Small Block Full Length Header Options - Ground Clearance

[autoxcuda]

Not to hi jack a thread but as one who doesnt like the design of the cheaper headers and didn't care for the $525 splitfire headers I had on my early A body barracuda I was looking at other header design and manufacturers. I was wonder if anyone has tried sanderson headers?

http://www.sandersonheaders.com/Sanderson-DD7-Small-Block-Chrysler-Blockhugger-Header-Set.html

Have you looked at the new TTI shorty headers?:

http://ttiexhaust.com/Category-ClassicHeaders/34025-Shorty/TTi34025.htm

 

[72bluNblu]

To humor you, if I have a minute tomorrow I'll grab a pic or two.

Awesome! Please include a frame measurement somewhere so there's a solid reference point since the headers aren't exactly a fixed point from car to car, even for the same brand and model of header.

I went out and measured my car, and documented with pictures. I have roughly

4-1/16" to the bottom of the passenger header flange
4-1/4" to the driver's header flange
6-1/8" to the frame at the torque box
5-7/8" to the rear of the K frame (not including the skid plate)
1-3/8" from the frame to the top of the LCA (not including the bump stop)

My only point was that either your car has 7" to the header flange, or it sits at about the same ride height as mine. But both of those statements can't be true, at least not if you still have torsion bars and your headers sit below the floorpan. You car could definitely be as low as mine or even lower, but not if the headers are 7" off the ground. That's all I was saying.

Have you looked at the new TTI shorty headers?:

Those look good, but if I remember right the bend on the down pipe isn't nearly that clean on an A-body. That would buy you another 1/2" or more of ground clearance though. Not sure it's really necessary though. I've yet to scrape the D453's, and I really don't have much suspension travel left to lower the ride height anymore.

 

[Saverio]

Not to hi jack a thread but as one who doesnt like the design of the cheaper headers and didn't care for the $525 splitfire headers I had on my early A body barracuda I was looking at other header design and manufacturers. I was wonder if anyone has tried sanderson headers?

http://www.sandersonheaders.com/Sanderson-DD7-Small-Block-Chrysler-Blockhugger-Header-Set.html

Never heard of them, so thanks!

 

[dennday67]

I like the fact you don't need a gasket but they say you might need to modify the steering.

 

[Bad Sport]

My only point was that either your car has 7" to the header flange, or it sits at about the same ride height as mine. But both of those statements can't be true, at least not if you still have torsion bars and your headers sit below the floorpan. You car could definitely be as low as mine or even lower, but not if the headers are 7" off the ground. That's all I was saying.

Oh, I'm not taking offense, don't get me wrong. But every time this discussion comes up most say they hit. I haven't even come close that I know of.

In fact I purposely drove over some healthy speed bumps in a local shopping center trying to get them to scrape. I just don't Bo Duke it, lol.

 

[Lelo Dart]

Not to hi jack a thread but as one who doesnt like the design of the cheaper headers and didn't care for the $525 splitfire headers I had on my early A body barracuda I was looking at other header design and manufacturers. I was wonder if anyone has tried sanderson headers?

http://www.sandersonheaders.com/Sanderson-DD7-Small-Block-Chrysler-Blockhugger-Header-Set.html

I have the DD7s on my 72 Dart. I had to shim the motor mounts and put in a new steering coupler to get them to clear because they where hitting the rag joint. But other than that I am real happy with them. I hear they won't fit a early A though. I want to hear from someone who has the DD8s. They look like a improved version of the other.

 

[Bad Sport]

Awesome! still have torsion bars and your headers sit below the floorpan. You car could definitely be as low as mine or even lower, but not if the headers are 7" off the ground. That's all I was saying.

Can you get 2 more pics. I took one of front tire height and to the bottom edge of front wheel opening, right in the center.

This is all good info, as many times as we have had this discussion on the forum, I don't believe anyone has actually done comparisons like this.

I'll get mine posted as soon as I re-size them.

 

[Bad Sport]

Fender Lip
View attachment fender lip.jpg

Tire Height
View attachment tire height.jpg

Flange
View attachment header flange.jpg

Frame
View attachment Frame.jpg

LCA
View attachment LCA.jpg


Now, it appears I lost 1 inch of header flange clearance, reason being I now have a 25" tall tire or a tad less, I put some short skinnies on it, instead of a 26" tall tire. But I have good ground clearance with the Summit headers.

My LCA measurement is more than your, to my knowledge this car hasn't been messed with, but it may have I dunno.

I would like to compare your tire height and the fender lip measurement to see how close these two compare.


Have you lowered yours?

 

[72bluNblu]

Now, it appears I lost 1 inch of header flange clearance, reason being I now have a 25" tall tire or a tad less, I put some short skinnies on it, instead of a 26" tall tire. But I have good ground clearance with the Summit headers.

My LCA measurement is more than your, to my knowledge this car hasn't been messed with, but it may have I dunno.

I would like to compare your tire height and the fender lip measurement to see how close these two compare.


Have you lowered yours?

Looking at the pictures, I'd say you've got

6" to the header flange
8-1/2" to the frame
2-3/4" from the frame to the LCA
26 5/8" to the fender lip

Sound about right? It can be hard to tell just from the pictures because the view angle changes things a bit. Now, the next question I have for you is, are the header flanges the lowest part of the header? If there's a tube that runs below the steering link, it's probably lower than the flange right?

Anyway, if my estimates from your pictures are right, it means that your headers flanges hang down 2-1/2" below your frame. The Doug's are at 2-1/16".

And to answer your question, yes, my car has been lowered. I run 1.12" torsion bars with a poly bumpstop on the LCA for additional clearance. Looking at your LCA measurement, my car is lowered about 1-3/8" from yours at the suspension. Obviously there are still ground clearance differences because it looks like my tires are a bit taller.

Ground to fender lip measurement on my car is 25 1/8". My 275/35/18's spec at 25.7" tall, but measured from the ground to the top edge they're just under 25" with the weight of the car on them. The angle of the picture is a little funky, the camera was lower than the fender lip there.

 

[Bad Sport]

Looking at the pictures, I'd say you've got

6" to the header flange Yes
8-1/2" to the frame Between 8.5 and 9
2-3/4" from the frame to the LCA Roughly
26 5/8" to the fender lip Yes it was slightly less than 27

Sound about right? It can be hard to tell just from the pictures because the view angle changes things a bit. Now, the next question I have for you is, are the header flanges the lowest part of the header?

Yes.

If there's a tube that runs below the steering link, it's probably lower than the flange right?

No, well maybe, lol. I'd have to double check. I think it's pretty close to even.

Anyway, if my estimates from your pictures are right, it means that your headers flanges hang down 2-1/2" below your frame. The Doug's are at 2-1/16".

And to answer your question, yes, my car has been lowered. I run 1.12" torsion bars with a poly bumpstop on the LCA for additional clearance. Looking at your LCA measurement, my car is lowered about 1-3/8" from yours at the suspension. Obviously there are still ground clearance differences because it looks like my tires are a bit taller.

Interesting. I'd say that's where you lost your clearance, because it's lowered.

As far as I know mine hasn't been messed with. It was difficult to get to, because it's nosed up tight to the wall and surrounded by parts. I'll try and gander at the tube tomorrow.

I know I have not had any issues with scraping, yet.. Not to say I won't, but so far so good.

 

[72bluNblu]

Interesting. I'd say that's where you lost your clearance, because it's lowered.

As far as I know mine hasn't been messed with. It was difficult to get to, because it's nosed up tight to the wall and surrounded by parts. I'll try and gander at the tube tomorrow.

I know I have not had any issues with scraping, yet.. Not to say I won't, but so far so good.

Oh I know exactly where I lost clearance, that was never in question. My point all along has been that the Doug's headers give you as much ground clearance as is possible with long tube headers, better than even the TTI's and obviously better than anything that goes below the steering link. Ignoring ground clearance, you can see from our measurements that the Doug's headers are almost a 1/2" closer to the bottom of the frame than the ones you run. That's an extra 1/2" of ground clearance relative to the frame. Now, my car is significantly lower than yours, so overall I have less clearance. But if I was running your headers, my ground clearance would be closer to 3.5" instead of 4".

That's why I mentioned them. You can use cheap headers on cars that are at the stock ride height and not really worry about anything dragging, the car sits high enough that it doesn't matter. But if you lower the car, and you want to keep your header tubes round, the cheaper, below the steering headers aren't the best choice. And since the original poster wants to lower and autocross his car, that's an important fact.

As far as your car scraping, I wouldn't worry about it. Mine hasn't scraped on anything yet, and I have 2" less ground clearance to the header flanges. Although that is by far the lowest part of my car, it's the lowest part of the headers, lower than the oil pan, etc. From experience with my Challenger, which once sat with the header flanges 3.5" off the ground, I can say that at 3.5" of clearance my header flanges would scrape on taller speedbumps, even if I crawled over them slowly and at an angle. I raised the Challenger up so the header flanges are about 3.75" off the deck, and rarely scape on anything at that height.

 

[autoxcuda]

Looking at the pictures, I'd say you've got

6" to the header flange
8-1/2" to the frame
2-3/4" from the frame to the LCA
26 5/8" to the fender lip
...

I have:

2 3/8" TTI headpipe flange edge to ground.

Yes, they scrape. I have to be careful.

 

[72bluNblu]

I have:

2 3/8" TTI headpipe flange edge to ground.

Yes, they scrape. I have to be careful.

That is seriously low! I was starting to drag my headers with the flanges 3.5" off the ground. Too many speedbumps around here. #-o

You're running pretty short tires though right? I seem to remember you had similar clearance from the frame to LCA as I've got, little less than 1.5"?

 

[autoxcuda]

That is seriously low! I was starting to drag my headers with the flanges 3.5" off the ground. Too many speedbumps around here. #-o

You're running pretty short tires though right? I seem to remember you had similar clearance from the frame to LCA as I've got, little less than 1.5"?

Yes, I have 245/50/15 tires. Those are 24.7" diameter.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Yes, I have 245/50/15 tires. Those are 24.7" diameter.

Your stuff is just a purpose built bowl fulla badassary. It don't even count where clearance is concerned. lol

 

[autoxcuda]

Your stuff is just a purpose built bowl fulla badassary. It don't even count where clearance is concerned. lol

Thanks.

But it is a PITA too low. My 24.7" diameter tires bring it down some. I lowered the front to match where the Hotchkis leaf spring put the rear height ( I didn't/couldn't run the lowered hangers)

The Hotchkis springs run low and makes you bring down the front to match.

My measurement to top front fender lip is 24 1/16" on driver side and 24" on passenger side. That's a 67-69 Barracuda fender of course.

Every so often I bump the top of my head on the top window sill getting in or out of the car.

 

[solid340]

Hi Everyone,has anyone used the Mopar Chrysler SB 318 340 360 Block Hugger Stainless Steel Exhaust Header, I found them on Ebay from speedmaster. I need to replace my headers on my 72 Duster 340(second time). included are some pictures.According to Esso's adjuster...my car sits to low..REALLY!!!

 

[Dartfan71]

I just hit the bottom of my hooker headers with a hammer before I install them to get the ground clearance that I want.

 

[dvav]

I have hookers and it didn't take long before they got dented on the bottom so when I finally pulled the dents out I welded an extra piece of sheet metal over the dented area to act as a skid plate

 

[solid340]

that's an excellent idea dvav. I am going to price some TTi s or go with the Shumacher headers. I know they are pricey but I don't want to do it again