Stroker intake question and guidance, mainly guidance.

[JBurch]

So the only thing left to decide on my engine is intake manifold. Bear(bare) with me on this over asked question? This car will be 95% street driven. Maybe a 1/4 pass or autocross once in a while. But it'll mainly be a driver, cruiser and canyon carver through the mountains.

2. Edelbrock RPM air gap. This will need the plenum divider cut in hopes that the EFI will receive a decent MAP signal. I feel this is my best performance option but my main concern is with the EFI. I've installed and had trouble with vacuum signals on dual plane intakes and distribution.

If you are cutting the divider out, why not just go with a single plane, no divider to cut out to maintain signal strength and by removing the divider you've removed the item that makes the intake a dual plane, as that is what separates one bank form the other..........actually if it were in your budget, go with port EFI, no distribution problems, the only thing the intake has to do is deliver air and the engine could care less what the configuration the manifold is

 

[yellow rose]

The last picture with the twin triangular air cleaners with the foam element....that catches fire on back fires.... flame throwers....

The other pictures, only the M1 TR is mine.

On your opinion given on a single plane on a stroker, what ever..... your best bet is to talk to the people that race them. Your vast knowledge is best suited there with them.

I was just reporting what others have reported.
I myself would run the single plane. 99% of the racers here are not heads up racers but bracket racers. My wallet is to thin for heads up. Since bracket racing is just being consistent, one could run a totally screwed up combination and be a winner if they are consistent.

Ok, flame throwers. Got it now.

 

[RogerRamRod]

I'm lost. What's a flame thrower for the air cleaner? You young kids have a different vocabulary than us older gents.

LOL, I’m probably older than you. Old enough anyway to remember a few friends with those fire hazard air filters. But man, get that & some slappers, air shocks, & a Kraco 40 watt under dash power booster and you were ready to cruise

 

[MopaR&D]

The purpose of dual-plane intakes is to give better vacuum signal to the carb and separate the cylinders that fire right after each other on the same bank for better fuel distribution. Totally pointless with port EFI, that's why all modern engines run "single plane" intakes with long curvy runners and GIGANTIC plenums (the old 5.0L HO Mustang engines are a good visual example, or a modern Gen 3 Hemi). Most of the bottom-end torque loss you get with a single-plane manifold and carburetor is due to the poor fuel distribution and weak/unsteady vacuum signal at the carb; EFI brings most of that back.

I haven't measured it myself but it seems like the difference in runner length between a carb'd single and dual-plane is only a couple inches anyway...? I don't think that alone will affect the torque curve much.

 

[justinp61]

If they have a 4 inch stroke and the single plane "hurt the bottom end power" they had something else wrong. Usually the wrong cam because we all love to buy off the shelf cams. Or the converter is way too tight. Or something else tune up wise.


Edit:BTW, the Pro Dominator is still the best TR you have in those pictures. Looks like a butt load of taper in that sheet metal manifold. You need taper, but if the outside is any indication of actual taper that's a lot.

YR is spot on here. Unless the stroker has very low compression, huge cam, poor heads and is in a very heavy (dump truck) with 2.76 gears run a good single plane intake. A Weiand X-Celerator would be a good one IMO.

 

[autoxcuda]

A few members who have run the two intakes in 4.00 arm strokers at the track would disagree with you. Oddly enough with the cam size he has, the rpm was quicker. Though I can agree that a single plane wouldn’t be a deal killer.

Like these? LOL!
View attachment 1715335492 View attachment 1715335493 View attachment 1715335494 View attachment 1715335495

That’s if you take it to a drag strip.

On the street it’s much harder to hook up. Making the off the line torque not useful.

Same, if you are autocrossing or road course track day-ing it.

 

[rumblefish360]

The purpose of dual-plane intakes is for better fuel distribution.

Disagree. Dual planes have always shown worse.

I haven't measured it myself but it seems like the difference in runner length between a carb'd single and dual-plane is only a couple inches anyway...? I don't think that alone will affect the torque curve much.

Single planes have shorter runners, one of the reasons they operate at higher RPMs. Longer and/or skinnier runners of the same length make better torque. This also adds to a better throttle response. (Drivability)

 

[famous bob]

A few members who have run the two intakes in 4.00 arm strokers at the track would disagree with you. Oddly enough with the cam size he has, the rpm was quicker. Though I can agree that a single plane wouldn’t be a deal killer.

Like these? LOL!
View attachment 1715335492 View attachment 1715335493 View attachment 1715335494 View attachment 1715335495

You better watch the foam in those breathers ----------

 

[famous bob]

Disagree. Dual planes have always shown worse.



Single planes have shorter runners, one of the reasons they operate at higher RPMs. Longer and/or skinnier runners of the same length make better torque. This also adds to a better throttle response. (Drivability)

HYYMM, I went to a victor from a torquer 2, and didn`t lose a dam thing , think I gained all the way across / big block stroker tho ----

 

[MopaR&D]

Disagree. Dual planes have always shown worse.



Single planes have shorter runners, one of the reasons they operate at higher RPMs. Longer and/or skinnier runners of the same length make better torque. This also adds to a better throttle response. (Drivability)

Fuel distribution is probably better at higher RPMs WOT but what about low-RPM part-throttle, isn't the dual-plane better?

What I was getting at is I think the separation of the 4 cylinders to their own plenum has more of an effect on drivability than the slightly longer runners... maybe I'm wrong though my stock 318 came with the split-single plane 2-bbl intake and that obviously didn't have drivability issues.

 

[yellow rose]

Fuel distribution is probably better at higher RPMs WOT but what about low-RPM part-throttle, isn't the dual-plane better?

What I was getting at is I think the separation of the 4 cylinders to their own plenum has more of an effect on drivability than the slightly longer runners... maybe I'm wrong though my stock 318 came with the split-single plane 2-bbl intake and that obviously didn't have drivability issues.

Since air has to follow the laws of physics, the answer is no, distribution is NOT better with a DP manifold.

Since air has to follow the laws of physics, any time you put a corner in something you damn well better know why you're doing it.

The correctly sized single plane intake will always make more power everywhere than a DP intake. Always. You just have to get the rest of it right.

Just like a tunnel ram will always make more bottom end power than any single 4 intake. Always. You just have to get the rest of it right.

 

[rumblefish360]

You better watch the foam in those breathers ----------

Thanks but there not mine.

 

[mbaird]

Let me get this straight.
We have a 4" torque monster stroker motor with a torque inducing camshaft , a 3500 stall torque convertor that can sfread any tire we put behind it and we are concerned about loosing some bottom end power ? Because it will be street drven....

hmmm.

Wont the 3500 stall convertor bypass the low end grunt ?

 

[rumblefish360]

On a track launch yes. If it is a good converter, it will drive around well.

 

[flyfish]

I ran the Air-gap and Victor on my old 410 motor. The Air-gap was only ~1 tenth slower at the track (10.89vs 10.7x) under similar air conditions. I thought the Air-gap had better throttle response...felt a little more torquey (if that's a word)...but since I race more than I drive on the street, I stuck with the Victor. Obviously this is combo dependent, so here is what I was running at that time.

410 stroker, small street roller (248/254 @0.05, ~.575 lift), ported Eddy's, Air-gap with 1" tapered spacer, 750 carb (gasoline), 10.8:1 compression, 8" converter, 727, 4.10 gear, 3200# Barracuda.

I would go with the Air-gap.

 

[superchargeddrt]

The Flame Throwers belong on the exhaust tips, not the air cleaner

I think what he's saying is that the filter elements in that type of air cleaner tend to catch fire after a backfire.

 

[MopaR&D]

Since air has to follow the laws of physics, the answer is no, distribution is NOT better with a DP manifold.

Since air has to follow the laws of physics, any time you put a corner in something you damn well better know why you're doing it.

The correctly sized single plane intake will always make more power everywhere than a DP intake. Always. You just have to get the rest of it right.

Just like a tunnel ram will always make more bottom end power than any single 4 intake. Always. You just have to get the rest of it right.

Well I'm glad I put LA-pattern heads on my Magnum I'll have to experiment now. Always wanted to try a tunnel ram and I do have a hole cut in my hood, hmmm

 

[fishy68]

Well I'm glad I put LA-pattern heads on my Magnum I'll have to experiment now. Always wanted to try a tunnel ram and I do have a hole cut in my hood, hmmm

I hope that magnum block has been drilled so it'll oil the rockers

 

[70aarcuda]

I hope that magnum block has been drilled so it'll oil the rockers

I think he is referring to the intake manifold bolt pattern.....

 

[MopaR&D]

I hope that magnum block has been drilled so it'll oil the rockers

Yup! Well sorta... external rocker oiling Junkyard 5.9L Magnum + Edelbrock LA heads build

 

[famous bob]

I think what he's saying is that the filter elements in that type of air cleaner tend to catch fire after a backfire.

They will disinigrate and get the particles in eveything in the carb if left there too-----

 

[QuickDart360]

Victor 340. Got one on a stock stroke 360. Does good I think. But since you already have an M-1 I would just use it.

 

[famous bob]

The purpose of dual-plane intakes is to give better vacuum signal to the carb and separate the cylinders that fire right after each other on the same bank for better fuel distribution. Totally pointless with port EFI, that's why all modern engines run "single plane" intakes with long curvy runners and GIGANTIC plenums (the old 5.0L HO Mustang engines are a good visual example, or a modern Gen 3 Hemi). Most of the bottom-end torque loss you get with a single-plane manifold and carburetor is due to the poor fuel distribution and weak/unsteady vacuum signal at the carb; EFI brings most of that back.

I haven't measured it myself but it seems like the difference in runner length between a carb'd single and dual-plane is only a couple inches anyway...? I don't think that alone will affect the torque curve much.

A throttle body will get its vacuum signal from 1/2 of the engine on a dual plane , cutting the divider may help a little , but why half *** it , when u wont lose a thing w/ a single plane if everything is right ??

 

[superchargeddrt]

Running the Air Gap with a 1" spacer to even out the fuel flow. Some of the Air Gap manifolds come with a notch in the divider so a spacer is not needed Engine is Fitech injected.

 

[rumblefish360]

Running the Air Gap with a 1" spacer to even out the fuel flow. Some of the Air Gap manifolds com with a notch in the divider so a spacer is not (needed?)

I have noticed that some of my Chevy friends have still opted for the spacer in there RPMs even though they have the as cast center divider notched on there small block intakes.