SS/B Barracuda project

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ssba said:
These are the 1 7/8" primary headers that are original equipment on the
Hurst built cars.
They are a race header without collector flanges to bolt a exhaust system.
Some tubes are slip fit removable and have long collectors. The collectors
aim straight back rather than point towards the driveshaft like the TTI's
They also hang lower below frame rails rather than tucked up close to the floor
as the TTI's. The SS cars set high in the front which gave them the room for these
pipes and a deep sump racer added pan.
Click to expand...

Yes thank you for the pics ssba.
Obviously Hooker made the 5481 with motor plates and Pro Stock in mined. And now here we are trying too make them fit in projects like mine. No easy...
No as you say TTI`s is no an option if you like me want a as correct look as possibly...
 
Old Man Mopar said:
If you have not seen this I know that you will enjoy it.

Started by my good friend Daryl Klassen it is the encyclopedia of factory SS Hemi Dart history.

http://classracer.com/classforum/showthread.php?t=13002
Click to expand...

Yes I check the tread most every day, and know many of my fellow swedes who do the same. Priceless info there. Even saw my old Dart in one post, witch was a kind of recognition... and I hope the cuda-thread would lift some more as well.
Thank you for the tip anyway.
 
You guys have convinced me to level the inner fender center section in line or almost inline with the inner fender. I will show later how I am gonna do this. You have referred to photos that I in some cases have seen, but miss judged I must admit. Thank you all for your input on this issue. Of cause any further info on the inner fender hammering is interesting, also source or and background of the info of cause is interesting.

Next and the hardest issue in this project is front suspension, or rater the effects on the front suspension, from using the k-member spacers. I have an idea as to obtain the effect of using the spacers, witch is as far I understand , to lower the carburetors to under the hood line, with out having to modify the front suspension. But It would also surprise me if the only reason for using the spacers was to lower the carbs. sense it had such a bad effect on the front suspension. Could it bee a trans/bell housing to tunnel lip clearance issue????
But first a "yes or no" question. Can the ½" spacers be used, without doing any changes to a stock ´68 a-body front suspension????
 
SSing said:
You guys have convinced me to level the inner fender center section in line or almost inline with the inner fender. I will show later how I am gonna do this. You have referred to photos that I in some cases have seen, but miss judged I must admit. Thank you all for your input on this issue. Of cause any further info on the inner fender hammering is interesting, also source or and background of the info of cause is interesting.

Next and the hardest issue in this project is front suspension, or rater the effects on the front suspension, from using the k-member spacers. I have an idea as to obtain the effect of using the spacers, witch is as far I understand , to lower the carburetors to under the hood line, with out having to modify the front suspension. But It would also surprise me if the only reason for using the spacers was to lower the carbs. sense it had such a bad effect on the front suspension. Could it bee a trans/bell housing to tunnel lip clearance issue????
But first a "yes or no" question. Can the ½" spacers be used, without doing any changes to a stock ´68 a-body front suspension????
Click to expand...
:banghead:
surely it will cause a steering shaft length problem!
 
I put 1/2" spacers in between k-member & frame on mine just because that was
how I believe they were built by hurst. As far as I know it was only done to keep
the carbs under the hood. This was a ssb class rule from the way I understood it.
My car will not be using the factory cross ram manifold but I believe they may also help
with header or valve cover room? Not for sure on this from experience yet but I think I have
read or been told this.
My steering column went in with a very slight bind. Nothing bad but It was there.
Nothing you could feel when turning the wheel.
I shortened the outer column jacket 4 1/4" and like it there. The 2" suggested in
the authenticity guide didn't seem enough to me once installed so I cut it to where
it looked like some of the original cars I have seen in person. It may be as the tubes
of the headers got larger the columns got cut back further.
I bought the guide when it came out and still use it as a resource but have found
items that didn't mesh when studying the cars in person.
A lot of items mentioned are easy to obtain modern substitutes rather than what
came on the cars.
These cars also got modified by the racers as they evolved and their is not many
cars available to use as a reliable reference.
I went to the Hemi reunion in 08 to see with my own eyes how these cars were built
and a lot of my opinions on how the cars came are from looking at the cars and
talking to the owners and others who had done more research than I was able to do without
access to a original car. I took many pictures of the cars and am still learning as I
progress with my project.
Anyway here's what I came up with on the steering column.
 

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This is a picture I took of Al's Toy. Sorry it is upside down. It doesn't appear to have
the column shortened at all. Most pictures I took columns were shorter but could have been
been done by the racer?
It is not a great picture but you can also see the Hurst line lock, master cylinder block ,
Small tube headers and the flexible brake lines.
He had 65 aluminum heads on it at this time.
 

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ssba said:
I put 1/2" spacers in between k-member & frame on mine just because that was
how I believe they were built by hurst. As far as I know it was only done to keep
the carbs under the hood. This was a ssb class rule from the way I understood it.
My car will not be using the factory cross ram manifold but I believe they may also help
with header or valve cover room? Not for sure on this from experience yet but I think I have
read or been told this.
My steering column went in with a very slight bind. Nothing bad but It was there.
Nothing you could feel when turning the wheel.
I shortened the outer column jacket 4 1/4" and like it there. The 2" suggested in
the authenticity guide didn't seem enough to me once installed so I cut it to where
it looked like some of the original cars I have seen in person. It may be as the tubes
of the headers got larger the columns got cut back further.
I bought the guide when it came out and still use it as a resource but have found
items that didn't mesh when studying the cars in person.
A lot of items mentioned are easy to obtain modern substitutes rather than what
came on the cars.
These cars also got modified by the racers as they evolved and their is not many
cars available to use as a reliable reference.
I went to the Hemi reunion in 08 to see with my own eyes how these cars were built
and a lot of my opinions on how the cars came are from looking at the cars and
talking to the owners and others who had done more research than I was able to do without
access to a original car. I took many pictures of the cars and am still learning as I
progress with my project.
Anyway here's what I came up with on the steering column.
Click to expand...

Yes this info will be useful to me later... thank you ssba.
 
I shall express myself more clearly, and want to start with what effect the spacers have on the front suspension, e.i. stability and handling of the car. If the spacers means I have to tamper with the upper and lower control arm as well as the lower steering arm, I have to pass on the use of the spacers, as I have plans to get the traffic techs approvals, and use the car on the street, at least occasionally, witch in reality probably will mean a number of hours ;)

????Question: Do I have to adjust/bend upper and lower control arm, as well as lower steering arm, or any of them, if I use ½" spacers????

This question is crucial as to how I move on. No room for assumptions here. Sense it also is a question of safety.
 
SSing said:
You guys have convinced me to level the inner fender center section in line or almost inline with the inner fender. I will show later how I am gonna do this. You have referred to photos that I in some cases have seen, but miss judged I must admit. Thank you all for your input on this issue. Of cause any further info on the inner fender hammering is interesting, also source or and background of the info of cause is interesting.

Next and the hardest issue in this project is front suspension, or rater the effects on the front suspension, from using the k-member spacers. I have an idea as to obtain the effect of using the spacers, witch is as far I understand , to lower the carburetors to under the hood line, with out having to modify the front suspension. But It would also surprise me if the only reason for using the spacers was to lower the carbs. sense it had such a bad effect on the front suspension. Could it bee a trans/bell housing to tunnel lip clearance issue????
But first a "yes or no" question. Can the ½" spacers be used, without doing any changes to a stock ´68 a-body front suspension????
Click to expand...

Yes. Troy uses the 1/2" spacers. Not modified suspension pieces. He useds stock 68 idler, pitman, etc suspension pieces with his TTI headers. He drives the car everywhere and it drives on the highway fine. Drives straight and handles just like an A-body with no front sway bar. Do not bent the suspension pieces.

The steering column is not a big deal. Cut the tube and move the bearing back.

BTW, you can get the TTI headers coated in white or black. IMHO, if you are worrying about the angle of the collectors, you better have already some perfect 100% detailing done. Like, have you found a source for the 100% correct brand, model, size of tires delivered? You running a transistorized ignition?
 
SSing said:
Interesting, thank you. I thing I know how to force the upper part of the center section out wards, without alter the location of the shock mounting hole. Although it would be interesting to know how Hurst did this. Does your friend know?
And yes I had the SS-guide from day one...
Click to expand...

I had asked him this once. IIRC, his response was they simply didn't worry about it as back then the order was to get them out ASAP and it was during a time rollcages & snout-bars weren't required so they didn't worry about precision to connect the snout bars to the front suspension. If it's that major a concern, I'd ask Greg as I'm sure he has some modern-day solution. If you get a chance to look at a few real S/S cars there's no consistency in the builds. SOme are clearenced real well, others look like a drunk went after the fender. I've also noticed brake distribution blocks & brake line routing is inconsistent and cars even got shipped lacking fibregalss or had broken windows with their replacement just sitting in the car.
If it were me, doing a clone, & I wanted the most accurate as possible, I'd use a basic 'cuda as a guide, since that was the statring point, but add frame connectors & use a brace from a Dart/Duster front fender 'glassed onto the 'glass fenders at the rear for adjustment & build the car per whatever model you're using. These two additions will go a long way in increasing your car's durability, appearence & simplicity in completing the build. As an aside to the clone "thing", having built a tubbed car & 2 mini-tubbed ones, I'd stick with the mini-tubs. People seem to dig 'em more & if you ever take it to the track, unless you're in the 800hp range (and some would say even then) you won't need that much tire to get it to hook....
 
autoxcuda said:
Yes. Troy uses the 1/2" spacers. Not modified suspension pieces. He useds stock 68 idler, pitman, etc suspension pieces with his TTI headers. He drives the car everywhere and it drives on the highway fine. Drives straight and handles just like an A-body with no front sway bar. Do not bent the suspension pieces.

The steering column is not a big deal. Cut the tube and move the bearing back.

BTW, you can get the TTI headers coated in white or black. IMHO, if you are worrying about the angle of the collectors, you better have already some perfect 100% detailing done. Like, have you found a source for the 100% correct brand, model, size of tires delivered? You running a transistorized ignition?
Click to expand...

Thank you autoxcuda.
This is just what I was hoping for. Now this build will be a peace of pork.:happy7:

When it comes to 100% detailing, I am not a fanatic, as exemplified above with the spacers, but the overall appearance is important. For example, an 8 qt oil pan, and tucked up collectors is not harmonizing.

I will soon make a list of pars I have collected so fare. and of cause want you opinion on them.
 
SSing said:
I shall express myself more clearly, and want to start with what effect the spacers have on the front suspension, e.i. stability and handling of the car. If the spacers means I have to tamper with the upper and lower control arm as well as the lower steering arm, I have to pass on the use of the spacers, as I have plans to get the traffic techs approvals, and use the car on the street, at least occasionally, witch in reality probably will mean a number of hours ;)

????Question: Do I have to adjust/bend upper and lower control arm, as well as lower steering arm, or any of them, if I use ½" spacers????

This question is crucial as to how I move on. No room for assumptions here. Sense it also is a question of safety.
Click to expand...

Regarding your front-end
If you're going to use the new Mopar X-ram & want it to stay under the hood, you'll need to use a 1" to 1 1/4" spacer as that manifold is larger than the originals. Your A-arms won't be much of an issue until you start using the car at racing speeds, then you'll probably need to follow the guidelines in the Guide. While bending/modifying them may be an issue where you are, another possibility is to contact "Old Car Parts" here in the States & see if you sent them a copy of what's in the Guide they could make them for you. They deal with rare/one-off pieces for collectors. Of course you could always use modern, adjustable A-arms, as I did, as no one is really going to see them anyway & most won't even know if they ARE origianl or not. As to your steering column: you should have enough room to move it forward the extra inch or so you'll need to compensate for the lowered K-member. Sometimes they do have have to be shortened & that entails disassembling it & making the appropriate modifications.
 
hemicop said:
I had asked him this once. IIRC, his response was they simply didn't worry about it as back then the order was to get them out ASAP and it was during a time rollcages & snout-bars weren't required so they didn't worry about precision to connect the snout bars to the front suspension. If it's that major a concern, I'd ask Greg as I'm sure he has some modern-day solution. If you get a chance to look at a few real S/S cars there's no consistency in the builds. SOme are clearenced real well, others look like a drunk went after the fender. I've also noticed brake distribution blocks & brake line routing is inconsistent and cars even got shipped lacking fibregalss or had broken windows with their replacement just sitting in the car.
If it were me, doing a clone, & I wanted the most accurate as possible, I'd use a basic 'cuda as a guide, since that was the statring point, but add frame connectors & use a brace from a Dart/Duster front fender 'glassed onto the 'glass fenders at the rear for adjustment & build the car per whatever model you're using. These two additions will go a long way in increasing your car's durability, appearence & simplicity in completing the build. As an aside to the clone "thing", having built a tubbed car & 2 mini-tubbed ones, I'd stick with the mini-tubs. People seem to dig 'em more & if you ever take it to the track, unless you're in the 800hp range (and some would say even then) you won't need that much tire to get it to hook....
Click to expand...

A lot of good information here. Thank you hemicop
I will kind of neutralize the upper center hole possession, with a as thick bar as possible, heat carefully from the outside, and massage center section some sense it is truly to smooth as it is now. If it is a tight fit no problem, sense there will no between round jobs here.

As for you advise on the build, it sure would bee a "better" car, but I would not bee pleased with it. I have said it before. It is a lot about the feeling...
 
hemicop said:
Regarding your front-end
If you're going to use the new Mopar X-ram & want it to stay under the hood, you'll need to use a 1" to 1 1/4" spacer as that manifold is larger than the originals. Your A-arms won't be much of an issue until you start using the car at racing speeds, then you'll probably need to follow the guidelines in the Guide. While bending/modifying them may be an issue where you are, another possibility is to contact "Old Car Parts" here in the States & see if you sent them a copy of what's in the Guide they could make them for you. They deal with rare/one-off pieces for collectors. Of course you could always use modern, adjustable A-arms, as I did, as no one is really going to see them anyway & most won't even know if they ARE origianl or not. As to your steering column: you should have enough room to move it forward the extra inch or so you'll need to compensate for the lowered K-member. Sometimes they do have have to be shortened & that entails disassembling it & making the appropriate modifications.
Click to expand...

I have a old DC cross ram.
Oh well so I am back to square one again regarding the front suspension. I mean it is not that I have a Race Hemi and never gonna test it. Like I pull her to 90 mph but not to 110 mph. But thank you for your info. What you say makes sense, and I totally agree.

I guess I have too deal with it when the problem occurs. Sense I guess I cant expect a newsletter from Dick Maxwell or who ever was in charge...
 
Here is a pic I found of the high tech fender mod:

rotisserie05.jpg
 
SSing said:
I have a old DC cross ram.
Oh well so I am back to square one again regarding the front suspension. I mean it is not that I have a Race Hemi and never gonna test it. Like I pull her to 90 mph but not to 110 mph. But thank you for your info. What you say makes sense, and I totally agree.

I guess I have too deal with it when the problem occurs. Sense I guess I cant expect a newsletter from Dick Maxwell or who ever was in charge...
Click to expand...

Run moog offset UCA 7103. Should have said before but that is what the car in the video I posted that drive great runs. Able to get 3 degrees positive caster.
 
Tach Drive Cable, Rev Limiter, the Blue Coil, a Cool Can, a Torque Strap of some kind are features I like to see on my early SS-car...

There were no decals in the engine compartment, as fare as I know? Right?

Was there some sort of strap to the gearbox/bell housing, to keep the clutch linkage in place?

Did the transmission cross member rubber get any help to keep the trans in correct location?

Old photos off early Super Stock Dart and Barracuda engine compartments would be great to see. Thanks...
 
So you are going for a "day two" as raced look?

68 Season, 69...? IIRC, in 69 they allowed bigger tires. That's when everyone cut the front bottom of the rear fenderlip on the Darts.

Cool can, rev limiter, torque strap were not as delivered by Hurst.
 
autoxcuda said:
So you are going for a "day two" as raced look?

68 Season, 69...? IIRC, in 69 they allowed bigger tires. That's when everyone cut the front bottom of the rear fenderlip on the Darts.

Cool can, rev limiter, torque strap were not as delivered by Hurst.
Click to expand...

Bellow are the first couple of lines in my thread... It is about building a SS/B in ´68-69 configuration...

Well some of you will instantly understand what this thread will be all about. But it is not just about putting a Hemi in my ´68 Barracuda, its about building the car the way they where campaigned in the first couple of years, before major changes where done to suspension, body and so forth, and to day of cause it is a totally new car. So mainly the car will be build as delivered from Hurst, with the additional reinforcement wheres that where done, a period correct roll bar, and of cause engine compartment will be fun to deal with. I see a cool can, rev. limiter and so on...
 
SSing said:
well HemiDenny, in my case it can´t be explained other than "it is all about the feeling" ;)
Click to expand...

I think I kinda know what you mean.

I'm not much of a purist..... but I like Hemi's in A bodies too....but more of the flat hold look....like a stocker.

Mopar to ya'
Denny
 
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