Slant six turbo cost analysis: 300 hp

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Bill Dedman

Bill Dedman

bill dedman
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This will attempt to determine the actual cost of building a (nominal) 300 hp slant six with a blow-thru carbureted, turbocharged 225 engine that will feature stock-type (cast aluminum) pistons and stock 225 rods It will be limited to 10 pounds of boost, without a chemical intercooler, and 12 pounds, with a water/alky injector.

Let the games begin....:happy1:

All contibutions/ideas will be appreciated!!!
 
i dont think it can be done with only 10-12psi. would need at least 15. i was pretty close with 14 and a front mount intercooler before my turbo took a crap. im about $1200 into it.
 
I'm well over $1500 and haven't put a dime into anything that wasn't outside the motor. No internals.
 
Bill how's things going buddy
Here's a basic run down of parts that can beused up to 500 horse maybe this will get tthings started
1. Walbro 392 fuel pump $100
2. Mallory 4903 boost ref fuel pressure regulator $100
3. This can vary but new fuel line and return line and fittings will be needed $100 to $300 depending need and style of hose
4. Intercooler piping and couplers depending on if there going to run a intercooler or not kits for piping and couplers go for $100 with intercooler $200
5. Hanger 18 mods depends on two or four barrel but new parts can be had for around $100
6. CARB hat for a better one your looking at $150
7. Wideband O2 its a must $200
8. Exhaust tube for the hotside and turbo Inlet with a pishta style U bend and 2.5 inch back $300
9. Whatever turbo you decide to use is strictly up to the builder

Most of these parts will bridge the gap and can be used up too 500 hp
Aaron
 
I just purchased a few of these things on my build. I'm just verifying most of what was just said with my own experience. The Walbro 392 can be had for $90, and it comes with fittings and a mounting kit. Ebay was the only place I could find it that low. MY intercooler and piping kit was $130. It came with enough piping to build two slant intakes, and a 28" x 4" x 8" intercooler. You just have to take some remover to the words "JDM sport" on all the couplers. A small price to pay.

The regulator you mentioned I see mentioned a lot and suggested heavily around the net. No matter where I have looked, there is NO regulator that will work to be had for less than $100. The first one I bought wound up being for EFI and you could not get a baseline below 40psi. The new one I got is by QFT. It's a quick Fuel technology 30-1899. I got it off Amazon for $120. It allows you to put Holley style jets in it (facing the pump) to better adjust whatever you need to do and has a boost reference port on top. It is adjustable from 2-9 psi baseline, and increases 1:1. I bought it because it was the quickest shipping thing I could get to quit spraying gasoline all over the place. See my build thread if you are not familiar with what happened. lol The exhaust costing $300 is probably accurate.

I can find the U bends all day on Jeggs for less than $20. The turbo flange itslef is around $15 anywhere, and then an exhaust flange is 2-3$. The wastegate flanges if you use them are around $5.00/piece and almsot no one makes them because everything is V-band now. V-band is much more convenient for sure, but those flanges cost money too. You could do the whole U/J pipe for about $50 if you assemble it yourself. If you don't have a welder, expect to pay someone else to, so that has to be taken into account. BUT that's if it's made of steel/ mild steel. If it's made of stainless, the flange costs double, and the pipe may as well - I'm not sure.

Also, $200 must be included for all the bolts and fittings you forgot to buy with the other stuff - guaranteed. The turbos I've seen seem to neglect having any hardware included for mounting. ALso -AN fittings are not cheap at about $8-$10 for ONE fitting if you need to buy it at the store. Then there's the brass fittings for tapping your oil sender, the drain fittings, etc...
 
My first build prior to EFI. This is embarrassing......
CT26 turbo..$40 craigslist...started it all!
carb hat off diesel..$20 Fall fling
350 Holley carb $25 Ebay
hanger 18 mods..free.
ducting...1 piece. free, came with other turbo I flipped for same price
boost regulated fuel pump..free. just a pressure line modded stocker
Pish-pipe ;-) $20
turbo and exhaust flange..$2 and a scrap piece I made for turbo (too thin)
brass fittings...scraps off other stuff.
exhaust...$12 flex pipe..autozone
header wrap...$15..car show
blow off valve..$18..ebay.
oil lines were trans cooler lines and an A.I.R manifold I cut.
all welding done by me (and you can tell!)
silicone fittings..$15..ebay

I never dynod this and only ran it a few times so no HP results..but it pulled much harder than the original slant, and much louder as I think I had a turbo flange leak. No meth, no intercooler, no boost control. The wastegate was stock at 6 so it was pretty mild. would love to go 15 just to break something but the leaking flange was like a wastegate itself.

All this stuff can be bought new for $$ or sourced from scrap piles like mine. Have fun.
 
Serj22 said:
Just saw "SLANT SUX"

that's mean bill.
Click to expand...

You have to know, given my all-too evident, mindset. that it was an honest typo.

I tried to correct it, but the program that presents this website, has so little flexibility, that it was not possible.

So, I P-M'd Joey, and asked him to do it for me, since I cannot.

Guess he either didn't see the message, hasn't gotten around to it, or just doesn't care.

Maybe YOU could P-M him and ask him to change it, since he won't do it for me...

Or, maybe HE can't...
Dunno, but I hate it...:disgust:
 

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RustyPlymouth said:
i dont think it can be done with only 10-12psi. would need at least 15. i was pretty close with 14 and a front mount intercooler before my turbo took a crap. im about $1200 into it.
Click to expand...

I believe I said a "nominal" 300 hp. That was a very poor choice of words.

What I should have said, was "approximately" 300 hp, because it likely won't make 300 as I described it... but, maybe 270... You can have a lot of fun with 270 hp in a light (2,700-pound) a body... That's like 420 hp in a new Challenger...

But, it's just a matter of boost....:blob:

My 2670-pound a body, below...
 

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Bill Dedman said:
This will attempt to determine the actual cost of building a (nominal) 300 hp slant six with a blow-thru carbureted, turbocharged 225 engine that will feature stock-type (cast aluminum) pistons and stock 225 rods It will be limited to 10 pounds of boost, without a chemical intercooler, and 12 pounds, with a water/alky injector.

Let the games begin....:happy1:

All contibutions/ideas will be appreciated!!!
Click to expand...

Time to get started with this "el cheapo," slightly more reasonabally-priced version of the forced induction slant six, 225 variety:

Block, crank, pistons and rods will all be free, because they likely will be. The machine work to "freshen-up' what needs attention, probably won't run more than $500.00, and would include turning the crank .010"/'010:, honing the cylinders, and installing new 1.75"/1.5" valves in the un-ported head.

A set of rings should run no more than $212.00.

Rod and main bearings will be about $50.00, with a new Fel Pro head gasket for $17.00

A new timing chain and sprockets will run about $38.00...

A Super Six 2bbl intake will likely be $150.00.

A Holley 2bbl 2300-series carb in the 500cfm size will be whatever you can find one for; probably, $250.00...

Blow-thru mods might run $500.00, or a LOT less, if you are capable of doing them, yourself.

Stock rockers, pushrods, a new set of solid, flat tappet lifters will be about $60.00.

Valve springs will run (340's) about $90.00 (ebay.) Maybe less, elsewhere...

Time is over for this session; more later...

Subtotal, so far: $1,967.00

As always, feel free to add comments, facts, opinions, etc... all are welcomed, here...
 
The stock super six manifold people treat a little more like gold than it is. You LIKELY won't find one for under $150.00 unless you found it in a junkyard yourself.

Also blowthrough mods shouldn't cost $500 if being done by yourself.
Nitrophyl float would be about $20.00 and making a power valve is free if you have a bench grinder and some JB weld. Hacking the choke tower off is free or can be done with a $7.00 hacksaw, and then after that it's just drilling a rejetting.
 
srixon4406 said:
Bill how's things going buddy
Here's a basic run down of parts that can beused up to 500 horse maybe this will get tthings started
1. Walbro 392 fuel pump $100
2. Mallory 4903 boost ref fuel pressure regulator $100
3. This can vary but new fuel line and return line and fittings will be needed $100 to $300 depending need and style of hose
4. Intercooler piping and couplers depending on if there going to run a intercooler or not kits for piping and couplers go for $100 with intercooler $200
5. Hanger 18 mods depends on two or four barrel but new parts can be had for around $100
6. CARB hat for a better one your looking at $150
7. Wideband O2 its a must $200
8. Exhaust tube for the hotside and turbo Inlet with a pishta style U bend and 2.5 inch back $300
9. Whatever turbo you decide to use is strictly up to the builder

Most of these parts will bridge the gap and can be used up too 500 hp
Aaron
Click to expand...

Aaron, sorry to be so late with this, but spending 3 1/2 hours at the hospital for various and sundry kinds of therapy a day, three hours visiting my wife at the nursing home where she's lived for the last 5 years, and 4 hours on Monday rehearsing our 5-piece combo, and 5 hours rehearsing the big band I play bass in, on Thursdays, doesn't leave a lot of time for keyboard antics, if I am EVER going to finish this pile of nuts and bolts I have been working on for the last 4 1/2 years...
IN SHORT, IT'S GOING WELL, IN THAT i finally was able to get a trailer, and have very little to do to the car (Just jetting the secondaries) before it is "strip ready,"

How are you coming with the Toad???
 

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Serj22 said:
The stock super six manifold people treat a little more like gold than it is. You LIKELY won't find one for under $150.00 unless you found it in a junkyard yourself.

Also blowthrough mods shouldn't cost $500 if being done by yourself.
Nitrophyl float would be about $20.00 and making a power valve is free if you have a bench grinder and some JB weld. Hacking the choke tower off is free or can be done with a $7.00 hacksaw, and then after that it's just drilling a rejetting.
Click to expand...

Well, what you say is very true, as far as it goes, but I, for one, am not qualified to do the sort of intricate detail-work necessary to effect the Hangar-18 mods; particularly, not the power valve changes for the boost-referencing, so I elected to outsource it, and hope that $500.00 is not too low... probably is... I thing guys like yourself, who can do the work to bring these Hangar-18 mods to fruition, are in the minority, and most folks would rather pay the freight, and be assured that the carb is going to work... because, if it doesn't, it can produce a multitude of expensive problems, and can do it unnoticed, and very quickly.:eek:ops:

Thanks for the suggestions and info. I'll get around to incorporating this into the main info page, soon (I hope!):coffee2:
 
c&s and csu charge around $750 for a blowthrough carb. you still need to tune it though. it may be cheaper if you supply the carb but its still ridiculously expensive. the mods really are easy though, cut off the choke horn and epoxy a couple holes, foam floats and you are ready to start tuning on low boost. the brpv's are well documented on www.theturboforums.com . as with anything it will need to be tuned to your particular setup but its cheap and if you have the time its easy. i got my setup together and tuned in one season. if i were to put more time into it and take it to the track probably could have had it done in a few days or less. not to mention the hundreds saved.
 
ok here is the majority of the parts from my build. it is capable of 300+hp and most of the parts are good for 500+. only things i have done to my motor are a comp cams 264s, 340 valve springs and fresh rings. i suspect i might have been better off with the stock cam but i would recommend the springs if your motor is high milage.

hp valve springs $40 ebay
used holley 600-650 double pumper $50-$150 new $450. setup for blowthrough $550-$750
rebuild kit for carb $35-$45
hangar 18 mods are easy. if you can rebuild a carb you can do these mods. seems like a lot when you first read through it but its really easy when you break it down and start doing it.
nitrophyl floats $12 on ebay
spectre 9849 carb hat $65-$100 for high and low profile 98499
aem uego wideband o2 sensor and gauge $170-$230 plug and play, works well
ebay/china t3/t4 turbo kit w/ oil line, bov, wastegate, heat shield and exhaust flange $189. this turbo actually recently took a crap on me. spend some more for your turbo lol. hx35's can be had for around $200 used and will push up to 27psi efficiently. they are hearty and hold up well. you pay for a quality turbo with them not just the name. cxracing has a line of gt35's that are sized right for a slant. they are american engineered and china built. they stand behind their turbos and have a good customer base. their turbos seem to hold up pretty well. you could find a grand national turbo but i think 300hp is just about the limit if not stretching the breath of that particular turbo.
turbo $100-$5k
ebay 31x11x3.5 bar & plate front mount intercooler $98 this actually turned out to be a quality piece. really happy with it.
ebay 3" intercooler piping $109-$150 depending on couplings, bends and diameter
2.25 j pipe $35 jeggs all day.
3/8" exhaust flange that bolts up to the stock manifold $5-$10
t3 flange $10-$20 including gasket
2.5"-3" exhaust adapter $7 not necissary, i just wanted 3" exhaust. lol.
4bbl intake $100-$175
stock exhaust manifold hogged out, free
oil return pipe, scavenged from a dsm turbo i had kits are $30-$60
brake line for oil feed, vacuum, boost referencing $25 for 25' you are not going to use it all but its always nice to have some brake line.
boost/vacuum gauge $15-$40
regulator and electric pump are a must. if you have done your reading you will have come across an article on allpar that states the mechanical pump referenced will work up to 16psi. i found it inadequate for 8psi. going lean with a turbo is bad. real bad.
mallory 4309 and aeromotive 13301 are pretty common and work well. both priced around $100
walbro 255 inline pump with mounting kit $90
felpro 2104 steel reinforced carb to carb hat gasket $10-$20
throw in an extra $100 for various fittings AN,oil feed, just all kinds of random stuff that is overlooked.
if you dont run an internal wastegate you will need an external $60-$300. spend some money on this its what is going to keep your turbo from over spooling and blowing your engine.
bov $20-$300. gonna wanna spend some money on this too. cheap will get you by but you get what you pay for. im currently running a $35 piece and it surges. got a nice synapse to put on when i get it running again.
mushroom air filter $15

if i can think of anything else i will add it to this post. this setup will produce 300+hp probably closer to 450 or whatever you can get before the head starts to lift. the weak link in this setup is the turbo in my case. change that out and everything else is good for 500hp aside from the motor internals.
 
RustyPlymouth said:
ok here is the majority of the parts from my build. it is capable of 300+hp and most of the parts are good for 500+. only things i have done to my motor are a comp cams 264s, 340 valve springs and fresh rings. i suspect i might have been better off with the stock cam but i would recommend the springs if your motor is high milage.

2.5"-3" exhaust adapter $7 not necissary, i just wanted 3" exhaust. lol.
Snipped!
.
Click to expand...


Wow! Great information!
Thanks for sharing all of that. You now have me looking at inline fuel pumps and filters. I may start with the factory fuel pump and evolve up to the one you mentioned. I also would like to run 3" pipes and just got the Turbo outlet customized for that, and just got the v clamp to see if I can clamp the pipe on instead of welding on to it.

Just ordered more odds and ends to do the battery swap this weekend to make room for the turbo in the battery area on the fender. New u/j/Pish pipe on the way this weekend as well.

Learning a lot from everyone here about their builds, hopefully save myself from making a mess of things. :cheers:

Mike
 
RustyPlymouth said:
ok here is the majority of the parts from my build. it is capable of 300+hp and most of the parts are good for 500+. only things i have done to my motor are a comp cams 264s, 340 valve springs and fresh rings. i suspect i might have been better off with the stock cam but i would recommend the springs if your motor is high milage.

hp valve springs $40 ebay
used holley 600-650 double pumper $50-$150 new $450. setup for blowthrough $550-$750
rebuild kit for carb $35-$45
hangar 18 mods are easy. if you can rebuild a carb you can do these mods. seems like a lot when you first read through it but its really easy when you break it down and start doing it.
nitrophyl floats $12 on ebay
spectre 9849 carb hat $65-$100 for high and low profile 98499
aem uego wideband o2 sensor and gauge $170-$230 plug and play, works well
ebay/china t3/t4 turbo kit w/ oil line, bov, wastegate, heat shield and exhaust flange $189. this turbo actually recently took a crap on me. spend some more for your turbo lol. hx35's can be had for around $200 used and will push up to 27psi efficiently. they are hearty and hold up well. you pay for a quality turbo with them not just the name. cxracing has a line of gt35's that are sized right for a slant. they are american engineered and china built. they stand behind their turbos and have a good customer base. their turbos seem to hold up pretty well. you could find a grand national turbo but i think 300hp is just about the limit if not stretching the breath of that particular turbo.
turbo $100-$5k
ebay 31x11x3.5 bar & plate front mount intercooler $98 this actually turned out to be a quality piece. really happy with it.
ebay 3" intercooler piping $109-$150 depending on couplings, bends and diameter
2.25 j pipe $35 jeggs all day.
3/8" exhaust flange that bolts up to the stock manifold $5-$10
t3 flange $10-$20 including gasket
2.5"-3" exhaust adapter $7 not necissary, i just wanted 3" exhaust. lol.
4bbl intake $100-$175
stock exhaust manifold hogged out, free
oil return pipe, scavenged from a dsm turbo i had kits are $30-$60
brake line for oil feed, vacuum, boost referencing $25 for 25' you are not going to use it all but its always nice to have some brake line.
boost/vacuum gauge $15-$40
regulator and electric pump are a must. if you have done your reading you will have come across an article on allpar that states the mechanical pump referenced will work up to 16psi. i found it inadequate for 8psi. going lean with a turbo is bad. real bad.
mallory 4309 and aeromotive 13301 are pretty common and work well. both priced around $100
walbro 255 inline pump with mounting kit $90
felpro 2104 steel reinforced carb to carb hat gasket $10-$20
throw in an extra $100 for various fittings AN,oil feed, just all kinds of random stuff that is overlooked.
if you dont run an internal wastegate you will need an external $60-$300. spend some money on this its what is going to keep your turbo from over spooling and blowing your engine.
bov $20-$300. gonna wanna spend some money on this too. cheap will get you by but you get what you pay for. im currently running a $35 piece and it surges. got a nice synapse to put on when i get it running again.
mushroom air filter $15

if i can think of anything else i will add it to this post. this setup will produce 300+hp probably closer to 450 or whatever you can get before the head starts to lift. the weak link in this setup is the turbo in my case. change that out and everything else is good for 500hp aside from the motor internals.
Click to expand...

Thoughts on why you went with a 4 barrel intake/carb vs a 2?
 
RustyPlymouth said:
ok here is the majority of the parts from my build. it is capable of 300+hp and most of the parts are good for 500+. only things i have done to my motor are a comp cams 264s, 340 valve springs and fresh rings. i suspect i might have been better off with the stock cam but i would recommend the springs if your motor is high milage.

hp valve springs $40 ebay
used holley 600-650 double pumper $50-$150 new $450. setup for blowthrough $550-$750
rebuild kit for carb $35-$45
hangar 18 mods are easy. if you can rebuild a carb you can do these mods. seems like a lot when you first read through it but its really easy when you break it down and start doing it.
nitrophyl floats $12 on ebay
spectre 9849 carb hat $65-$100 for high and low profile 98499
aem uego wideband o2 sensor and gauge $170-$230 plug and play, works well
ebay/china t3/t4 turbo kit w/ oil line, bov, wastegate, heat shield and exhaust flange $189. this turbo actually recently took a crap on me. spend some more for your turbo lol. hx35's can be had for around $200 used and will push up to 27psi efficiently. they are hearty and hold up well. you pay for a quality turbo with them not just the name. cxracing has a line of gt35's that are sized right for a slant. they are american engineered and china built. they stand behind their turbos and have a good customer base. their turbos seem to hold up pretty well. you could find a grand national turbo but i think 300hp is just about the limit if not stretching the breath of that particular turbo.
turbo $100-$5k
ebay 31x11x3.5 bar & plate front mount intercooler $98 this actually turned out to be a quality piece. really happy with it.
ebay 3" intercooler piping $109-$150 depending on couplings, bends and diameter
2.25 j pipe $35 jeggs all day.
3/8" exhaust flange that bolts up to the stock manifold $5-$10
t3 flange $10-$20 including gasket
2.5"-3" exhaust adapter $7 not necissary, i just wanted 3" exhaust. lol.
4bbl intake $100-$175
stock exhaust manifold hogged out, free
oil return pipe, scavenged from a dsm turbo i had kits are $30-$60
brake line for oil feed, vacuum, boost referencing $25 for 25' you are not going to use it all but its always nice to have some brake line.
boost/vacuum gauge $15-$40
regulator and electric pump are a must. if you have done your reading you will have come across an article on allpar that states the mechanical pump referenced will work up to 16psi. i found it inadequate for 8psi. going lean with a turbo is bad. real bad.
mallory 4309 and aeromotive 13301 are pretty common and work well. both priced around $100
walbro 255 inline pump with mounting kit $90
felpro 2104 steel reinforced carb to carb hat gasket $10-$20
throw in an extra $100 for various fittings AN,oil feed, just all kinds of random stuff that is overlooked.
if you dont run an internal wastegate you will need an external $60-$300. spend some money on this its what is going to keep your turbo from over spooling and blowing your engine.
bov $20-$300. gonna wanna spend some money on this too. cheap will get you by but you get what you pay for. im currently running a $35 piece and it surges. got a nice synapse to put on when i get it running again.
mushroom air filter $15

if i can think of anything else i will add it to this post. this setup will produce 300+hp probably closer to 450 or whatever you can get before the head starts to lift. the weak link in this setup is the turbo in my case. change that out and everything else is good for 500hp aside from the motor internals.
Click to expand...

Junior,

Thank you so very much for this list; this is exactly the kind of post I envisioned happening when I started this thread; one that a newbie, building his first forced induction slant six could read and get a very good idea if what is involved, both financially, and in regard to the best parts involved on a first-time build. It's a complicated problem and not at all easy to know what to buy.... there are so many blind alleys to go down, and it's usually expen$ive....

You did extensive and exhaustive (no pun intended) research to come up with this "recipe."

You may have saved a lot of folks some meaningful money with this post.:cheers:
 
killnine said:
Thoughts on why you went with a 4 barrel intake/carb vs a 2?
Click to expand...

because i already had the manifold. i wanted to run the hyperpac with the turbo. for wow factor and because that intake designed to run in the rpm range my motor is set to run in. and it looks cool. there is no reason that i can think of as to why you wouldnt be able to get 400+hp with a 2bbl though. could probably get more but the openings in the stock 2bbl manifold will become a limiting factor eventually. not sure when that would be but they are pretty small.
 
CichliDart said:
Wow! Great information!
Thanks for sharing all of that. You now have me looking at inline fuel pumps and filters. I may start with the factory fuel pump and evolve up to the one you mentioned. I also would like to run 3" pipes and just got the Turbo outlet customized for that, and just got the v clamp to see if I can clamp the pipe on instead of welding on to it.

Just ordered more odds and ends to do the battery swap this weekend to make room for the turbo in the battery area on the fender. New u/j/Pish pipe on the way this weekend as well.

Learning a lot from everyone here about their builds, hopefully save myself from making a mess of things. :cheers:

Mike
Click to expand...

i slid the 2.5" v-band onto the adapter as far as it would go, welded it and cut off the extra pupe that what was sticking out. its a nice clean setup and it lets the turbo breath. sounds good too. just to get you started so you can cruise around a little bit on low boost, the stock pump will work. just keep an eye on your afr gauge when it spools. and keep at or below 8psi.

here is my build http://www.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=54407&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 its kinda step by step but not exactly. if you have any questions dont be afraid to ask.
 
Bill Dedman said:
Junior,

Thank you so very much for this list; this is exactly the kind of post I envisioned happening when I started this thread; one that a newbie, building his first forced induction slant six could read and get a very good idea if what is involved, both financially, and in regard to the best parts involved on a first-time build. It's a complicated problem and not at all easy to know what to buy.... there are so many blind alleys to go down, and it's usually expen$ive....

You did extensive and exhaustive (no pun intended) research to come up with this "recipe."

You may have saved a lot of folks some meaningful money with this post.:cheers:
Click to expand...

what ever i can do to turn people onto this setup. i laugh like a little kid every time i drive my car. the power is ridiculous. is still cant believe it is coming from a slant.
 
RustyPlymouth said:
because i already had the manifold. i wanted to run the hyperpac with the turbo. for wow factor and because that intake designed to run in the rpm range my motor is set to run in. and it looks cool. there is no reason that i can think of as to why you wouldnt be able to get 400+hp with a 2bbl though. could probably get more but the openings in the stock 2bbl manifold will become a limiting factor eventually. not sure when that would be but they are pretty small.
Click to expand...

The supersix manifolds are almost the same price as a used 4 bbl intake. If you don't have either to start with a 4 bbl may be the best investment as an adapter plate will allow the use of a two barrel. I am starting with a 2 bbl carb and if needed will step up to a four bbl carb.

An aluminum intake should also be easier to modify if you want to port match, add nitrous, or port injection. http://www.dutra.org/pictures/engine/dutra-cuda-engine/nos-test.htm http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x126/rmslant/P1010095.jpg

At least these were some of my thoughts on going with a 4 bbl intake.

Mike
 
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