Has someone checked out the Trick Flow heads for this? They seem better in every other aspect, you'd think they would have improved the rocker shaft location, too.And every aftermarket head as well, but we know this.
Has someone checked out the Trick Flow heads for this? They seem better in every other aspect, you'd think they would have improved the rocker shaft location, too.And every aftermarket head as well, but we know this.
I will try to be more clear or complete.
The Speedmaster heads are basically copies of Edelbrock LA heads. The rocker shaft stands are in the same location as the Edelbrock heads.
The Speedmaster stainless rocker arms are basicaly copies of the Comp Cams stainless rocker arms. I have both sets, measured them for comparison, and they are dimensionally the same.
The retainer contacting the rocker arm happens on Edelbrock heads with Comp rocker arms too. So this is NOT specific to Speedmaster parts.
The reason previous posts said to correct the geometry first using a kit from B3 racing is because the rocker shaft stand positions the rocker shaft too close to the valves and too low FOR A ROLLER ROCKER ARM. That is usually the only cause of the interference. So if you get the measurements from B3 Racing website and call Mike with that info he can make the kit properly. It is not just shims. It is usually an offset shim to move the rocker shaft up and away from the valves a specific amount based on your measurements. Some are considerable. Once kit is installed you can double check for the interference. Usually there will be plenty of clearance there with the kit installed, no rocker arm grinding, no beehive springs and no small retainers.
The Trick Flow heads moved the rocker shaft position. That is why guys with Trick Flow heads are not reporting all the clearance issues. They require much less correction.
Lastly, once you install the correction kit you will likely have to add clearance for the pushrods in the cylinder head.
Sorry for the long post. Just trying to be clear and cover it all in one spot.
Has someone checked out the Trick Flow heads for this? They seem better in every other aspect, you'd think they would have improved the rocker shaft location, too.
According to Mike- B3 - IIRC - for the TT heads the Harlandsharps need no correction and the PRW could use a minor one just to dead nuts on.Please don't apologize for the long post, this ends the thread and actually answers the question I was asking instead of talking in circles about how rocker geometry is affected by multiple things lol. This is exactly the information I was looking for, all in one post. I was under the impression that the Speedmaster stuff was a copy of the Edelbrock stuff, but was not aware of the rockers.
Since I don't have access to the website, I will have to find Mike's email, since I don't usually find time to call. I will go from there. Thank you!
B3 Racing Engines LLCPlease don't apologize for the long post, this ends the thread and actually answers the question I was asking instead of talking in circles about how rocker geometry is affected by multiple things lol. This is exactly the information I was looking for, all in one post. I was under the impression that the Speedmaster stuff was a copy of the Edelbrock stuff, but was not aware of the rockers.
Since I don't have access to the website, I will have to find Mike's email, since I don't usually find time to call. I will go from there. Thank you!
Great photos. Did you have to open up the holes in the rocker shaft for that amount of rocker shaft relocation?Those rockers look to be identical to my PRW', except for the holdowns are different. I have mine on Trick Flow heads. Got all of it and the correction kit from Mike at B3.
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I didn't think it was talking in circles at all. In fact, there's some great information being shared from members who seem to care about a job being done correctly. I know I for one can easily stop doing any of that on your threads in the future, if that's what you'd rather.Please don't apologize for the long post, this ends the thread and actually answers the question I was asking instead of talking in circles about how rocker geometry is affected by multiple things lol. This is exactly the information I was looking for, all in one post. I was under the impression that the Speedmaster stuff was a copy of the Edelbrock stuff, but was not aware of the rockers.
Since I don't have access to the website, I will have to find Mike's email, since I don't usually find time to call. I will go from there. Thank you!
I thought I had read elsewhere the Trick Flows were better about geometry.No, I did not have to do anything to B3's partial correction kit. The trick flow heads have some corrections engineered in. Valve stem wear or contact marks are spot on with the partial correction kit.
I mentioned that and got dissed. It's a fix.Haven't read all the posts.
Comment:
- the rocker geometry can be correct...& still have rocker to retainer contact. More likely with the SBM because the rocker is so short.
- use beehive or conical springs! Problem solved.
That is incorrect, Rob. The Harland Sharp rockers need more correction than most, even on the TF heads. Throw a set of T&D 8130 rockers on a TF head, and run .700" net lift, and you won't need any correction. Outside of that scenario, it will need adjustment, just not as extreme as other "factory copy" type heads.According to Mike- B3 - IIRC - for the TT heads the Harlandsharps need no correction and the PRW could use a minor one just to dead nuts on.
Oh crud! Thanks for popping in for the correction.That is incorrect, Rob.
Excellent update. So if I can remember that down the road….The Harland Sharp rockers need more correction than most, even on the TF heads. Throw a set of T&D 8130 rockers on a TF head, and run .700" net lift, and you won't need any correction. Outside of that scenario, it will need adjustment, just not as extreme as other "factory copy" type heads.
You didn't get dissed, Mike. You don't know if clearance will be an issue until you know the shaft is at the right place. Then you can rightfully determine whether the beehive springs need to be used. I call that being informed. There was no disrespect given, at least not from me.I mentioned that and got dissed. It's a fix.
Yes it can. But again, if you don't know whether the shaft is at the right place, you don't know for certain why there isn't enough clearance. If the geometry is truly correct, not just centered on the valve tip, and you still have clearance issues, by all means, use a different spring if that fixes the issue. FWIW, I haven't had to grind on a rocker for over 15 years, and I rarely run a beehive spring.Haven't read all the posts.
Comment:
- the rocker geometry can be correct...& still have rocker to retainer contact. More likely with the SBM because the rocker is so short.
- use beehive or conical springs! Problem solved.
What am I doing wrong??? Got new H&S full roller arms. I have already reduced the thickness of the shims from the ones supplied by H&S to about half the size. I had a solid .015-.020 clearance. But when I tighten the rocker shaft down with the push rods installed every thing tightens up and I lose the clearance. I tried positioning the hold down blocks. It worked great. It has the proper clearance but tighten it down with the push rods installed it all goes tight. These are on Eddy RPM heads.
The springs are 1.55 od
So you’re saying it took approximately a $3000.00 set of Trick Flows to fix approximately a $500.00valve spring and retainer fix? Or a let’s say a $1000.00 rocker arm change. Or am I not understanding something? Or missing something? KimMike is in the process of finalizing my 340/416 Stroker build- can’t wait, should have it back this week fingers crossed!
Regarding heads- I had originally gone with SM using the 1.6 Hughes rockers before I contact Mike to do the build. I had him do a correction kit, still had to grind the inside of the Hughes rockers to clear SM valve springs that came with them.
Since Mike had had the motor and soing
The build, had nothing but issues with the SM heads and luckily he had a set of Trickflow 190’s. It only needed a very rocker shaft small correction for the 1.6 Hughes rockers- running hyd roller cam custom ground based on his specs, can’t recall but def not more .530 I think.
I rambled here but my point is- I wish listened to all the guys on here that said “GO TRICKFLOW” with the money I thought I’d saved going SM I ended paying more for port work and rework and ended up still not using them. Seems like some guys get lucky with SM but that wasn’t me.