmm
Click to expand...
I love stickers!!!
 
Just chiming in because I've been wondering the same thing as the OP.

I searched and couldn't find any listing for Bilsteins that would fit my '64 Dart, which disappointed me.
I was ready to shell out the $600, too, as I've used Bilsteins on a '74 Olds Delta and a '00 Cherokee, and they turned both vehicles into actual human cars, with acceptable handling and a firm but comfortable ride, as well as on a BMW E36, with predictably excellent results.

Once I had completely satisfied myself that no Bilsteins were available for my car (checking other shocks' specified applicabilities, cross-referencing, etc.), I decided to settle for the KYBs.

Another experienced A-Body guy, whose opinion I value, told me that the Bilsteins would be too hard for my stock \6 2,800 pound Dart, and I was better off with the KYBs, but my excellent experiences with Bilsteins in the past lead me to question that.

If anyone has any comments on this based on experience, I'd be interested.

I'd also be interested in knowing the part numbers of the Bilsteins that would fit an early A-Body - I haven't installed the KYBs yet, and I could always send them back. ;-)

- Eric
 
MDchanic said:
Just chiming in because I've been wondering the same thing as the OP.

I searched and couldn't find any listing for Bilsteins that would fit my '64 Dart, which disappointed me.
I was ready to shell out the $600, too, as I've used Bilsteins on a '74 Olds Delta and a '00 Cherokee, and they turned both vehicles into actual human cars, with acceptable handling and a firm but comfortable ride, as well as on a BMW E36, with predictably excellent results.

Once I had completely satisfied myself that no Bilsteins were available for my car (checking other shocks' specified applicabilities, cross-referencing, etc.), I decided to settle for the KYBs.

Another experienced A-Body guy, whose opinion I value, told me that the Bilsteins would be too hard for my stock \6 2,800 pound Dart, and I was better off with the KYBs, but my excellent experiences with Bilsteins in the past lead me to question that.

If anyone has any comments on this based on experience, I'd be interested.

I'd also be interested in knowing the part numbers of the Bilsteins that would fit an early A-Body - I haven't installed the KYBs yet, and I could always send them back. ;-)

- Eric
Click to expand...
Here ya go:
Bilstein High Performance Shock Set - Front & Rear

They offer 10% off for forum members. I’ve never claimed it, but I’m pretty sure you need to mention it in the comments upon checkout.
 
Once you understand the way that KYB Gas-A-Just shocks are constructed, you understand why they are inferior.
Most non adjustable shock absorbers are either linear or progressive in their operation. This means that during operation, they have either equal rates of dampening from extension to compression or they get firmer from extension to compression. Bilstein shocks are progressive. As the suspension compresses, the shocks get firmer.
KYBs are actually the opposite. They are digressive, which means that they are initially harsh but as the suspension compresses, they soften up. This only works on soft suspensions on smooth roads. If you have slant six torsion bars, the KYBs might make the car feel firmer but if the road is rough, the car will not ride well.
 
Interesting. I had no idea that P-S-T had them.

Now I've got to get myself ginned up to spend the extra moolah! Argh.

I wonder why Bilstein themselves do not list any shocks compatible with pre-'77 A-bodies on their web site.

I'll have to get the KYBs packaged up to go back to Amazon...

Thanks!

- Eric

ps: anyone who's bought these P-S-T Bilsteins care to comment on what they feel like / how they perform?
 
MDchanic said:
Interesting. I had no idea that P-S-T had them.

Now I've got to get myself ginned up to spend the extra moolah! Argh.

I wonder why Bilstein themselves do not list any shocks compatible with pre-'77 A-bodies on their web site.

I'll have to get the KYBs packaged up to go back to Amazon...

Thanks!

- Eric

ps: anyone who's bought these P-S-T Bilsteins care to comment on what they feel like / how they perform?
Click to expand...

You can also get them from @BergmanAutoCraft, these are the rears but he has the fronts as well

Bilstein Shocks - Mopar - A Body Rear - Bergman Auto Craft

As for why Bilstein doesn’t list them, it’s because they’re not just Bilstein shocks. They are RCD Bilsteins, which is to say they are Bilstein shocks that are then tuned/revalved by RCD. And the RCD Bilsteins are then sold by RCD, not Bilstein.

I have run the RCD Bilsteins on my Challenger and on my Duster, both with 1.12” torsion bars. They are very good shocks. There are better shocks, like the Hotchkis Fox shocks, but the RCD Bilsteins are more than good enough for most folks. My Challenger was switched from KYB’s directly to RCD Bilstein shocks with no other changes, and the improvement in ride quality and handling was night and day, a MASSIVE improvement. My Duster went from Monroe’s to RCD Bilstein’s with 1” torsion bars at the time, which again was a big improvement. Although honestly, the Monroe’s were more tolerable than the KYB’s. I found the 1” bars on my Duster a bit soft still, so it later went to 1.12” bars. I then changed the RCD Bilsteins out for Hotchkis Fox shocks, which do handle the 1.12” bars a bit better than the RCD’s did. It was a much more subtle improvement but an improvement nonetheless. I believe that has mostly to do with the Fox’s just being slightly better at the very large torsion bars.

As for the Bilsteins not being as good for smaller torsion bars, I call BS. More expensive shocks tend to have more valves, which means, they react better over a wider range of inputs. Cheap shocks are a one response fits all deal. So KYB’s suck all the time, and the RCD’s will have a wider range of suspensions to which they can “adapt” and provide good results for.

The only folks I have heard that think KYB’s are ok run them with the dramatically undersprung factory torsion bars, and haven’t run anything better than KYB’s. So they’re solving a problem they won’t admit they have (factory torsion bars are too soft for any street going car) and attributing it to the KYB’s being great because they’re ignorant of what’s actually happening
 
it baffles me that people don't view shocks as an investment or a worthwhile upgrade to spend money on.

a new carb is in the $500 range and people are all too quick to throw down on one of those.
you're not only upgrading to something you probably won't out grow performance wise, but it will also likely last a lifetime-- the car, or yours. then you have the added benefits of ride quality, handling and safety.

kyb's are like if you paid $200 for lifetime burgers at mcdonalds. the bilstein's are like if you paid $500 for lifetime burgers at 5 guys or whatever burger chain you like that's objectively much much better than mcdonalds. yeah it's more money out of the gate but at least you won't be eating trash and shitting yourself all the time.

and just because the shocks are super stiff doesn't mean that they're doing dick at controlling/dampening the spring. a harsh jolting ride doesn't automatically equate to performance.
 
junkyardhero said:
it baffles me that people don't view shocks as an investment or a worthwhile upgrade to spend money on.

a new carb is in the $500 range and people are all too quick to throw down on one of those.
you're not only upgrading to something you probably won't out grow performance wise, but it will also likely last a lifetime-- the car, or yours. then you have the added benefits of ride quality, handling and safety.

kyb's are like if you paid $200 for lifetime burgers at mcdonalds. the bilstein's are like if you paid $500 for lifetime burgers at 5 guys or whatever burger chain you like that's objectively much much better than mcdonalds. yeah it's more money out of the gate but at least you won't be eating trash and shitting yourself all the time.

and just because the shocks are super stiff doesn't mean that they're doing dick at controlling/dampening the spring. a harsh jolting ride doesn't automatically equate to performance.
Click to expand...
I’ve run Bilstein, Tokico, Koni and Fox dampeners/shocks/struts in various vehicles. I know what quality is and what it does.

The KYB’s are inferior to the Bilsteins, period. The issue I have is, every time this discussion comes up the “KYB’s are trash” crowd like to claim that your basic **** box Monroe or Gabriel shocks are superior to the KYB’s.

I got my last set of KYB’s this year for $100 after a $50 rebate. When everything on the project cost $500+ you might have to make a compromise to get/stay on the road. I’d rather drive my junk with inferior shocks than let it rot in the garage until I can afford the best of everything.

The OP asked for Bilstein quality at KYB price, which we all know doesn’t exist. That’s not real life. Either run garbage or pony up. No half measures, no middle ground.
 
Im running monroe on my car and they seem just fine to me. Its not a road course car and it doesnt handle like a corvette. But they do what shocks are supposed to do. And they are 16 bucks. Maybe I just dont know what im missing because its what ive always used but they work and there not 600 bucks.
 
I like this discussion.

72bluNblu said:
You can also get them from @BergmanAutoCraft, these are the rears but he has the fronts as well

Bilstein Shocks - Mopar - A Body Rear - Bergman Auto Craft
Click to expand...
Thanks for that!


72bluNblu said:
As for why Bilstein doesn’t list them, it’s because they’re not just Bilstein shocks. They are RCD Bilsteins, which is to say they are Bilstein shocks that are then tuned/revalved by RCD. And the RCD Bilsteins are then sold by RCD, not Bilstein.
Click to expand...
Ah. Fascinating. I had no idea such things existed.
Your description makes them sound better than they would were they "just" stock Bilsteins.


72bluNblu said:
I have run the RCD Bilsteins on my Challenger and on my Duster, both with 1.12” torsion bars. They are very good shocks. There are better shocks, like the Hotchkis Fox shocks, but the RCD Bilsteins are more than good enough for most folks. My Challenger was switched from KYB’s directly to RCD Bilstein shocks with no other changes, and the improvement in ride quality and handling was night and day, a MASSIVE improvement. My Duster went from Monroe’s to RCD Bilstein’s with 1” torsion bars at the time, which again was a big improvement. Although honestly, the Monroe’s were more tolerable than the KYB’s. I found the 1” bars on my Duster a bit soft still, so it later went to 1.12” bars. I then changed the RCD Bilsteins out for Hotchkis Fox shocks, which do handle the 1.12” bars a bit better than the RCD’s did. It was a much more subtle improvement but an improvement nonetheless. I believe that has mostly to do with the Fox’s just being slightly better at the very large torsion bars.
Click to expand...
This is exactly the information I was looking for.
Thank you.


72bluNblu said:
The only folks I have heard that think KYB’s are ok run them with the dramatically undersprung factory torsion bars, and haven’t run anything better than KYB’s. So they’re solving a problem they won’t admit they have (factory torsion bars are too soft for any street going car) and attributing it to the KYB’s being great because they’re ignorant of what’s actually happening
Click to expand...
And... This could apply to me. Sort of.
Except that I've already run Bilsteins a number of very different vehicles, with excellent results every time.
(I've also run KYBs on several vehicles (going back 25 years ago and more), one of which was a GM A-body with large sway bars, that I drove cross-country, and while I didn't hate them, I wasn't impressed with them like I've been with the Bilsteins).

But, for this particular car, which is a 38,000 mile all-original survivor, I WILL be using undersprung factory torsion bars, and I WILL be keeping the suspension, and the entire car, as original as possible, with the exception of a dual master cylinder, radial tires and a set of shocks that will allow me to drive the car like a normal person, instead of the 100 year old lady who used to own it. (Okay, I'm kind of salivating over a Borgeson steering box, but I'm resisting...).

Thank you for all of this valuable information,

– Eric
 
junkyardhero said:
it baffles me that people don't view shocks as an investment or a worthwhile upgrade to spend money on.

a new carb is in the $500 range and people are all too quick to throw down on one of those.
you're not only upgrading to something you probably won't out grow performance wise, but it will also likely last a lifetime-- the car, or yours. then you have the added benefits of ride quality, handling and safety.

kyb's are like if you paid $200 for lifetime burgers at mcdonalds. the bilstein's are like if you paid $500 for lifetime burgers at 5 guys or whatever burger chain you like that's objectively much much better than mcdonalds. yeah it's more money out of the gate but at least you won't be eating trash and shitting yourself all the time.

and just because the shocks are super stiff doesn't mean that they're doing dick at controlling/dampening the spring. a harsh jolting ride doesn't automatically equate to performance.
Click to expand...
I absolutely agree with all of this.

There are times when I won't buy the best <whatever>, because I just don't care about the thing that it does, or the degree of increased quality won't be perceptible in my particular application (Super-Duper ultra high voltage spark plug wires for a stock ignition system on a stock motor, for instance), but if I'm going to notice either the actual performance or the longevity, I buy the best part for the job.

– Eric
 
MidnightSwinger said:
I’ve run Bilstein, Tokico, Koni and Fox dampeners/shocks/struts in various vehicles. I know what quality is and what it does.

The KYB’s are inferior to the Bilsteins, period. The issue I have is, every time this discussion comes up the “KYB’s are trash” crowd like to claim that your basic **** box Monroe or Gabriel shocks are superior to the KYB’s.

I got my last set of KYB’s this year for $100 after a $50 rebate. When everything on the project cost $500+ you might have to make a compromise to get/stay on the road. I’d rather drive my junk with inferior shocks than let it rot in the garage until I can afford the best of everything.

The OP asked for Bilstein quality at KYB price, which we all know doesn’t exist. That’s not real life. Either run garbage or pony up. No half measures, no middle ground.
Click to expand...

Like I said, I’ve run “basic **** box” Monroe’s and I’ve run KYB’s. I’d run Monroe’s every time given the choice between the two, based on their actual performance on the cars I’ve run them on. Money spent on KYB’s is wasted money.

MDchanic said:
I like this discussion.


Thanks for that!



Ah. Fascinating. I had no idea such things existed.
Your description makes them sound better than they would were they "just" stock Bilsteins.



This is exactly the information I was looking for.
Thank you.



And... This could apply to me. Sort of.
Except that I've already run Bilsteins a number of very different vehicles, with excellent results every time.
(I've also run KYBs on several vehicles (going back 25 years ago and more), one of which was a GM A-body with large sway bars, that I drove cross-country, and while I didn't hate them, I wasn't impressed with them like I've been with the Bilsteins).

But, for this particular car, which is a 38,000 mile all-original survivor, I WILL be using undersprung factory torsion bars, and I WILL be keeping the suspension, and the entire car, as original as possible, with the exception of a dual master cylinder, radial tires and a set of shocks that will allow me to drive the car like a normal person, instead of the 100 year old lady who used to own it. (Okay, I'm kind of salivating over a Borgeson steering box, but I'm resisting...).

Thank you for all of this valuable information,

– Eric
Click to expand...

If you’re going to run radial tires, running the original size torsion bars is a mistake. The traction you’ll get from even the typical all season white letter radials is substantially better than from the factory bias ply’s, and better traction means more force being transmitted into the suspension. Which takes more wheel rate to manage.

Radials also need different alignment specs, so don’t run the factory specs, use the SKOSH chart.
 
I have Monroe heavy duty hydraulic (non gas charged) shocks on Vixen and they ride fine for what I do.
 
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