rustbucket69
New Member
Have you gotten all the parts needed to get everything together now? I was just wondering what type of numbers it produced.
super commando LP Rockers?
- Thread starter Johnny Mac
- Start date
-
Have you gotten all the parts needed to get everything together now? I was just wondering what type of numbers it produced.
still in pieces, got the rocker nightmare figures out with help from harland sharp. i decided to go full roller setup, which i waited MONTHS to get the morel lifters. turns out the block needs MAJOR grinding to get the roller lifters even into the lifter bores. so everything had to be torn down to bare block again and i'm still grinding. i'm so sick of telling people "yeah it'll be together next week" it's one nightmare/fitment issue after the other.
i'll post my dyno results once this 10K boat anchor is together.
i'll post my dyno results once this 10K boat anchor is together.
needsaresto
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2004
- Messages
- 7,603
- Reaction score
- 265
This is the thing that makes me sooo leary of some aftermarket brands. You'd think that after paying top dollar,you should get a part thats good to go and needs no mods.Yet everyones combination of parts will be slightly different anf thus maybe it doesnt fit at all!
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
Just read this so Ill post so as maybe to help someone later on. Its pretty simple and may have been asnwered. I didnt read the entire thread.
Here goes.
If you MUST use an offset intake, there is the W-2/5 stuff. If that is too much offset, you MUST use the T/A offset rocker.
Its that simple.
And the T/A rocker is damn near impossible to find. I know of a set. They are not for sale.
This thread is very old so i didn't bother resurrecting it, but now as it has been...
I have had these heads running on my car, deep into the 10's, for years now. Since as you mention those offset rockers are not something that is readily avail, it's pretty much going to be a thousand dollar set of custom rockers, unless TD or someone has the blueprints and punches them out. Harland sharp declared them one-off enough to not bother with marketing them, even after done with mine.
These are NOT optimal for a 4.030 bore, and are really only meant for the R block, and you will have valve shrouding issues on the smaller bore that limits flow, and makes these LESS effective than the edelbrock RPM out of the box.
I ended up making 620 HP on a stock 360 block. Took way more in custom porting than it was worth.
these are an RPM, with the intake valve oversized, and physical moved in the head. I HIGHLY recommend calling me to order a set of edelbrocks at 5% off, and then sending them to a professional porter to make them flow. There are plenty of guys making the eddies flow 300 CFM. And you're probably way far ahead than trying to use these on a 4.030 bore, and paying to have them ported and unshrouded anyways.
thats my 2 cents.
I have had these heads running on my car, deep into the 10's, for years now. Since as you mention those offset rockers are not something that is readily avail, it's pretty much going to be a thousand dollar set of custom rockers, unless TD or someone has the blueprints and punches them out. Harland sharp declared them one-off enough to not bother with marketing them, even after done with mine.
These are NOT optimal for a 4.030 bore, and are really only meant for the R block, and you will have valve shrouding issues on the smaller bore that limits flow, and makes these LESS effective than the edelbrock RPM out of the box.
I ended up making 620 HP on a stock 360 block. Took way more in custom porting than it was worth.
these are an RPM, with the intake valve oversized, and physical moved in the head. I HIGHLY recommend calling me to order a set of edelbrocks at 5% off, and then sending them to a professional porter to make them flow. There are plenty of guys making the eddies flow 300 CFM. And you're probably way far ahead than trying to use these on a 4.030 bore, and paying to have them ported and unshrouded anyways.
thats my 2 cents.
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
Since I have rockers, if someone wants to dump a set of those heads I'd be willing to buy them.
If they take an offset rocker they SHOULD make more power than any other ebrock head using a standard rocker.
If they take an offset rocker they SHOULD make more power than any other ebrock head using a standard rocker.
What bore do you plan on using? I'd just like to point out they published these in the mopar book with flow number from a 4.125 bore, thats cheating. A stock 318 head would flow well on that bore... its very misleading. AS CAST these flowed a MAX of 269 CFM on the intake side, and that was only at 500 lift (4.030). Without some serious porting and valve unshrouding, they are not optimal. If you have a big bore block laying around, then disregard my comments.
AFTER PORTING (by TEA, a respected head porter owned by TFS, Owned by Summit), they BARELY flowed 290 CFM on a 4.030 bore. Am i bitching about my 600 horse smallblock...no not at all. Do i hate these heads? no, not at all.... But do i fully believe i lit about $1000 on fire by buying these over the edelbrocks that were avail..yes...100% yes. They were more than the edelbrocks, required the exact same amount of work as the edelbrocks, and furthermore, required custom rockers at additional $XX. Just trying to save anyone else from the money i wasted 5+ years ago.
So how much offset was required? Was it .350"? Hughes offers that offset for the big mouth heads. I think the TA rocker offset is .500" and w2 offset is .775".
And then MoPar wonders why they can't sell or much less make a profit in material. IIRC, these heads sell currently for approximately $1,000 each.
Soooooooo, why am I purchasing these heads? Oh right! To spend another like of money on rockers! That's right!!!!!
I loved the idea of a factory performance part being able to make some really nice power but those W5 replacements are waaaaaaay outta line.
Initial cost and the extra parts cost and never mind the porting cost on top of it all.
Wanna go out of biz? Follow MoPars way of doing things.
They should have gotten the W5 thing right.
Soooooooo, why am I purchasing these heads? Oh right! To spend another like of money on rockers! That's right!!!!!
I loved the idea of a factory performance part being able to make some really nice power but those W5 replacements are waaaaaaay outta line.
Initial cost and the extra parts cost and never mind the porting cost on top of it all.
Wanna go out of biz? Follow MoPars way of doing things.
They should have gotten the W5 thing right.
Boy you're asking alot of my memory.lol If anyone is seriously considering these, i can pop a valve cover and measure. if i remember right, the 350 is correct, but the exhaust rocker is stock. so you end up with a bastard combination of hardened shafts, offset intake, stock exhaust, and then custom spaced hold downs to keep them all in line. I know i had crane W2 rockers, and those did NOT fit. then i tried what i believed was a T/A rocker, and i don't think it fit either. i will honestly have to pop and cover and measure.
Hughes offers that combination. No bastardizing required. Hughes Engines
Edelbrock made those head for Mopar I believe also. Cylinder Head - Light Headed - Mopar Muscle Magazine
Im not arguing with anything you are saying, my point is these are Far from mainstream, in price, practicality, and application. Thats all. I prefer something that more than one dealer in the country has sitting on a shelf. I'd be one thing if these were W9 heads that flowed 390 cfm and required hand made parts, but in reality they are just "exotic" enough to be a pain in the rear, without enough gains over a ported set of regular edelbrocks to be worth it. Imo, which is worth what you are paying for it
just friendly observations from someone who owns these exact things, and deals with performance parts every day. I bought them once, and wouldn't do it again. Especially with a 4.030 bore, and valve shrouding what it is.
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
Im not arguing with anything you are saying, my point is these are Far from mainstream, in price, practicality, and application. Thats all. I prefer something that more than one dealer in the country has sitting on a shelf. I'd be one thing if these were W9 heads that flowed 390 cfm and required hand made parts, but in reality they are just "exotic" enough to be a pain in the rear, without enough gains over a ported set of regular edelbrocks to be worth it. Imo, which is worth what you are paying for it
I agree with what you are saying about the heads.
Since I started in 1980, MoPar guys have bitched about the cost of rockers. This I know. The W-2 head will out perform ANY 23* standard port chevy head to this day. The W-% head wil outperform any 23* chevy head in raised port configuration to this day. I wouldnt even consider a 400 CID small block without W-5 or better heads. Ever.
You have to spend some $$$$$ to make horsepower. It blows my mind why anyone would buy that bigmouth head. It will never run with a W-2. It still requires offset rockers. You have to move the pushrod. Its that simple.
Just more "trivia" there were also heads on the 80's called "super commandos" which were sbm also. I dont know much about them. But ya, these im talking about under the new pn are just edelbrocks with the intake valve moved enough to be a pain. And a valve big enough to disrupt airflow on a std or .030 bore block...and custom/rare rockers.
When I bought these, when I was younger and dumber, I was told by the "brilliant" mopar tech line, that these were better than the edelbrocks. And the best sb head out there. I simply didnt know then what I know now. I was newer to the industry, new to engine building, and probably barely 20 years old. Live and learn....and help your fabo buddies not make the same choice
Racers logic: not only can I tell you the right way to do it...I can tell you the 4 ways that Didnt work for me.
Why Big Mouth heads?
Advantages of the big mouth head would be;
Light weight aluminum
Moved pushrod like the W's.
Excellent air flow curve.
Standard intake and exhaust bolt patterns. No need for special intake or exhaust patterns. Or adapter plates for headers.
Cheaper headers, intakes, rockers.
W2 advantage;
Higher peak flow (?)
Larger exhaust tube sizes available
48 & 52 degree head for respective degree blocks.
Advantages of the big mouth head would be;
Light weight aluminum
Moved pushrod like the W's.
Excellent air flow curve.
Standard intake and exhaust bolt patterns. No need for special intake or exhaust patterns. Or adapter plates for headers.
Cheaper headers, intakes, rockers.
W2 advantage;
Higher peak flow (?)
Larger exhaust tube sizes available
48 & 52 degree head for respective degree blocks.
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
Evidently, the rockers ain't cheaper.
Intakes are relatively cheap.
Most W-2's have both exhaust patterns. I have 2 sets now that have both and one is the closed chamber head.
Same for same, cast iron makes more HP than aluminum.
Again, I don't see how the big mouth fits a market. Except you can use your intake. And the quickest way I know to kill a good set of heads is an unprepped intake. I have as much time in my intake as I have in the heads!!!
I just don't see it. But Dave has to make money. And everyone hates Indy, myself included.
Rockers are cheaper. By almost half.
While the W2 head may have both exhaust patten holes, the mis-match is insane!
I have not seen any head to head dyno tests to support that.
And you answered your own question very well. The BM heads are exactly that. As well as light weight with cheaper rocker arms and intakes.
While you are correct about ill preped or unpreped intakes killing a set of good flowing heads, it still is a bolt on OOTB intake if you wish (or used cheaper!)
And you'll still feel a gain.
A well ported intake shows wonders above the OOTB bolt on. So you guys considering such heads should have the intake ported FOR maximum return. It ain't cheap though!
My new W2's. Cheap from Mancini racing on there liquidation list. $400 a head bare! Not $662 each from Summit racing. Saved $525.
Damn, when I called a few weeks ago they told me they only had one head.....
MR4V
Well-Known Member
Ok to assist anyone looking for information on Super Commando's I've added the link to the thread that I started wanting information on them.
MP Super Commando Heads
As I'm in Australia W2s are rare to see or get. If I order a set from the US the cost is over the top. A complete top end would set me back $4500 AUD plus porting, so you can get a lot of work done on a set of Eddie's for that sort of money. Yes the Eddies will never be as good as the W2's for flow and performance.
Cheap Chinese alloy heads start at $1100 AUD, then you tip the head over the bin and replace everything with good quality parts.
So in Australia we are limited on head choice unless you want to spend the big dollars.
These Super Commando heads I got were cheap due to rocker cost and set me back the same amount as cheap Chinese heads, this will off set the cost of the rockers from Hughes.
I've drop the heads off to my engine shop to have them checked out and messure the off set for the rockers, I'll keep you informed of what that is.
Just looking at the Commando, Chinese and a set of Hughes ported Eddies there is quite a visual difference, so we are going to flow all of them for a comparison.
As said above no one should just bolt on a set of OOB heads without inspecting them, any performance work should include the inlet manifold and exhaust.
MP Super Commando Heads
As I'm in Australia W2s are rare to see or get. If I order a set from the US the cost is over the top. A complete top end would set me back $4500 AUD plus porting, so you can get a lot of work done on a set of Eddie's for that sort of money. Yes the Eddies will never be as good as the W2's for flow and performance.
Cheap Chinese alloy heads start at $1100 AUD, then you tip the head over the bin and replace everything with good quality parts.
So in Australia we are limited on head choice unless you want to spend the big dollars.
These Super Commando heads I got were cheap due to rocker cost and set me back the same amount as cheap Chinese heads, this will off set the cost of the rockers from Hughes.
I've drop the heads off to my engine shop to have them checked out and messure the off set for the rockers, I'll keep you informed of what that is.
Just looking at the Commando, Chinese and a set of Hughes ported Eddies there is quite a visual difference, so we are going to flow all of them for a comparison.
As said above no one should just bolt on a set of OOB heads without inspecting them, any performance work should include the inlet manifold and exhaust.
-
