Steering column

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Sparky

Sparky

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Hey guys, does anyone have a photo of their lower steering column cover?, I need to see how close it is to the dash. Even a measurement will do. I can't get the steering wheel back on because there is not enough shaft to get the nut on. Can't seem to get the lower cover down the column enough. Getting frustrated, I have done this before but I am not seeing why this won' t work. I am getting mad in the face.
Thanks
 
Your question kind of makes no sense.

What part exactly are you referring to, the column collars? The lower column cover is usually just a trim piece that fastens to the underside of the dash with four screws to cover up the hole.

Regardless, if the shaft is too short, something is not seated all the way. The shaft should be held in place by a snap ring in a groove that keeps the upper bearing in place. A fixed length of the shaft will protrude beyond the snap ring groove.

You also could have collapsed the shaft but still, it should only go in one way at the top. If it was collapsed then you would be able to pull it out from the bottom.
 
rmchrgr said:
Your question kind of makes no sense.

What part exactly are you referring to, the column collars? The lower column cover is usually just a trim piece that fastens to the underside of the dash with four screws to cover up the hole.

Regardless, if the shaft is too short, something is not seated all the way. The shaft should be held in place by a snap ring in a groove that keeps the upper bearing in place. A fixed length of the shaft will protrude beyond the snap ring groove.

You also could have collapsed the shaft but still, it should only go in one way at the top. If it was collapsed then you would be able to pull it out from the bottom.
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Sorry guess I did not explain, just after the steering wheel there are two covers, one would be the pernundle, with the park, reverse etc letters and the other one behind it, not sure what the correct name for these two parts. It seems mine does not fit close enough to the dash according to the pics I have found on the interweb. I took it apart because this part was loose, I have referred to my shop manual but it is as vague as my explanation.
Thanks
 
Sparky said:
Sorry guess I did not explain, just after the steering wheel there are two covers, one would be the pernundle, with the park, reverse etc letters and the other one behind it, not sure what the correct name for these two parts. It seems mine does not fit close enough to the dash according to the pics I have found on the interweb. I took it apart because this part was loose, I have referred to my shop manual but it is as vague as my explanation.
Thanks
Click to expand...

PRNDL or prindle. But yes, these are the column collars. Still unclear as to why can't you get the steering wheel on though. Are you referring to the 'steering wheel' as the whole column?

Regardless, I've had a similar issue, it can somewhat depend on the sequence you use to tighten the nuts that hold the column bracket to the dash frame. IIRC, you might have to push up on the entire column and tighten the rearmost bolt (closest to firewall) down first, then tighten the nuts in the front but don't quote me on that. May have to try a few different ways. Don't crank them all the way down until you get it where you want it.

There is also some fore and aft movement where the breakaway biscuit things are. Tighten down the nuts and bolts that hold the bracket to the dash enough to hold it up but still allow to be moved with a little force. You can put the tip of a larger screwdriver between the column bracket and dash frame and pry the the assembly towards the back of the car. You will probably have to loosen the 3 bolts that hold the plate to the firewall in the footwell to be able to move the column around.

Also, make sure the steering coupler at the bottom of the shaft is seated correctly all the way down on the steering box output shaft.
 
rmchrgr said:
PRNDL or prindle. But yes, these are the column collars. Still unclear as to why can't you get the steering wheel on though. Are you referring to the 'steering wheel' as the whole column?

Regardless, I've had a similar issue, it can somewhat depend on the sequence you use to tighten the nuts that hold the column bracket to the dash frame. IIRC, you might have to push up on the entire column and tighten the rearmost bolt (closest to firewall) down first, then tighten the nuts in the front but don't quote me on that. May have to try a few different ways. Don't crank them all the way down until you get it where you want it.

There is also some fore and aft movement where the breakaway biscuit things are. Tighten down the nuts and bolts that hold the bracket to the dash enough to hold it up but still allow to be moved with a little force. You can put the tip of a larger screwdriver between the column bracket and dash frame and pry the the assembly towards the back of the car. You will probably have to loosen the 3 bolts that hold the plate to the firewall in the footwell to be able to move the column around.

Also, make sure the steering coupler at the bottom of the shaft is seated correctly all the way down on the steering box output shaft.
Click to expand...


After looking at several pics of a body steering column collars, it appears that mine are at least a couple of inches too far from the lower dash. So I presume the column is out of wack as the photos indicate the collars and therefore the column are much closer to the lower dash than mine. Not sure how this came about, I drove the car and notice the collars were loose and could be moved on the column. I removed the steering wheel and that is when I heard the shoes from the steering shaft coupler fall on the floor. Got those back in and the tried to re install the steering wheel and now there is not enough shaft to get the wheel situated on the spline. Just not sure what the hell happened? ?Using the above suggestions will I be able to move the column(and collars) pushing towards the dash in order to expose enough of the steering shaft so I can reinstall the wheel? Go easy on me as I am having a severe mental block trying not only to repair but understand what the hell happened, it should have been an easy fix. Hope I am splaining this correctly.
Thanks.
 
Sparky said:
After looking at several pics of a body steering column collars, it appears that mine are at least a couple of inches too far from the lower dash. So I presume the column is out of wack as the photos indicate the collars and therefore the column are much closer to the lower dash than mine. Not sure how this came about, I drove the car and notice the collars were loose and could be moved on the column. I removed the steering wheel and that is when I heard the shoes from the steering shaft coupler fall on the floor. Got those back in and the tried to re install the steering wheel and now there is not enough shaft to get the wheel situated on the spline. Just not sure what the hell happened? ?Using the above suggestions will I be able to move the column(and collars) pushing towards the dash in order to expose enough of the steering shaft so I can reinstall the wheel? Go easy on me as I am having a severe mental block trying not only to repair but understand what the hell happened, it should have been an easy fix. Hope I am splaining this correctly.
Thanks.
Click to expand...

Could be a few things - mismatched parts, collapsed steering shaft or altogether incorrect installation.

Again, there should be no movement in the shaft beyond the upper bearing/lock collar. The lock collar is installed on the shaft with a roll pin and once that's in, it can't move. Now, if the shaft was collapsed, you would be able to pull it apart from the bottom which sort of sounds like what you're describing but I'm really not sure.

Columns are easy to deal with. Take it out and figure out what's wrong with it.
 
As you can see I do not have the shaft in to the shaft coupling as far as it should go. The lower column collar is too far from the dash, not sure whats going on there.Is there any way to adjust the column so the collar is in the right position? Not enough shaft to install the wheel., Looks like a collapsed steering shaft? Don't know how that happened if it is. Do I have to remove the whole steering column if the shaft is collapsed or can that be pulled back while in place.
Threw in a pic of the shop too.
 

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Huh. Never seen hat before. You gotta blow through several road blocks and be really intent on doing things half-assed to end up at that point. It's almost laughable.

Take the whole thing out, you'll never figure out what happened with it still in the car. Take it apart and see what is going on with it. Like I said already, you likely have a collapsed shaft, mismatched parts and/or an incorrect install. Probably all three.

The steering shaft should not be way down like that because if it was installed correctly with the lock collar and upper bearing snap ring, there is no physical way it could have dropped down into the jacket like that. It's probably collapsed and missing the lock collar roll pin and snap ring, which is also probably why the collars were loose. The lock collar and snap ring are what keep the collars in place and tight.

This is the lock collar I am talking about. See how the roll pin goes through the collar and the shaft? If that pin was actually in and holding the collar to the shaft, there would be no way it could fall down into the jacket.
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj214/rmchrgr/IMG_9570800x600_zps36c07bf4.jpg

Here is the snap ring that retains the upper bearing. The snap ring rests in the groove.
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj214/rmchrgr/IMG_9579800x600_zpscb285cf7.jpg

Make sense?
 
rmchrgr said:
Huh. Never seen hat before. You gotta blow through several road blocks and be really intent on doing things half-assed to end up at that point. It's almost laughable.

Take the whole thing out, you'll never figure out what happened with it still in the car. Take it apart and see what is going on with it. Like I said already, you likely have a collapsed shaft, mismatched parts and/or an incorrect install. Probably all three.

The steering shaft should not be way down like that because if it was installed correctly with the lock collar and upper bearing snap ring, there is no physical way it could have dropped down into the jacket like that. It's probably collapsed and missing the lock collar roll pin and snap ring, which is also probably why the collars were loose. The lock collar and snap ring are what keep the collars in place and tight.

This is the lock collar I am talking about. See how the roll pin goes through the collar and the shaft? If that pin was actually in and holding the collar to the shaft, there would be no way it could fall down into the jacket.
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj214/rmchrgr/IMG_9570800x600_zps36c07bf4.jpg

Here is the snap ring that retains the upper bearing. The snap ring rests in the groove.
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj214/rmchrgr/IMG_9579800x600_zpscb285cf7.jpg

Make sense?
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Yup,makes sense. Let it been known I am not responsible for that cluster f#%K. As I recall the other day that snap ring was just sitting there when I took the wheel off. I was trying to decide whether I should go to a car show on Sat or go golfing. FORE!!!
Thanks for the help guys, you may hear from me again once I pull the column.
Thank you.
 
Sparky said:
Yup,makes sense. Let it been known I am not responsible for that cluster f#%K. As I recall the other day that snap ring was just sitting there when I took the wheel off. I was trying to decide whether I should go to a car show on Sat or go golfing. FORE!!!
Thanks for the help guys, you may hear from me again once I pull the column.
Thank you.
Click to expand...

No problem. Let us know what you find when you take it apart, curious to know myself.
 
rmchrgr said:
No problem. Let us know what you find when you take it apart, curious to know myself.
Click to expand...

Took the shaft out today. I have never done this before but it does not look like it is collapsed. Thew shaft is exactly 35 and 1/2 inches long as it sits in the vice. If that is right I guess I will put the whole shitaroo back together using the manual and instructions I have gathered. Thoughts?
 

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If the shaft is not collapsed then it has to be either the lock collar or snap ring. Pull very gently on the two halves of the shaft to see if they slide apart. If it's still "whole" so to speak and the plastic shear pins are solidly intact, then check the lock collar and snap ring for proper installation. Look over the pics I posted, those two parts should have been in place when you took out the shaft. I'm betting they weren't which is why the collars were floating around.Did you drive a roll pin out of the lock collar to get it off? You said the snap ring was just laying there when you took the wheel off. Again, if that was the case, then the collar with the bearing inside it would have been able to move around which sounds like what you were experiencing. My only other guess is that you have mismatched parts that don't fit together.

If everything checks out then put it back together. If you end up with the same deal then there is something amiss with the steering components or the dash frame and column brackets.

Other than that, I'm out of ideas.
 
rmchrgr said:
If the shaft is not collapsed then it has to be either the lock collar or snap ring. Pull very gently on the two halves of the shaft to see if they slide apart. If it's still "whole" so to speak and the plastic shear pins are solidly intact, then check the lock collar and snap ring for proper installation. Look over the pics I posted, those two parts should have been in place when you took out the shaft. I'm betting they weren't which is why the collars were floating around.Did you drive a roll pin out of the lock collar to get it off? You said the snap ring was just laying there when you took the wheel off. Again, if that was the case, then the collar with the bearing inside it would have been able to move around which sounds like what you were experiencing. My only other guess is that you have mismatched parts that don't fit together.

If everything checks out then put it back together. If you end up with the same deal then there is something amiss with the steering components or the dash frame and column brackets.



Other than that, I'm out of ideas.
Click to expand...

Looks and feels like the shaft has not been collapsed. In my set up there is no lock collar nor is there a hole to put a roll pin through(on the steering shaft)I will try and put it back together and try and figure out why this happened. Everything was OK other than the collars being loose which is why I took the wheel off in the first place. I wonder if there is some tech info regarding the UN-collapsed steering shaft measurement. As I noted before, mine is 35.5 inches long, if I knew that measurement is correct, then I would be sure it is not collapsed. No telling what might have been "modified" in the last 50 years.
 
Yep 67'-69' don't have the lock collar that didn't happen until the key moved to the column
 
Here is a shot in the dark, does anyone have a steering shaft from a 68 cuda in the shop? I need to know what the un-collapsed measurement is.
 
cudascott said:
Yep 67'-69' don't have the lock collar that didn't happen until the key moved to the column
Click to expand...

Well, there you go. I've never actually taken apart a pre-'70 column. Sorry for any misleading info.

Regardless, you would know if the shaft is collapsed by pulling the two halves apart. I've had one come apart by pulling on it so if you're sure it's solid, don't mess with it.

Not sure about pre-'70 but on '70-up cars there is about a 3" difference in shaft length between power and manual steering columns, power being shorter because the steering gear itself is larger. The couplers are also different as well because the splines on the steering box input shafts are different. Either coupler will fit the same way on the shaft but won't interchange between steering gears. The manual coupler is slightly longer than the power one.

Maybe you have a power steering shaft in a manual coupler? That might be why the shoes fell out.
 
The shaft feels solid for sure, I think if it were collapsed I would be able to tell, I searched around and found an old thread that stated the automatic steering shafts are 36 and 3/8 long. Problem is I don't know if that is accurate info. I think I will try and put it all back together and see what happens.
Thanks for the help, keep the info coming and maybe I will get this problem solved.
 
Soooo, everthing is back together. I think I can re and re that whole set up with my eyes closed. I drilled and pined the shaft at 36 3/8, put it all back together ( for the umpteenth time) and it was still too short. Took it all back out and pulled(hammered) the two shaft sections apart. Just used a set of large vice grips and a rubber mallet. I found the factory grooves. I was expecting Holes through the shaft. There is a groove in the smaller shaft about 1/4 inch wide and about 1/8th deep. it was filled with the plastic. Tapped it back together so the grooves lined up with the holes,drilled it and pinned it again. I then measured it and it was 37 and 5/8 something like that. Go figure? Not sure what has been done to the car in the past 50 years. I am guessing that it is not the original part but everything else looks correct.
I just have to pop the wheel off again, I thought I had the wheels and the steering wheel lined up but I am a quarter turn out. I learned alot doing the job just can't figue out whats up with the length of the shaft.
Thanks for the help guys.
Spark
 
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