Stop in for a cup of coffee

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Mopar Tim said:
IMO magnaflow are for imports. Flowmaster works better in higher displacement engines. They don't drone if you continue the exhaust to the rear, like it belongs....IMO.......:thumbsup:
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It’s not about sound...it’s about scavenging efficiency and performance. The Flow masters use a multi-baffle re-direct flow system that reduces flow and scavenging efficiency for the sake of sound. The MagnaFlows are a straight through design that maximizes exhaust flow and scavenging efficiency, with somewhat quieter sound.

Muffler Construction
The primary difference between Magnaflow and Flowmaster is the construction and the sound-canceling technology they use.

Magnaflow mufflers have a straight-through design and are filled with stainless steel acoustical packing material around a perforated pipe.

Flowmaster mufflers have a chamber-style design and use no acoustical packing material. Instead, they use metal plates, called baffles, to separate the sound waves. After the sound waves are redirected they collide and cancel each other out.

Magnaflow vs. Flowmaster
magnaflow_muffler_cutaway-300x300.jpg
flowmaster_muffler_cutaway-300x300.jpg



Scavenging Effect
The perforated stainless steel core in a Magnaflow muffler has no flow restrictions compared to Flowmasters chambered mufflers. This means your exhaust gases will flow right through the muffler at their normal speed.

Fast moving exhaust gases equals more horsepower for you.
 
Ddaddy said:
Yeah, I have been in discussions with my Speed Shop guy to put a 2.5” MagnaFlow fully welded dual system on it. It definitely needs better flow and he agrees. It is restricting the power as it is now. Might do another H pipe, but not sure it really needs it. I’m not racing it and the cam isn’t as radical as it was in the original crate engine since I replaced it.

Probably in the Spring, if not sooner. It depends on his Shop schedule.
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I'll say it looks like it was done pretty nicely.
The resistance inside most mufflers is far more than in the plain tubing. If he can change just the mufflers to 2.5 in/out that would be just as good. The transition up into the muffler should be pretty easy. The difficult part IMO is the transition to the tail pipes. The near 90 degree bend right after the exit seems to be a flow killer depending on how it is done.

We reused the 2 1/4 out from Accurate when I switched to the 2 1/2" out Magnaflows. I think its bad enough turn that it may be affecting more than just top end, but certainly not good for 1/4 mile or road courses. Fugly.

I've got a lightly used set of mandrel bent TTI 2 1/2" tailpipes, but they will require cutting and welding to fit. TTI bends the pipes assuming the mufflers hang from the seatbelt bolt locations (IIRC). No idea why, but they do. On a '67 they exit too far inboard, so more cutting and fabricating for me. But for '68 and up, I think that's factory location.
 
Ddaddy said:
It’s not about sound...it’s about scavenging efficiency and performance. The Flow masters use a multi-baffle re-direct flow system that reduces flow and scavenging efficiency for the sake of sound. The MagnaFlows are a straight through design that maximizes exhaust flow and scavenging efficiency, with somewhat quieter sound.

Muffler Construction
The primary difference between Magnaflow and Flowmaster is the construction and the sound-canceling technology they use.

Magnaflow mufflers have a straight-through design and are filled with stainless steel acoustical packing material around a perforated pipe.

Flowmaster mufflers have a chamber-style design and use no acoustical packing material. Instead, they use metal plates, called baffles, to separate the sound waves. After the sound waves are redirected they collide and cancel each other out.

Magnaflow vs. Flowmaster
View attachment 1715413393 View attachment 1715413394


Scavenging Effect
The perforated stainless steel core in a Magnaflow muffler has no flow restrictions compared to Flowmasters chambered mufflers. This means your exhaust gases will flow right through the muffler at their normal speed.

Fast moving exhaust gases equals more horsepower for you.
Click to expand...
OK, how come the flowmasters perform better on the dyno?
 
Mopar Tim said:
OK, how come the flowmasters perform better on the dyno?
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Dyno measurements are worthless as far as I am concerned. Too many variables and reproducibility is poor at best. I can get a Dyno to support or refute any theory I want if I cherry pick the data and conditions.

I prefer solid engineering basics and evaluation to determine what works best. There is no doubt that a straight through muffler design will out perform a redirected baffled design that causes exhaust gases to follow a twisted path. It’s simple physics that can’t be refuted by a dyno run saying otherwise.

It just isn’t possible.
 
Ddaddy said:
Dyno measurements are worthless as far as I am concerned. Too many variables and reproducibility is poor at best. I can get a Dyno to support or refute any theory I want if I cherry pick the data and conditions.

I prefer solid engineering basics and evaluation to determine what works best. There is no doubt that a straight through muffler design will out perform a redirected baffled design that causes exhaust gases to follow a twisted path. It’s simple physics that can’t be refuted by a dyno run saying otherwise.

It just isn’t possible.
Click to expand...
As far restriction goes, I think the flow bench comparison is probably about as consistant of a test method as can be done. And even that, depending on whose doing it and the procedures...
 
Mattax said:
As far restriction goes, I think the flow bench comparison is probably about as consistant of a test method as can be done. And even that, depending on whose doing it and the procedures...
Click to expand...
Good data in the thread and exactly what I was saying.

2 ½” 8221; Inlet/Outlet Flowmaster ( 2 Chamber) 249 CFM
2 ½” 8221; Inlet Outlet Flowmaster ( 3 Chamber) 229 CFM
2 1/2" Inlet/Outlet Magnaflow 284 CFM

MagnaFlow has 20% more flow than either of the Flowmaster configurations.


It also produced a little more peak HP. The dynamic range wasn’t tested, but it’s likely a larger differential at lower RPM.

Magnaflow 372.8 HP
Flowmaster 369.4 Hp
 
Ddaddy said:
Good data in the thread and exactly what I was saying.

2 ½” 8221; Inlet/Outlet Flowmaster ( 2 Chamber) 249 CFM
2 ½” 8221; Inlet Outlet Flowmaster ( 3 Chamber) 229 CFM
2 1/2" Inlet/Outlet Magnaflow 284 CFM

MagnaFlow has 20% more flow than either of the Flowmaster configurations.


It also produced a little more peak HP. The dynamic range wasn’t tested, but it’s likely a larger differential at lower RPM.

Magnaflow 372.8 HP
Flowmaster 369.4 Hp
Click to expand...
And the Magnaflows sound better and not louder. IMO
 
toolmanmike said:
And the Magnaflows sound better and not louder. IMO
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I'm staying out of it, because I don't agree. See, that is why they make both mufflers, choice! I have seen several side by side comparisons and flow master always come out on top, on the lying dyno....
 
Ddaddy said:
Good data in the thread and exactly what I was saying.

2 ½” 8221; Inlet/Outlet Flowmaster ( 2 Chamber) 249 CFM
2 ½” 8221; Inlet Outlet Flowmaster ( 3 Chamber) 229 CFM
2 1/2" Inlet/Outlet Magnaflow 284 CFM

MagnaFlow has 20% more flow than either of the Flowmaster configurations.


It also produced a little more peak HP. The dynamic range wasn’t tested, but it’s likely a larger differential at lower RPM.

Magnaflow 372.8 HP
Flowmaster 369.4 Hp
Click to expand...
I agree, but of course I'm biased. LOL

Same data shows that even a 2" tube can flow more than the mufflers if it was just a straight run.
2 “ Straight Pipe 283 CFM
2 ¼ “ Straight Pipe 365 CFM
2 ½ “ Straight Pipe 521 CFM

2 ¼” Typical Bent tailpipe 268 CFM
2 ½” Typical Bent Tailpipe 417 CFM

The bends and transitions can add up, especially if badly placed or executed. :(
Only saving grace is by the time the exhaust hits the end of the mufflers its cooled a fair amount.
But even then, this just can't be good.
upload_2019-4-14_23-5-56-png.1715320242


upload_2019-10-24_23-1-17.png
 
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Mopar Tim said:
I'm staying out of it, because I don't agree. See, that is why they make both mufflers, choice! I have seen several side by side comparisons and flow master always come out on top, on the lying dyno....
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One thing I have noticed about the sound of the Flowmasters is that all cars sound the same. All brands, all engines. IMO
 
Mopar Tim said:
I'm staying out of it, because I don't agree. See, that is why they make both mufflers, choice! I have seen several side by side comparisons and flow master always come out on top, on the lying dyno....
Click to expand...
You can choose what you want for your reasons, and I will choose what I want for mine.

It is what makes this hobby fun and keeps friends together as we do what we want and support each other’s choices as we build our cars.

There is no wrong or right, just personal choices for what we want.
 
My experiences with flowmaster is they are louder than they let on in the ads.

I bought 2 pair of delta 60s for two different trucks and both setups are way louder than I thought and I even went with those particular ones because the ads and videos said they would be quiet.
 
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Rainy Day Auto said:
My experiences with flowmaster is they are louder than they let on in the ads.

I bought 2 pair of delta 60s for two different trucks and both setups are way louder than I thought and I even went with those particular ones because the ads and videos said they would be quiet.
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Quiet compared to their '40' and '50' series....or a jet taking off...
:lol:
The little things they 'forget' to mention in the ads.
:rolleyes:
 
Sounds like they worked out.
pun unintended ... they just show up their own. lol
 
toolmanmike said:
True that but I don't want my Mopar to sound like a Mustang! LOL
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Uff, that would be a sad day if a Mopar sounded like a Mustang. My wife does not like Mustangs, she has had a 1969 Charger with 383, and is currently driving a 06 Charger Daytona. I have to tease her a little about that, say if she get a flowmaster her Daytona will sound like a Mustang...

Bill
 
I always thought of mustangs as a good car for an average girl.

I mean the kind of girl who barely knows how to put gas in it and knows that gas spelled backwards is sag.

Every mustang I have ever drove was just not a comfortable ride. If I were into fords, I highly doubt I would have any Mustangs when Ford has so many other good cars to choose from.

I would go with a crown Victoria before a mustang. Can you imagine a crown vic with a 4.6 quad cam swap...... SLEEPER!!!

or for old stuff, a maverick with a 5.0 mark 7 engine.

Heck, just thinking about it.......
 
Rainy Day Auto said:
I always thought of mustangs as a good car for an average girl.

I mean the kind of girl who barely knows how to put gas in it and knows that gas spelled backwards is sag.

Every mustang I have ever drove was just not a comfortable ride. If I were into fords, I highly doubt I would have any Mustangs when Ford has so many other good cars to choose from.

I would go with a crown Victoria before a mustang. Can you imagine a crown vic with a 4.6 quad cam swap...... SLEEPER!!!

or for old stuff, a maverick with a 5.0 mark 7 engine.

Heck, just thinking about it.......
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A Crown Victoria / Grand Marquis can have a 5.4 liter, but you have to swap the intake from the old 4.6 liter, if not it will stick up through the hood and it is not a sleeper anymore. :D

Bill
 
I am going to have to try that coffee next go round.

I never make coffee, so I need to figure it out.
For some reason the coffee is always made before i show up, everywhere I go.

I go to my parents house and they have it ready to go, I go to my office and it's already ready to go.
Most of the time a guy in my office brings me coffee to my office room.

So, I never make it but it's always there..... so weird actually the more i think about such a small detail.
 
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