Slant 6 Turbo 68Dart Project

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Brandon Weaver said:
I hate to be THAT guy, but for your goal of 200 horse, N/A would've been by the book, more reliable, a breeze... even with a slant six :eek:ops:

Sorry! lol but you get to learn a LOT this way! (not that you don't learn plenty when you go into the science/theory of n/a)
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if you dont wanna be THAT guy its simple, dont. not everyone takes the beaten path. show me an n/a slant with 400hp that can still be street driven, idles normally, and still gets 20+mpg. im sure once he gets it worked out he will have absolutely zero regrets.
 
RustyPlymouth said:
if you dont wanna be THAT guy its simple, dont. not everyone takes the beaten path. show me an n/a slant with 400hp that can still be street driven, idles normally, and still gets 20+mpg. im sure once he gets it worked out he will have absolutely zero regrets.
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This is INSANE.... like a really bad dream!

I haven't suggested anything because I have NO IDEA what in the hell could be going on to cause this puzzling syndrome.

The only thing I could think of to do would be to leave all the exhaust plumbing intact, as installed, down to the turbo, and forget about hooking up any of the cold-side plumbing.

Get someone to help you do this: Start the engine, put it into drive, and apply the brake AS HARD AS YOU CAN.

Oh, and, disconnect the cold side plumbing from the turbo outlet before you start the engine.

NOW, have your helper hold his hand over the turbo's cold-side outlet, so that he can feel any pressure being generated by the spinning turbo impeller as you apply stall-speed throttle, remembering that the brakes must be locked, HARD!

I mean HARD!!!

There should be enough pressure generated during this exercise to blow his hand off the turbo outlet. There is your boost. OR NOT.

If no boost is generated, we need to find out why.

This exercise eliminates all gauge errors, all plugged-up plumbing , or cold-side plumbing leaks, and should tell you whether your problem is actually an exhaust leak of one kind or another, definitively.

I cannot imagine an exhaust leak that that would be capable of making an engine do what this engine is doing (no boost at all, under any cirumstances,) that didn't make itself known with a very loud noise,

Be VERY CAREFUL with this stall speed deal as you could kill somebody very easily... VERY EASILY, but it can be done with a modicum of safety, if you are careful.
Just be sure that your helper isn't standing on front of the car, and go down on the throttle very slowly.... in fact, to be truly safe, position the car against a strong (brick?) wall, so it CANNOT move, when you do this; he can stand alongside the fender. No way to get hurt like that.

Good luck!!!

I'm thinking there WILL be boost, but it's being "lost" somewhere between the turbo and the carb hat.

I am sure you'll let us know; you are amazingly good at communication, and I really admire that!
 
Well, I am banking on too much exhaust being lost. In the last couple days the engine bay is a lot louder than it was a few days ago. I suspect the exhaust leak worked whatever gasket was between the manifolds out, or maybe it's bent or something. I know this because you can hear a metallic rattle while the motor runs, and if you hold the spring on the exhaust plate/ riser door, the noise stops. I can literally hear the plate shake inside the manifold LOUD, plus coupled with the hot air blowing all around it, I'm really pushing for this being the issue. Tomorrow I will dismount the intake manifold again, and see what I can find out.
 
i know they are pricey but IMHO the reflex heat riser gasket is the best way to seal them the thin metal gasket isnt going to do the job most of the time. if you get the manifold to head gasket the riser gasket comes with it. i run the manifold to head gasket and use the riser for my block off plate. ill never go back to the over the counter gaskets.
 
I had just the thin piece of metal they give you with the head gasket kit from when I rebuilt the head and remounted it. As suspected it wasn't the diverter plate rattling, but the metal gasket itself just chattering between the manifolds even though it was down tight. I have a copper solution being made up for it as we speak that I hope will do the job.

With a melting point of just over 1900* I'd assume the 600-1000 temps within the manifold should be ok on it, and it is thicker than the actual gap so I'm hoping it just gets crushed on there to shape.
 
I'm hazarding another guess. Seems unlikely you could leak that much exhaust without really seeing & smelling it under the hood. Might seem goofy but I'd put on a leather glove, maybe a rag, and try blocking the exhaust at idle while observing under the hood and feeling how much exhaust pressure it builds. Another idea is to make it steam by squirting water in the carb, or squirting some mixed gas in to make it smoke while watching under the hood. I know, more farmer type thinking.
 
the manifolds need to be able to "float" against each other. dont crank down on it to hard. you will know you went to hard if one of the manifolds crack after a couple heat cycles.
 
The manifolds are cranked down together at the same pressure as the manifolds are mounted to the head - about 10'lbs. I reassembled the whole ordeal and now the motor doesn't sound like an aircraft trying to take off and is quieter.

Originally the underhood area got smelly and loud, and I had to roll the windows down to cut the smell, so I figured there was a leak - because this has happened before with the old manifold. The new gasket is in place and now hot exhaust is no longer blowing out from between them. The exhaust is now escaping through some kind of pinhole between the turbo and the turbo bracket. It is a tiny tiny jet stream of air, so I should be able to utilize the turbo now, and there is only a slight tiny leak. This other one was gargantuan. There was a nice black stain all over the side of the head and block behind the manifold. I will take it out in a bit and see if I can finally make some pressure.

THis makes about the 12th time I've removed the manifolds from this car, I'm starting to get pretty good at replacing those triangle washers underneath the manifolds.

Also this problem would make sense since originally I was making about 2psi then when I swapped J pipes it didn't make anything. I think after time the RTv I used to hold the Manifold riser gasket on blew out and then just started leaking. This was also evidenced by all the RTV copper on the bottom of the intake manifold. Hopefully this was the issue and I can move on to tuning. I still don't know yet. I will report back after a short drive later tonight.
 
THAT WAS IT, we got pressure

I pulled out of the driveway and after stalling about three times trying to get going (no choke) I turned the corner and pushed the gas just a little. The turbo spooled very audibly and the car moved forward like it was light as a feather. I let of the gas and TISSSSSH the blow off valve let off the pressure.

After some giggling at the stop sign I hit it again (this time a little harder) and it spooled up to a good 5psi and then I cruised up to the next stop sign rather quickly. After that i drove kind of normal like I would before the turbo and it spooled every time and the blow off valve hit every time the throttle closed, till I hit the last corner to turn home and the blow off valve didn't activate (excitedly) I opened the hood when I got home and saw the silicone hose that connects the turbo to the first leg of piping had popped off the turbo. AWESOME! It seems like that'd be a bad thing but I am rather happy about it because before I couldn't get this thing to blow my hand off the opening and now its blowing piping apart.

Luckily, the hose I had just not tightened at all on the clamp when I reassembled the intake tubing the last time I was working on the car. So in the morning I'll reattach the piece of silicone and drive it to work and now the tuning can actually start!
 
That is freakin' awesome!!!! Glad to hear you got it worked out! That must have been a mighty leak to not spool it at all!
 
DNasty777 said:
That is freakin' awesome!!!! Glad to hear you got it worked out! That must have been a mighty leak to not spool it at all!
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I guess it was just spinning from what little exhaust it saw before, but now it's very obvious that it's functioning. Once I hooked the exhaust up to the turbo a little while ago you couldn't hear the turbo at all. NOW - it is ALL you hear. You can't even hear the motor. It's almost like a car powered by wind if you know what I mean.
 
Hell yeah I know what you mean! Nothing sounds better than a turbo spoolin' up! This has me seriously reconsidering going V8 and rebuilding/turboing my slanty.
 
Serj22 said:
THAT WAS IT, we got pressure

I pulled out of the driveway and after stalling about three times trying to get going (no choke) I turned the corner and pushed the gas just a little. The turbo spooled very audibly and the car moved forward like it was light as a feather. I let of the gas and TISSSSSH the blow off valve let off the pressure.

After some giggling at the stop sign I hit it again (this time a little harder) and it spooled up to a good 5psi and then I cruised up to the next stop sign rather quickly. After that i drove kind of normal like I would before the turbo and it spooled every time and the blow off valve hit every time the throttle closed, till I hit the last corner to turn home and the blow off valve didn't activate (excitedly) I opened the hood when I got home and saw the silicone hose that connects the turbo to the first leg of piping had popped off the turbo. AWESOME! It seems like that'd be a bad thing but I am rather happy about it because before I couldn't get this thing to blow my hand off the opening and now its blowing piping apart.

Luckily, the hose I had just not tightened at all on the clamp when I reassembled the intake tubing the last time I was working on the car. So in the morning I'll reattach the piece of silicone and drive it to work and now the tuning can actually start!
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GREAT NEWS!!

Now, you'l find out just how addictive boost is.... lol!:blob:
 
sounds like you are hooked. glad to hear you got it going. tuning isnt as much fun as putting it all together but the results are worth it. i use zip ties on most of my referencing hoses. two little ones per hose. get them tight and behind the bulb and they stay on.
 
Today was filled with more fun. Instead of going back to work after lunch I was greeted by mass quantities of oil all over the road. i looked under the hood and the whole left side of the engine bay was really shiny now and oily. I found the issue - the oil feed line going into the turbo. The turbo flange itself was not leaking but where the hose met the barb failed somehow and the hose was just spraying oil - lemme tell you - I definitly have some oil pressure because that stuff was all over the steering box, firewall, radiator - everything.

I now bought some new brass fittings and had to install them in the parking lot of the hardware store, then went to start the car and SNAP!!! The throttle cable blew apart. Lucky me I had those 2 throttle cables just in case I needed to reroute something which had a new end on it I can use (the end is what broke). Unlucky was the cables were at home - so I thought to connect a string to the throttle and route it under the hood and pull on it out the window - reminiscent of a time where my dad's wipers quit during a rainy day and we had to pull them manually -

But anyway, that didn't work - the string i had broke while getting cut on the hood - so I set the idle to about 1500rpm and then used the brakes to drive the mile home. Luckily it was all downhill.

Now I'm home, about to eat some lunch, have a new end on the cable that will work handsomely, and the oil leak is fixed. Unluckily I can't finish the project I was doing at work, so there goes half a day's pay - but since right now it's just me and my dad working on this restoration - I don't think he'll fire me. :D Plus I rescue him all the time when his POS breaks down - no questions asked "where are you? I'll be there in a sec." Unfortunately his pos is broke for good so this is the only car we got for supply runs so he understood. lol.

Now for the oil mess.
 
Ok, oil mess cleaned, block looks cleaner than it did before the oil slick. lol. The K frame is still pretty doused, I'll have to find a way to get rid of that somewhere where I won't get complained about doing it - because it's a good 1/2 quart hanging out on it...

Luckily car did not run low on oil during this fun time, and it's still good.

The throttle cable is fixed and ready to go back out. I may add some more leverage and lengthen the Holley throttle arm. I believe the cable is straining too hard and at a weird angle. If I add some material about 1" longer, the cable can pull vertically and that may work better.

While I was under the hood I also wrapped the downpipe a bit, and wiped down most of the rest of the engine bay. Now to just drive around and see what happens next.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShEXj4EoeMs"]1968 Dodge Dart Turbo 5psi - YouTube[/ame]
 
Sounds great!

As for cleaning...a late night trip to Jack Anthony's 7 flags car wash may be in order. :D



Mike

Serj22 said:
Ok, oil mess cleaned, block looks cleaner than it did before the oil slick. lol. The K frame is still pretty doused, I'll have to find a way to get rid of that somewhere where I won't get complained about doing it - because it's a good 1/2 quart hanging out on it...

Luckily car did not run low on oil during this fun time, and it's still good.

The throttle cable is fixed and ready to go back out. I may add some more leverage and lengthen the Holley throttle arm. I believe the cable is straining too hard and at a weird angle. If I add some material about 1" longer, the cable can pull vertically and that may work better.

While I was under the hood I also wrapped the downpipe a bit, and wiped down most of the rest of the engine bay. Now to just drive around and see what happens next.

1968 Dodge Dart Turbo 5psi - YouTube
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sounds good. back the adjustment off of the bov a little at a time and figure out where it doesnt do that reverberation and go a little further.
 
Well, tomorrow is going to be a big clean up day. I will secure all the wiring I did, rerun the fuel line from the regulator to the carb with some nice braided line, and attaching my freshly made valve cover. After that I'll give a good scrub to the engine bay, pull all the tools off the floorboards of the car, and put them in their proper location (in a pile in the trunk) lol - no in a tool bag, then mysteriously make the oil all over the K-frame dissapear... who knows where it will go. :D

Alongside all the cleaning i will be tuning the fuel delivery, because I get a nice lag and bog once i make about 4psi, the car goes to 5, then decelerates all on its own and then it starts accelerating again, without moving the gas pedal.

The other thing is it will have to go back to incompetent big-o because now my brake pedal will come all the way up to the steering column and I don't remember ever being able to do that. Also the brake lights are again doing their intermettent stay on thing, and wouldn't you know, it still pulls to the right. :banghead:
 
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