Suggestions for new design Aluminum Mopar SB clean slate (kind of) cylinder heads

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Johnny Mac

Johnny Mac

www.blueprintengines.com
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All,

Time for our mopar sb lineup to get some love. I'd like to ask the masses to chime in with suggestions / observations for a BluePrint Engines Mopar SB cylinder head. (with a catch of course)

Here are some facts that are Non negotiable. Some of you won't love the "Limitations" , your opinions are welcome, but these are things I CANNOT change, based on block availability.

1. These will use pushrod oiling, and have stud mounted rockers. LA blocks in the world for a company of our Size are too sparse to use deck oiling or shaft rockers. Not interested in the cost of shaft rockers, or trying to oil shaft rockers through the pushrods. Just is what it is.
2. I hope to utilize the LA intake manifold bolt pattern opposed to magnum. Opens up aftermarket intake availability. I think the intake bolts (LA vs magnum) occupy the same realestate, so there won't be enough meat to machine both at the same time. has to be 1 or the other. correct me if i'm wrong.
3. Keeping in mind we're an engine manufacture first, not a head company....the idea is to use these on our engines first....and offer them to the aftermarket as capacity allows.
4. Must be magnum head -ish based. I cannot get into weird W2 ports, completely moving the pushrod holes, etc. These are primary going in 500HP and down cars, so they must fit without weird custom headers, use avail intakes, etc.

outside of the above, I would love to hear things you dislike about the other few heads on the market, or would change. EX: do the magnum edelbrocks have missing bolt bosses vs an LA? are magnum based heads fatter somewhere an LA isn't, so they make it hard to bolt on OE accessories. (may be completely false, just throwing out examples)

Should be a nice little 290 ish CFM street/strip head with a 2.08 intake valve that does everything we need it to do, w/o getting too exotic.

thanks everyone in advance for the input.
 
Johnny Mac said:
2. I hope to utilize the LA intake manifold bolt pattern opposed to magnum. Opens up aftermarket intake availability. I think the intake bolts (LA vs magnum) occupy the same realestate, so there won't be enough meat to machine both at the same time. has to be 1 or the other. correct me if i'm wrong.
Click to expand...
The Speedmaster and other imported Air Gap intake clones have both the LA and Magnum bolt pattern on the same intake. I'm not aware of it causing any problems. They furnish plugs for the holes you aren't using.
This will be a really nice option if you are able to make it happen. I'm not much of an expert but if you can get 290cfm out of the box with good part and machining quality and be less expensive than the Trick Flow option, you should sell a bunch. I'm assuming aluminum and not cast iron, correct?
 
While the LA and Magnum intake bolts are similarly located, the angles are substantially different and can co-exist in the same head. For example, many of us have redrilled (or had the shop redrill) Magnum heads with the LA intake bolt angle, with no issues. It could prove to be a nice selling point for your heads, with a very minimal additional manufacturing cost.
The only drawback, depending on the final design, would be if one set of holes or the other were open to a water jacket. But this could easily be solved by a set of allen screws installed into the unused set of holes with sealer.
Keep the decks thicker than factory Magnums to avoid the cracking issue they had.
JMO, but you could do a lot worse than to use the old (New Zealand) EQ head as a basis for your new offering. Keep the pricepoint reasonable and you'll sell a bunch of them.
 
I’m assuming you’ll be setting them up for SBC rockers.
If not, I’d suggest you do.

Make sure the pushrod slots will easily clear the use of 1.6 rocker ratio.

Make the spring installed height at least 1.800”, and 1.900” would be better.

Valve/rocker positioning to fit/accommodate 1.55” springs would be nice, along with making the heads accept that diameter without needing extra machining.
 
I know you allready mentioned it will be magnum based, but I would like to point out a valve cover with 10 bolts tends to leak less then one with 5 (while still allowing you to bolt up LA covers, should you want to)
 
Johnny Mac said:
All,

Time for our mopar sb lineup to get some love. I'd like to ask the masses to chime in with suggestions / observations for a BluePrint Engines Mopar SB cylinder head. (with a catch of course)

Here are some facts that are Non negotiable. Some of you won't love the "Limitations" , your opinions are welcome, but these are things I CANNOT change, based on block availability.

1. These will use pushrod oiling, and have stud mounted rockers. LA blocks in the world for a company of our Size are too sparse to use deck oiling or shaft rockers. Not interested in the cost of shaft rockers, or trying to oil shaft rockers through the pushrods. Just is what it is.
2. I hope to utilize the LA intake manifold bolt pattern opposed to magnum. Opens up aftermarket intake availability. I think the intake bolts (LA vs magnum) occupy the same realestate, so there won't be enough meat to machine both at the same time. has to be 1 or the other. correct me if i'm wrong.
3. Keeping in mind we're an engine manufacture first, not a head company....the idea is to use these on our engines first....and offer them to the aftermarket as capacity allows.
4. Must be magnum head -ish based. I cannot get into weird W2 ports, completely moving the pushrod holes, etc. These are primary going in 500HP and down cars, so they must fit without weird custom headers, use avail intakes, etc.

outside of the above, I would love to hear things you dislike about the other few heads on the market, or would change. EX: do the magnum edelbrocks have missing bolt bosses vs an LA? are magnum based heads fatter somewhere an LA isn't, so they make it hard to bolt on OE accessories. (may be completely false, just throwing out examples)

Should be a nice little 290 ish CFM street/strip head with a 2.08 intake valve that does everything we need it to do, w/o getting too exotic.

thanks everyone in advance for the input.
Click to expand...


A 2.08 valve won’t clear some pistons I’m told and is totally unnecessary in a 290 cfm head. A 2.02 with do it and a 2.055 does it easily
 
gzig5 said:
The Speedmaster and other imported Air Gap intake clones have both the LA and Magnum bolt pattern on the same intake. I'm not aware of it causing any problems. They furnish plugs for the holes you aren't using.
This will be a really nice option if you are able to make it happen. I'm not much of an expert but if you can get 290cfm out of the box with good part and machining quality and be less expensive than the Trick Flow option, you should sell a bunch. I'm assuming aluminum and not cast iron, correct?
Click to expand...
Correct, aluminum only. plan is 290 ish, we have a prototype doing it. There are experts on here getting alot more out of SB mopar heads, but again the idea is to keep these mainstream, and not cross into exotic. My in house testing on the airgap imports is they scrub major HP. I'd like this to spawn a "bigger" single plane version of our 408, so needs to have LA bolts. THANK YOU for the feedback.
 
The edelbrock head castings DO crowd the factory style alternator more than a factory head, that should be a consideration. I see no reason for a 2.08 valve personally, you probably wont have enough port to support that, plus the shrouding of the "magnumish" chamber it probably needs. My 2 cents is set it up with a 2.02, make the intake port opening more sized to the LA size, chevy rocker, taller installed height, common spring diameter. And a smaller, more modern chamber.
 
Professor Fate said:
While the LA and Magnum intake bolts are similarly located, the angles are substantially different and can co-exist in the same head. For example, many of us have redrilled (or had the shop redrill) Magnum heads with the LA intake bolt angle, with no issues. It could prove to be a nice selling point for your heads, with a very minimal additional manufacturing cost.
The only drawback, depending on the final design, would be if one set of holes or the other were open to a water jacket. But this could easily be solved by a set of allen screws installed into the unused set of holes with sealer.
Keep the decks thicker than factory Magnums to avoid the cracking issue they had.
JMO, but you could do a lot worse than to use the old (New Zealand) EQ head as a basis for your new offering. Keep the pricepoint reasonable and you'll sell a bunch of them.
Click to expand...
I have truthfully never looked closely at the LA and magnum pattern side by side. based on the jigs i saw, seemed they took up the same real estate, and may cross thread if the threads overlap, but i could be 100% wrong. will try to do some research on this. thank you!
 
diymirage said:
I know you allready mentioned it will be magnum based, but I would like to point out a valve cover with 10 bolts tends to leak less then one with 5 (while still allowing you to bolt up LA covers, should you want to)
Click to expand...
my only issue there is Magnum valve covers are very $. We put the LA covers on the MAg heads today. so as long as production doesn't have issues with them leaking, the Mag "extra" bolts will stay. thanks.
 
Too bad the old Mopar crate engine magnum head wasn’t available in aluminum. My friends car easily run mid 10’s with a little love and a 2.055 valve. That head would suit you well.
 
Johnny Mac said:
I have truthfully never looked closely at the LA and magnum pattern side by side. based on the jigs i saw, seemed they took up the same real estate, and may cross thread if the threads overlap, but i could be 100% wrong. will try to do some research on this. thank you!
Click to expand...
Using modern machining centers, it would be very simple to write a different program to drill LA vs magnum intake pattern, depending on intake preference
 
Why does Blueprint always think so small.
Any new cylinder head under 300cfm is a waste . imo
 
pittsburghracer said:
Too bad the old Mopar crate engine magnum head wasn’t available in aluminum. My friends car easily run mid 10’s with a little love and a 2.055 valve. That head would suit you well.
Click to expand...
unfortunately nothing "Mopar" is very available any more... I do appreciate you chiming in! was hoping you would.
 
fishmens67 said:
Why does Blueprint always think so small.
Any new cylinder head under 300cfm is a waste . imo
Click to expand...
it's got to fit within certain parameters. Sorry. If someone wants to build custom headers for big HP, we might as well sell them a Hemi.
 
They could take the same engine and list it in 4-5 stages by changing the compression and cam. 400-575 give or take a little.
 
290 cfm will be a nice little head- even the Magnum R/Ts only flowed about 230, from what I've read.
On a side note, if you're having problems finding Magnum valve covers, check out Ansen. Black, bare or polished. Not a bad price, either.
1681247895797.png

Mopar Performance Magnum Valve Covers - 5.2/5.9L (Black)
 
Gliddens Pro Stock Arrow ran a W2 with canted valves…..let’s do something to fix the bad geometry too.
 
Mr. Sinister said:
Gliddens Pro Stock Arrow ran a W2 with canted valves…..let’s do something to fix the bad geometry too.
Click to expand...

He’s try to keep it simple I think. Something that 70-80 percent of the Mopar market is looking for. Even TrickFlow did this when they released their small block Mopar head. Street, street strip is where the money is for someone building crate engines.
 
Deepen the bowl a bit give us a raised short side radius, especially in the exhaust port. Make all the exhaust ports the same. And give use some meat so we can port without hitting the water jackets. Leave the pushrod clearance holes out so we can move them where we want.

And by the way ball stud rocker arms suck.
 
pittsburghracer said:
Too bad the old Mopar crate engine magnum head wasn’t available in aluminum. My friends car easily run mid 10’s with a little love and a 2.055 valve. That head would suit you well.
Click to expand...
Somebody needs to copy a Pittsburghracer/Speedmaster head. No reason yours can't be "as cast". :thumbsup:
 
toolmanmike said:
Somebody needs to copy a Pittsburghracer/Speedmaster head. No reason yours can't be "as cast". :thumbsup:
Click to expand...


Never happen without tubing them and lost production time. Now on a magnum head it could probably be doable because when bolt holes are hit on non oiling bolt holes I think they leave the head bolt seal everything up. And magnums have non oiling bolt holes.
 
I am no longer dealing with small blocks, but I always wondered why the magnum heads had such a narrow pushrod pinch compared the the LA heads, especially since the pushrods are in the same position?
 
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