MadScientistMat
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I've heard of running Rancho adjustable truck shocks on A-bodies, but I haven't tried this myself. Perhaps someone else has more details?
Shocks: looking for Blistein quality at KYB price.
- Thread starter migsBIG
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My '75 4 door valiant had standard bias-plys.
According to the '75 lit, radials were standard only on the Gran Fury.
Next down was bias steel belted, and then 2 ply.
HD suspension got .89 t-bars
we could dig back. The increase to .85" bars may have been with the heavier 2nd gen bodies, or with the added weight of crash bars etc.
abodyjoe
Well-Known Member
i remember that from the late 80's/early 90's
junkyardhero
Well-Known Member
i ran ranchos and carrera back in the mid/late 90's when choices were scant, and *good* shocks were 6~700 bucks easy.
you can do it. and they work. but for not much more money you could just get the bilsteins and they bolt right in.
Maybe they're just dirty. lol
junkyardhero
Well-Known Member
anything is possible. the more *likely* scenario is ma mopar trying to save a nickle and doing away with the smaller .830 and just equipping all the slant cars with .850
No, they are clean. I must have mixed up the torsion bar and the front sway bar diameter. It's hard getting old.
michiganpat
Well-Known Member
FWIW, the original tires (if the well worn original spare was one) on my car were D78 goodyear powercushion bias plys....
michiganpat
Well-Known Member
MDchanic
Connoisseur d'Junque
Okay, I remember writing and posting an entry about this, but it doesn't seem to be here, so I either posted it somewhere else, or I'm hallucinating.
Probably the latter.
Installed Bilsteins. Tightened factory steering box 1/2 turn, enough to eliminate very slight perceived play while running (the exact adjustment procedure is impossible with the steering box installed in an actual car).
Factory springs and torsion bars, no sway bars, 14" 70-series whitewall radials.
Car feels alright now. There's no way it's "tight," and it's got a tendency to understeer, compared with, say, my 330ci, but the ride is smooth and it handles better than cars used to handle back in the '60s. I can feel small bumps in the road more than before, but the ride is not the slightest bit rough.
It's smooth and straight at 70mph, and I haven't even had it aligned yet.
There's no point where it has that "Oh ****!" feeling and it goes where I point it without having to feel like I'm riding herd on it.
Would it handle better with sway bars, and "tighten up" a whole lot? Yes.
Would that change the ride character? Absolutely.
I've driven several '60s cars over the years with large sway bars, and I know the differences in feel, ride, and handling that result, and I generally like them, but, since this is a very original car, I'll probably avoid them for now.
We'll see what kind of urges I get in the future.
Besides, with the original Slant-Six, BBS carburetor, and 1-3/4" tailpipe, it's not going to get me into any trouble without a whole lot of effort on my part.
Were the Bilsteins worth the $500 price? Yes.
Would a set of KYBs have achieved the same effect? I doubt it, but I can't prove it.
I have run KYBs in the past though, and while I kind-of liked them when I used them, I've loved Bilsteins whenever I've used them.
I look at it this way: For a girl you really love, you'd take her out to a $500 dinner.
For one you just like, you'd take her out to the local pizza place or something.
For your wife, you'd bring home a sandwich from the deli (whoops, my wife's coming -- Better run!).
So, to answer the OP's question, and make this digression ostensibly relevant to the subject of the thread:
No, there is nothing that works like Bilsteins but is as cheap as KYBs.
They cost over three times more because they're more than 3 times better.
You're better off to wait and save up for Bilsteins than to settle for KYBs, unless you have tried them all and just like the KYBs (or the hydraulic Monroes) better, in which case, you're lucky, in the same way that the man who loves caviar is unlucky.
We've all got different cars, different driving styles, different road conditions, different uses for our cars, and different ways we want our cars to feel. This is my description of how these shocks feel in this car, and what that is worth to me.
Your mileage... well, you know.
- Eric
Probably the latter.
Installed Bilsteins. Tightened factory steering box 1/2 turn, enough to eliminate very slight perceived play while running (the exact adjustment procedure is impossible with the steering box installed in an actual car).
Factory springs and torsion bars, no sway bars, 14" 70-series whitewall radials.
Car feels alright now. There's no way it's "tight," and it's got a tendency to understeer, compared with, say, my 330ci, but the ride is smooth and it handles better than cars used to handle back in the '60s. I can feel small bumps in the road more than before, but the ride is not the slightest bit rough.
It's smooth and straight at 70mph, and I haven't even had it aligned yet.
There's no point where it has that "Oh ****!" feeling and it goes where I point it without having to feel like I'm riding herd on it.
Would it handle better with sway bars, and "tighten up" a whole lot? Yes.
Would that change the ride character? Absolutely.
I've driven several '60s cars over the years with large sway bars, and I know the differences in feel, ride, and handling that result, and I generally like them, but, since this is a very original car, I'll probably avoid them for now.
We'll see what kind of urges I get in the future.
Besides, with the original Slant-Six, BBS carburetor, and 1-3/4" tailpipe, it's not going to get me into any trouble without a whole lot of effort on my part.
Were the Bilsteins worth the $500 price? Yes.
Would a set of KYBs have achieved the same effect? I doubt it, but I can't prove it.
I have run KYBs in the past though, and while I kind-of liked them when I used them, I've loved Bilsteins whenever I've used them.
I look at it this way: For a girl you really love, you'd take her out to a $500 dinner.
For one you just like, you'd take her out to the local pizza place or something.
For your wife, you'd bring home a sandwich from the deli (whoops, my wife's coming -- Better run!).
So, to answer the OP's question, and make this digression ostensibly relevant to the subject of the thread:
No, there is nothing that works like Bilsteins but is as cheap as KYBs.
They cost over three times more because they're more than 3 times better.
You're better off to wait and save up for Bilsteins than to settle for KYBs, unless you have tried them all and just like the KYBs (or the hydraulic Monroes) better, in which case, you're lucky, in the same way that the man who loves caviar is unlucky.
We've all got different cars, different driving styles, different road conditions, different uses for our cars, and different ways we want our cars to feel. This is my description of how these shocks feel in this car, and what that is worth to me.
Your mileage... well, you know.
- Eric
There’s nothing to “buy”, with radial tires and the physical world we inhabit these cars are substantially undersprung with factory torsion bars. There’s no equation or modern method of determining wheel rates for an application that will tell you your car is correctly sprung with the factory bars and a modern set of tires.
Your car, run it how you want. But your car IS undersprung, and it no doubt handles like it is.
@Mattax is right, the A’s didn’t come standard with radials. The complete changeover for Mopar was when the F’s replaced the A’s, the F’s got radials standard. And, surprise, they also got a redesigned suspension to go with them to correct the differences between bias ply and radial tire use.
Funny, I've driven plenty of cars, from 2009 Challenger, to Porche to Corvette. With 250,000 real world miles all over the country on early Barracudas I see no big difference between any new cars, performance cars, and my 66 Barracuda. The only improvement on my 66 Barracuda from stock 1966 Formula S suspension (original rear springs, sway bar, and torsion bars) are Bilstein shocks, a needle bearing idler arm, and a good alignment. Been running high performance radial tires since they came out, no big deal. Keep preaching your "new" wizbang gotta buy "supposed" improvements. Been there, done all that for decades, and I don't need them thank you. You want to road race or autocross, do what you want. I am just not interested in those endeavors.
michiganpat
Well-Known Member
FMJ's were undersprung, too, and there were no options for thicker bars for a long, long, long time....(not until after I sold my hot rodded 5th ave). although there is the alternative to big a$$ springs for handling, which consists of lighter, more moderate spring rates for ride comfort, and bigger sway bars for roll stiffness and cornering. IIRC 90's mustangs used this approach pretty successfully.
junkyardhero
Well-Known Member
yeah, it's basically two schools of thought. who will argue with each other until the heat death of the universe about which approach is better, more correct or enjoys better advantages.
Well, I bought Gabriel shocks for the 73 Dart to try. Redoing the rear suspension, Super Stock springs and KYB shocks. Car now has 6 leaf Espo +1 rear springs, .87 front bars, and 1.12 front swaybar with factory swaybar lower control arms. More of a cruising, long haul car. Will let everyone know how I like it, with everyday shocks. It has low mileage KYB's all around now, free to anyone who wants them for shipping.
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Thanks, I have wondered what torsion bars were standard on the 76 Police cars that came with factory front and rear sway bars. Does it give the diameter of the front sway bar also?
michiganpat
Well-Known Member
sorry, no
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