Single or double?

[shep76]

69 Dart, 360 (don't know where it came out of). My alternator is cracked and looks to be pretty crooked.... Is it possible I need the single pulley alternator for this set up? Does anyone know what set ups used single and which setups used dual pulleys? Or is this kind of a try and return type of thing?

 

[Newbomb Turk]

Put the belt on the outer groove.

 

[Mattax]

Figure out what is there and then we can figure out what is needed.

Right off the bat, the alternator mounting is missing a spacer.
A longer bolt will be needed along with the spacer.

Some of the things that effect the belt alignment is the timing cover, water pump, and pulleys.
Also the alternator mounting brackets.

The radiator top is correct for '69
Look at the water pump inlet. If it points toward the fuel pump, its '70 up. My guess is that is what is on there - most aluminum pumps are. We won't know which impeller it has, but that's a second issue. It relates the proper pulleys to choose. So it will come up again.

The fan looks to me like a later fan.
Pulley I'm not sure about.

The side of the engine block will have a casting date. I don't think that's important. What is important in terms of alignment can be the water pump, the timing cover, matching pulleys.


Good news on the alternator pulley is that's a factroy pulley not one of the new pieces of junk.

 

[Professor Fate]

Either one will work, you'll just have one unused groove with the double.
What you DO need to do is to mount the alternator correctly so the grooves will line up, and not stress-crack your alternator (or brackets) again by mounting it crooked.
Look at this picture:

The alternator mounting tabs go to the OUTSIDE of the bracket.
And it looks like you've got a cobbled AC inner alternator bracket instead of the correct spacer used on the non-AC setup.
So do yourself a favor and get the correct mounts along with a new alternator.
Since you're using an aluminum water pump, you'll need the '70 and up brackets.

 

[Professor Fate]

Figure out what is there and then we can figure out what is needed.

Right off the bat, the alternator mounting is missing a spacer.
A longer bolt will be needed along with the spacer.
View attachment 1716207748

View attachment 1716207751
Some of the things that effect the belt alignment is the timing cover, water pump, and pulleys.
Also the alternator mounting brackets.

The radiator top is correct for '69
Look at the water pump inlet. If it points toward the fuel pump, its '70 up. My guess is that is what is on there - most aluminum pumps are. We won't know which impeller it has, but that's a second issue. It relates the proper pulleys to choose. So it will come up again.

The fan looks to me like a later fan.
Pulley I'm not sure about.

The side of the engine block will have a casting date. I don't think that's important. What is important in terms of alignment can be the water pump, the timing cover, matching pulleys.


Good news on the alternator pulley is that's a factroy pulley not one of the new pieces of junk.

Beat me to it!

 

[shep76]

Perfect. Thank you. Exactly the help I was looking for.

 

[Mattax]

Beat me to it!

But you got more details explained!


edit: Just thought of another easy check on the parts. The timing marks should be cast into the driver side of a '70 up timing cover.

 

[shep76]

Either one will work, you'll just have one unused groove with the double.
What you DO need to do is to mount the alternator correctly so the grooves will line up, and not stress-crack your alternator (or brackets) again by mounting it crooked.
Look at this picture:
View attachment 1716207749
The alternator mounting tabs go to the OUTSIDE of the bracket.
And it looks like you've got a cobbled AC inner alternator bracket instead of the correct spacer used on the non-AC setup.
So do yourself a favor and get the correct mounts along with a new alternator.
Since you're using an aluminum water pump, you'll need the '70 and up brackets.

There is an AC compressor in the trunk I was hoping to mount someday, no idea where it is out of. Originally this was an AC car. I'll dig around the internet for some more pics of AC cars. Although may be I should just get it up and going with simple brackets and then worry about the AC down the road... Thank you.

 

[shep76]

But you got more details explained!


edit: Just thought of another easy check on the parts. The timing marks should be cast into the driver side of a '70 up timing cover.

Yes, had a timing light on it last night, they were for sure on the driver side.

 

[cudamark]

A/C=2 groove pulley, non-A/C=1 pulley. Looks like yours originally had A/C and it was partially removed....at least the compressor was. You still have the A/C brackets and pulleys though. You need a set of non-A/C brackets and pulleys for things to line up correctly.

 

[Mattax]

OK if the timing cover and water pump are both '70, then that can put the fan close to the radiator core and top tank.
When you get to the A/C you want to figure out a way to have a fan shroud.
More immediately see how the lower hose is routed. This is an issue with later water pumps on pre '70 cars.
I've solved it a couple ways. Currently I've got a '70 lower tank on a '68 top and core - which works great.

 

[cudamark]

I'd 86 that flex fan too, unless you want to start tossing shrapnel through the hood or radiator.

 

[junkyardhero]

alternator troubles aside, that radiator is for, /6 i believe: center inlet, and pass side outlet.

that's marginal at best for a V8

also the accordion hose looks like a lump on a sore dick, take care of that mess. and like CM said, adios that flex fan while you're there.

on the AC, a lot of aftermarket intakes don't work with the mounting brackets so keep that in mind going forward.

you've got good bones there, and a lot of options so that's at least the good news.

 

[shep76]

alternator troubles aside, that radiator is for, /6 i believe: center inlet, and pass side outlet.

that's marginal at best for a V8

also the accordion hose looks like a lump on a sore dick, take care of that mess. and like CM said, adios that flex fan while you're there.

on the AC, a lot of aftermarket intakes don't work with the mounting brackets so keep that in mind going forward.

you've got good bones there, and a lot of options so that's at least the good news.

I've been lucky enough to never have any such sores or lumps.... Got it. I will redo all that shortly. Just trying to get it so I can run it around the block a few times. I looked at the lower radiator hose, the routing seems ok to me but maybe I'm missing something.

 

[Mattax]

I've been lucky enough to never have any such sores or lumps.... Got it. I will redo all that shortly. Just trying to get it so I can run it around the block a few times. I looked at the lower radiator hose, the routing seems ok to me but maybe I'm missing something.

When got my 67 Barracuda it had a later slant six radiator. It worked OK even when I put the 340 with the 70 up water pump in it. Unlike a correct pre 70 v-8 radiator, it was possible to find both upper and lower radiator hoses without resorting to flex hoses (never good for flow). However especially with A/C, in the summer stopped in traffic, thats when fan shroud and sufficient core will become important.

Another story from yore.
At some point I lucked into finding a factory flex fan at a junkyard.

Leaving the parking lot at Chancelerville (CW Battle) luck ran out. Half a blade seperated from the rest and fortunately the side of the battery tray took the majority of the hit. Limped into Fredricksburg with some directions to a parts store. Replaced the battery, the waterpump, the fan and used up my supply of baking powder that was my backpack for emergencies. Fortunately did not hole radiator. However my salvage yard fan shroud was out of action for the rest of the trip.

So much for factory parts. LOL. There was probably just a little crack that had started where the flexible blade was riveted to the stiff center.

PS Those bubble top radiators are somewhat scarce so if you ever don't need, find it a good home. They fit nicely in the pre 70 cars.

 

[shep76]

When got my 67 Barracuda it had a later slant six radiator. It worked OK even when I put the 340 with the 70 up water pump in it. Unlike a correct pre 70 v-8 radiator, it was possible to find both upper and lower radiator hoses without resorting to flex hoses (never good for flow). However especially with A/C, in the summer stopped in traffic, thats when fan shroud and sufficient core will become important.

Another story from yore.
At some point I lucked into finding a factory flex fan at a junkyard.

Leaving the parking lot at Chancelerville (CW Battle) luck ran out. Half a blade seperated from the rest and fortunately the side of the battery tray took the majority of the hit. Limped into Fredricksburg with some directions to a parts store. Replaced the battery, the waterpump, the fan and used up my supply of baking powder that was my backpack for emergencies. Fortunately did not hole radiator. However my salvage yard fan shroud was out of action for the rest of the trip.

So much for factory parts. LOL. There was probably just a little crack that had started where the flexible blade was riveted to the stiff center.

PS Those bubble top radiators are somewhat scarce so if you ever don't need, find it a good home. They fit nicely in the pre 70 cars.

Ha! My life has gotten a bit too safe. I like doing the timing and wondering when one of those blades is going to impale me. So is the issue that the pre 70 V8's had the intake hose on the other side of the engine? Can I just take my /6 radiator to shop and have a core added or beefed up in some other way? I have a Cadillac motor in my 50 chevy pickup and I have an ugly routing of the lower hose... These darn radiator hose issues seem to be following me.

 

[4spdragtop]

Lots of good advice here. As far as as working on a new to you car and working out the bugs. Scrap the ac idea for now. We got all the factory ac stuff for ours and we said f that, we wanted to have less stuff in the way.
When u mock up the alt, you don't need the spacer INITIALLY that Mattax showed in his 1st pic. Once you have it mocked and in proper spot, measure the gap and verify correct spacer. Also there are different alternator adjustment arms with different bends etc.
Good luck.

 

[4spdragtop]

There is "sometimes" a spacer mounted in the rear alternator arm itself, see pic. Here's a pic of 2 different alt arms. I have a 3rd style on our 67 cuda. Lotsa variables lol.

 

[junkyardhero]

I've been lucky enough to never have any such sores or lumps.... Got it. I will redo all that shortly. Just trying to get it so I can run it around the block a few times. I looked at the lower radiator hose, the routing seems ok to me but maybe I'm missing something.

lower rad looks okay from the pic.

just for future edification, on V8 69 on down and 70+ are their own systems with timing covers, water pumps, dampeners, pulleys, (some) brackets being specific to each set.

this doesn't necessarily affect you in that you've got a later 360, but it is something to consider when trying to upgrade things like the radiator, fan, power steering or AC

 

[junkyardhero]

So is the issue that the pre 70 V8's had the intake hose on the other side of the engine? Can I just take my /6 radiator to shop and have a core added or beefed up in some other way?

yeah, sort of. it's all interchangeable but with the change over the waterpump outlet moved along with the timing marks on the timing and the lower radiator outlet. so if you run the wrong combo of parts you either can't see the timing marks or you have to jog the lower radiator hose from one side to the other directly under the fan.

you could take the rad to a shop and have them add a core to make it 3 and move the upper inlet to a "more correct" location. dead center isn't great because of possible interference with the fan and if it's in the "correct-ish" location you can run a stock hose that fits nice and looks good!

depending on the cost of adding a core and moving the pipe, i'd maybe look toward an aluminum aftermarket solution.

I have a Cadillac motor in my 50 chevy pickup and I have an ugly routing of the lower hose... These darn radiator hose issues seem to be following me.

time to break the cycle amigo!

parts of a molded hose and some solid tube can make for a much cleaner and solid install. here's a vast selection of them: Coolant Tubes - Free Shipping on Orders Over $109 at Summit Racing

 

[shep76]

yeah, sort of. it's all interchangeable but with the change over the waterpump outlet moved along with the timing marks on the timing and the lower radiator outlet. so if you run the wrong combo of parts you either can't see the timing marks or you have to jog the lower radiator hose from one side to the other directly under the fan.

you could take the rad to a shop and have them add a core to make it 3 and move the upper inlet to a "more correct" location. dead center isn't great because of possible interference with the fan and if it's in the "correct-ish" location you can run a stock hose that fits nice and looks good!

depending on the cost of adding a core and moving the pipe, i'd maybe look toward an aluminum aftermarket solution.


time to break the cycle amigo!

parts of a molded hose and some solid tube can make for a much cleaner and solid install. here's a vast selection of them: Coolant Tubes - Free Shipping on Orders Over $109 at Summit Racing

Thank you. What is issue with just using a 1970 radiator? This would give the correct orientation, no?

 

[Mattax]

You'll probably have to modify it for fit. Things like slot the mounting holes so it fits lower, and what I did on one is also desolder the mounting brackets and reattach so the core and tanks were as far forward as possible. Didn't need to do all that on the /6 replacment squaretops but did on the v-8 squaretop I had.

340 radiator

is the difference between 1968 and 1970 340 radiators the bottom radiator outlet is on the drivers side on 70-72 and passengerside 67-69?

www.forabodiesonly.com

If you run a regular fan, then finding the right spacer to clear should be doable.
I ran the 5 blade 'Mopar Performance' clutch fan (after the flex fan incident) which is why I increased the clearance as much as possible.
It moved the air pretty well and may have been OK stuck in summer traffic if there was a fan shroud. But there wasn't and coolant temps would slowly climb when not moving in hot weather. Didn't happen often but it happened. Never enjoyable, and always less than thrilling running the heater fan in the summer. That's all with no A/C.
When the bubble top went in, I bought the correct fan (used) and clutch (new), and shroud (new).

 

[junkyardhero]

Thank you. What is issue with just using a 1970 radiator? This would give the correct orientation, no?

oh, you certainly can. but as Mathew notes, there may be some adjustments necessary as they don't mount exactly the same. generally it's just in getting the mounting right so that you have space for the fan and the top clears the hood.

 

[harrisonm]

69 Dart, 360 (don't know where it came out of). My alternator is cracked and looks to be pretty crooked.... Is it possible I need the single pulley alternator for this set up? Does anyone know what set ups used single and which setups used dual pulleys? Or is this kind of a try and return type of thing?

View attachment 1716207740

View attachment 1716207741

Put the belt on the outer groove.

I can see from here that the outer groove would line up better. Try it.

 

[shep76]

yeah, sort of. it's all interchangeable but with the change over the waterpump outlet moved along with the timing marks on the timing and the lower radiator outlet. so if you run the wrong combo of parts you either can't see the timing marks or you have to jog the lower radiator hose from one side to the other directly under the fan.

you could take the rad to a shop and have them add a core to make it 3 and move the upper inlet to a "more correct" location. dead center isn't great because of possible interference with the fan and if it's in the "correct-ish" location you can run a stock hose that fits nice and looks good!

depending on the cost of adding a core and moving the pipe, i'd maybe look toward an aluminum aftermarket solution.


time to break the cycle amigo!

parts of a molded hose and some solid tube can make for a much cleaner and solid install. here's a vast selection of them: Coolant Tubes - Free Shipping on Orders Over $109 at Summit

You'll probably have to modify it for fit. Things like slot the mounting holes so it fits lower, and what I did on one is also desolder the mounting brackets and reattach so the core and tanks were as far forward as possible. Didn't need to do all that on the /6 replacment squaretops but did on the v-8 squaretop I had.

http://[URL]https://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/threads/340-radiator.418366/post-1972239819

[/URL]

If you run a regular fan, then finding the right spacer to clear should be doable.
I ran the 5 blade 'Mopar Performance' clutch fan (after the flex fan incident) which is why I increased the clearance as much as possible.
It moved the air pretty well and may have been OK stuck in summer traffic if there was a fan shroud. But there wasn't and coolant temps would slowly climb when not moving in hot weather. Didn't happen often but it happened. Never enjoyable, and always less than thrilling running the heater fan in the summer. That's all with no A/C.
When the bubble top went in, I bought the correct fan (used) and clutch (new), and shroud (new).

Are there any negatives to just using an older water pump? The cast iron ones are fairly reasonable in price. Is it just the timing marks that are the issue?