rmchrgr
Skate And Destroy
No mas, Ke-mo sah-be.
The Great Pumpkin - '71 Duster
- Thread starter rmchrgr
- Start date
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No mas, Ke-mo sah-be.
rmchrgr
Skate And Destroy
Making a little bit of progress on this orange heap lately, have updates on a couple fronts.
First, the rear end housing and brake backing plates have been cleaned and painted. It was first painted 9 years ago (page 1, post #12) and did not hold up well. Besides brake fluid leaking all over it, the two main problems with the previous paint job were A) crummy paint and B) crummy paint that was thin. I used spray paint again but got some decent stuff this time. After it was stripped almost all the way down to bare metal again, I used epoxy primer/sealer instead of self-etching to seal it. For paint I went with 2-3 coats of SEM trim black as opposed to some random off-brand that was $5.99/can from the hardware store.
Though I hadn't planned on it, I ended up using the can of Rustoleum truck bed liner I had to try and help with durability. Now, this is not your typical thick, lumpy goop that dries like undercoating, it's a much smoother texture and has a satin sheen but it does hide a lot of imperfections. Not sure how durable it would be for an actual truck bed but it seems almost perfectly suited for a rear end housing. Obviously this is not a factory-style paint job but even so, you likely wouldn't even notice once it's under the car anyway.
Once the bed liner stuff was dry, I put on one more light coat of the trim black over it which smoothed the texture just a tad more. I like it. Hopefully it holds up. I may use it in the wheel wells of the body when I get to that point.
For reassembly, I sourced a complete new rear end gasket set, new housing end and third member studs with zinc-coated nylon lock nuts and new wheel cylinders, all from Dr. Diff. The gasket kit comes with new axle seals but I'm not sure I need them as the existing ones still look new.
From the multi-color spaghetti farm, the replacement fuse box I ordered last year from Waytek that had been on intergalactic backorder finally showed up. I'm glad I decided to replace the fuse box that was supplied with the AAW harness, it was a poor design that IMO had too many flaws to try and work with it. It's big, bulky and really difficult to modify to my liking.
Look at this thing! The bulkhead connector is on top and the fuse box snaps into the plastic stand-offs protruding from the fuse box itself. Imagine having to put this thing in place while trying to snake a girthy harness that has to make severe bends into the spot where where everything else lives behind the firewall. Can't imagine wrestling this thing into position with a heater box in place. And now try to imagine what a bunch of extra coiled up wires would be like - like I said, a poor design. But that's what you get when you buy a "universal" part designed around a '69 Camaro.
My other main issue with it is that in their inherent wisdom AAW crammed every A body electrical system produced between '67-'75 into one fuse box. (see that line above about being designed around a '69 Camaro) All the power feeds are ganged together so even if you wanted to de-pin it, you can't because it's all physically connected onto one long terminal strip.
Getting rid of the extra wiring requires removing the entire machine-crimped gang terminals and/or cutting the wires off of them at the base. And, because there are two distinct ignition switch styles between '67-'69-'70-up, you end up with a lot of unused wiring that again, you're supposed to coil up and just let hang. That goes against every fiber in my being. I had to cut a few wires in the end to get the rest of the harness loose but it doesn't matter since I'm ditching that fuse box.
After a bit of agonizing over re-engineering the AAW harness I spent all sorts of money on, I went ahead and ordered a different fuse box. The one I ordered is Bussmann 15713. It's a "triple bus" meaning it has separate provisions within the fuse box for battery, accessory and ignition-switched power which is the same as any other automotive fuse box. This particular one is very similar to the one that comes with the AAW B-body harness I have in my Coronet so I was familiar with it. It's a better layout all around.
Last, I sold the Sniper 4150 Stealth I was planning to use and went with a Holley Termninator X Stealth instead. The difference in price was a few hundred bucks. They are very similar systems but the main difference is the ECU is separate from the throttle body. Having the ECU inside the passenger compartment greatly reduces the chances of RFI, makes the wiring a little neater in the engine bay and is not subject to the same heat and vibration as the Sniper. All good stuff.
Going to try and get the underside painted today 4.16.22. have a lot of prep work to tackle before that can take place so going am going to end this here and get to work.
More to come.
First, the rear end housing and brake backing plates have been cleaned and painted. It was first painted 9 years ago (page 1, post #12) and did not hold up well. Besides brake fluid leaking all over it, the two main problems with the previous paint job were A) crummy paint and B) crummy paint that was thin. I used spray paint again but got some decent stuff this time. After it was stripped almost all the way down to bare metal again, I used epoxy primer/sealer instead of self-etching to seal it. For paint I went with 2-3 coats of SEM trim black as opposed to some random off-brand that was $5.99/can from the hardware store.
Though I hadn't planned on it, I ended up using the can of Rustoleum truck bed liner I had to try and help with durability. Now, this is not your typical thick, lumpy goop that dries like undercoating, it's a much smoother texture and has a satin sheen but it does hide a lot of imperfections. Not sure how durable it would be for an actual truck bed but it seems almost perfectly suited for a rear end housing. Obviously this is not a factory-style paint job but even so, you likely wouldn't even notice once it's under the car anyway.
Once the bed liner stuff was dry, I put on one more light coat of the trim black over it which smoothed the texture just a tad more. I like it. Hopefully it holds up. I may use it in the wheel wells of the body when I get to that point.
For reassembly, I sourced a complete new rear end gasket set, new housing end and third member studs with zinc-coated nylon lock nuts and new wheel cylinders, all from Dr. Diff. The gasket kit comes with new axle seals but I'm not sure I need them as the existing ones still look new.
From the multi-color spaghetti farm, the replacement fuse box I ordered last year from Waytek that had been on intergalactic backorder finally showed up. I'm glad I decided to replace the fuse box that was supplied with the AAW harness, it was a poor design that IMO had too many flaws to try and work with it. It's big, bulky and really difficult to modify to my liking.
Look at this thing! The bulkhead connector is on top and the fuse box snaps into the plastic stand-offs protruding from the fuse box itself. Imagine having to put this thing in place while trying to snake a girthy harness that has to make severe bends into the spot where where everything else lives behind the firewall. Can't imagine wrestling this thing into position with a heater box in place. And now try to imagine what a bunch of extra coiled up wires would be like - like I said, a poor design. But that's what you get when you buy a "universal" part designed around a '69 Camaro.
My other main issue with it is that in their inherent wisdom AAW crammed every A body electrical system produced between '67-'75 into one fuse box. (see that line above about being designed around a '69 Camaro) All the power feeds are ganged together so even if you wanted to de-pin it, you can't because it's all physically connected onto one long terminal strip.
Getting rid of the extra wiring requires removing the entire machine-crimped gang terminals and/or cutting the wires off of them at the base. And, because there are two distinct ignition switch styles between '67-'69-'70-up, you end up with a lot of unused wiring that again, you're supposed to coil up and just let hang. That goes against every fiber in my being. I had to cut a few wires in the end to get the rest of the harness loose but it doesn't matter since I'm ditching that fuse box.
After a bit of agonizing over re-engineering the AAW harness I spent all sorts of money on, I went ahead and ordered a different fuse box. The one I ordered is Bussmann 15713. It's a "triple bus" meaning it has separate provisions within the fuse box for battery, accessory and ignition-switched power which is the same as any other automotive fuse box. This particular one is very similar to the one that comes with the AAW B-body harness I have in my Coronet so I was familiar with it. It's a better layout all around.
Last, I sold the Sniper 4150 Stealth I was planning to use and went with a Holley Termninator X Stealth instead. The difference in price was a few hundred bucks. They are very similar systems but the main difference is the ECU is separate from the throttle body. Having the ECU inside the passenger compartment greatly reduces the chances of RFI, makes the wiring a little neater in the engine bay and is not subject to the same heat and vibration as the Sniper. All good stuff.
Going to try and get the underside painted today 4.16.22. have a lot of prep work to tackle before that can take place so going am going to end this here and get to work.
More to come.
rmchrgr
Skate And Destroy
Naturally it took a little longer than expected but I got the underside painted. Came out pretty good if I don't say so myself. This is a huge relief to get this part over with and a big step forward in the reassembly of the car. I am really happy that the chassis is clean and sealed.
Suppose I could have kept trying to get rid of all the little surface rust spots but I've been working on it or months and literally could not do it anymore. Frankly, there was already surface rust under the old paint and it had been there for decades so the decision was made to paint over the little areas that were left and move on. Plus, the car will probably never see rain so I'm not worried about it becoming an issue any time soon. Time to move on.
In retrospect I should have had the underside blasted but for whatever reason, I just didn't feel like dealing with it at the time. I paid for that decision by spending 4 months doing it myself and ultimately not getting the entire thing as clean as I would have liked. I busted my *** trying to get it spotless but ultimately I could only do so much.
As far as doing the paint job itself, I'd never used a "real" paint gun. Always wanted to try my hand at painting stuff and this was a good place to start. Luckily, a friend of mine is a top-notch body and paint man and he loaned me his primer gun for the job and guided me through the process. (Thanks Ricky!) I used PPG DP50LF with DP402LF catalyst and some reducer. Nice to have decent tools and materials to work with, makes a rookie like me look like a pro.
Took a little time to get used to using the gun and how to get the correct spray pattern. At first, I had way too much paint in the cup and it was spilling out all over me. Eventually I realized I should probably dump some paint out. Honestly though, it's not that easy to paint a car on a lift. Next time I'll have a rotisserie.
I eventually got the spray pattern right by randomly turning the knobs on the gun until I was happy with it. Honestly, I had no idea what the heck I was doing. Regardless, once I got it to where it looked OK, it was just fill the cup and spray away.
So yeah, big accomplishment by getting this part done. What's left is to prime the front wheel openings, engine bay and trunk but those areas should be a little easier now that I have the chassis under my belt. Then it's single stage, 1971 Tor-Red/Hemi orange paint on those surfaces. Last step in the paint project will be some sort of lighter protective coating for the rear wheel wells.
The other main reason I pushed to get this job done was because I am having hip replacement surgery tomorrow (4.20.22) so I won't be able to do anything for at least a few weeks. Feels good to have this done beforehand.
Not as dirty as the undercoating removal but still need to scrub up.
More to come.
Suppose I could have kept trying to get rid of all the little surface rust spots but I've been working on it or months and literally could not do it anymore. Frankly, there was already surface rust under the old paint and it had been there for decades so the decision was made to paint over the little areas that were left and move on. Plus, the car will probably never see rain so I'm not worried about it becoming an issue any time soon. Time to move on.
In retrospect I should have had the underside blasted but for whatever reason, I just didn't feel like dealing with it at the time. I paid for that decision by spending 4 months doing it myself and ultimately not getting the entire thing as clean as I would have liked. I busted my *** trying to get it spotless but ultimately I could only do so much.
As far as doing the paint job itself, I'd never used a "real" paint gun. Always wanted to try my hand at painting stuff and this was a good place to start. Luckily, a friend of mine is a top-notch body and paint man and he loaned me his primer gun for the job and guided me through the process. (Thanks Ricky!) I used PPG DP50LF with DP402LF catalyst and some reducer. Nice to have decent tools and materials to work with, makes a rookie like me look like a pro.
Took a little time to get used to using the gun and how to get the correct spray pattern. At first, I had way too much paint in the cup and it was spilling out all over me. Eventually I realized I should probably dump some paint out. Honestly though, it's not that easy to paint a car on a lift. Next time I'll have a rotisserie.
I eventually got the spray pattern right by randomly turning the knobs on the gun until I was happy with it. Honestly, I had no idea what the heck I was doing. Regardless, once I got it to where it looked OK, it was just fill the cup and spray away.
So yeah, big accomplishment by getting this part done. What's left is to prime the front wheel openings, engine bay and trunk but those areas should be a little easier now that I have the chassis under my belt. Then it's single stage, 1971 Tor-Red/Hemi orange paint on those surfaces. Last step in the paint project will be some sort of lighter protective coating for the rear wheel wells.
The other main reason I pushed to get this job done was because I am having hip replacement surgery tomorrow (4.20.22) so I won't be able to do anything for at least a few weeks. Feels good to have this done beforehand.
Not as dirty as the undercoating removal but still need to scrub up.
More to come.
Ironracer
Gearhead
Brother, You ARE kicking Butt!
Looks killer! Keep it up! MOPAR 4 LIFE!
Looks killer! Keep it up! MOPAR 4 LIFE!
rmchrgr
Skate And Destroy
Thanks man!
mopowers
Well-Known Member
Very nice! That's not a very glamorous task, but you're kicking it's ***. Good for you man. Thanks for posting the progress photos.
stroked340
Well-Known Member
Looking good!!!
rmchrgr
Skate And Destroy
I usually prefer to stick to the mechanical side and leave the decor to the “art” types if you know what I’m sayin’.
rmchrgr
Skate And Destroy
Primed the trunk today. This was a mostly redundant exercise because there was a lot of original paint left but I did have to grind down some areas that had surface rust so it was all uneven. I figured it was best to start with a uniform bottom layer before spraying the color. Besides, the epoxy will also seal the bare areas. The ground-down areas will get high-build primer to fill them in.
Also took some time to polish one of my no-name Mickey Thompson valve covers. These things were pretty crusty and required a lot of elbow grease to get them to this point. This was all wet sanding starting with 600 grit up to 2000 grit, then metal polish and some time on the buffing wheel. Can still see some sanding marks and they're nowhere near perfect but at least they're presentable. I guess that's patina?
Not too bad.
More to come.
Also took some time to polish one of my no-name Mickey Thompson valve covers. These things were pretty crusty and required a lot of elbow grease to get them to this point. This was all wet sanding starting with 600 grit up to 2000 grit, then metal polish and some time on the buffing wheel. Can still see some sanding marks and they're nowhere near perfect but at least they're presentable. I guess that's patina?
Not too bad.
More to come.
mopowers
Well-Known Member
Wow! Great job on both projects! Those valve covers came out amazing. What primer did you use in the trunk?
*Edit - sorry for the stupid question. I'm assuming it's the same epoxy primer as in post #313. It's hard to keep all of these awesome builds straight.
*Edit - sorry for the stupid question. I'm assuming it's the same epoxy primer as in post #313. It's hard to keep all of these awesome builds straight.
rmchrgr
Skate And Destroy
Thanks.
And yes, same primer as before, PPG DP50LF with some reducer in it.
Got the orange paint the other day and when I was at the store the counter guy said I should use a gun with a smaller tip like a 1.2-1.3 for the paint. The primer gun I have now is 1.7 which they said was too big. Starting to run low on the DP primer activator stuff and will likely have to go get more to do the engine bay. Since I have to go back anyway, I may get a cheap gun for the paint.
Feels like I'm sort of getting the hang of this stuff. I'm not a painter by any stretch but in a pinch...
As I'm sure everyone has read umpteen times, successful paint is all in the prep. I have been making sure everything is wiped down 2-3 times with a damp rag until it's clean then with wax and grease remover solvent and finally blown dry with air. I have a water separator in the air line and filter on the gun itself. Seems to be spraying out evenly.
And yes, same primer as before, PPG DP50LF with some reducer in it.
Got the orange paint the other day and when I was at the store the counter guy said I should use a gun with a smaller tip like a 1.2-1.3 for the paint. The primer gun I have now is 1.7 which they said was too big. Starting to run low on the DP primer activator stuff and will likely have to go get more to do the engine bay. Since I have to go back anyway, I may get a cheap gun for the paint.
Feels like I'm sort of getting the hang of this stuff. I'm not a painter by any stretch but in a pinch...
As I'm sure everyone has read umpteen times, successful paint is all in the prep. I have been making sure everything is wiped down 2-3 times with a damp rag until it's clean then with wax and grease remover solvent and finally blown dry with air. I have a water separator in the air line and filter on the gun itself. Seems to be spraying out evenly.
rmchrgr
Skate And Destroy
Orange is the new Orange.
Took the column and master cylinder out to paint the engine bay which is next. Truth be told, I've never had the car this far apart. Every single component except for the dash frame is out of it.
Have to finish prepping and priming the engine bay, still lots of cleanup to do. I'm really trying to get through this painting adventure, don't want to be wasting too much time on it. It's worth the effort though, it will be nice to have nice clean and freshly painted surfaces.
More to come.
Took the column and master cylinder out to paint the engine bay which is next. Truth be told, I've never had the car this far apart. Every single component except for the dash frame is out of it.
Have to finish prepping and priming the engine bay, still lots of cleanup to do. I'm really trying to get through this painting adventure, don't want to be wasting too much time on it. It's worth the effort though, it will be nice to have nice clean and freshly painted surfaces.
More to come.
rmchrgr
Skate And Destroy
Trunk is done. Truth be told, I was not totally happy with the first coat from yesterday so this afternoon I wet sanded with 1,200 then 2,000 grit and re-sprayed. It was the right thing to do, coverage was much better this time and the color is truer. It's likely hard to tell but it's definitely more red-orange like it's supposed to be rather than straight orange. A lot less orange peel this time too.
The paint data sheet said to have the air pressure between 40-70 psi for this particular paint which I thought was rather high but OK, I did as advised. I chose 50 psi but that was way too high. Dialed it down to 30 and it was much better. Adjusted the spray pattern too and the paint laid down much nicer this time. Maybe I'm actually learning stuff!
Not sure if I'm going to wet sand this coat since that ultimately involves buffing. I don't have a buffing wheel or compound so that's another trip to the store and another expense. Not sure I need to do it in the trunk anyway.
More to come.
The paint data sheet said to have the air pressure between 40-70 psi for this particular paint which I thought was rather high but OK, I did as advised. I chose 50 psi but that was way too high. Dialed it down to 30 and it was much better. Adjusted the spray pattern too and the paint laid down much nicer this time. Maybe I'm actually learning stuff!
Not sure if I'm going to wet sand this coat since that ultimately involves buffing. I don't have a buffing wheel or compound so that's another trip to the store and another expense. Not sure I need to do it in the trunk anyway.
More to come.
stroked340
Well-Known Member
That looks great just the way it is
rmchrgr
Skate And Destroy
That looks great just the way it is
Thanks Dave. I agree.
rmchrgr
Skate And Destroy
Been feeling motivated lately and am moving forward at a decent clip.
After cleaning and re-paint, the rear end is all buttoned up and ready to go in. Fairly happy with the way it turned out. Got all new housing end and center section studs and gaskets from Dr. Diff and new brake lines that theoretically should not leak. Was on the fence about re-installing the parking brake parts but decided to go ahead with it.
After sitting in my storage loft collecting dust for the last several years, I finally got my fiberglass hood down and started to mock it up. There are already provisions for pins in the front on the radiator support which only needed to be drilled out but the rears took some planning. I studied old Pro Stocks to figure out the placement and wound up about 5 1/2" in from the sides and around 2" forward of the cowl. I may add a few more pins.
This is just the hood sitting on the bumpers, no pins yet.
The big step this time was getting the engine by prepped and primed for paint. This took a lot of doing and felt endless. There was a lot of oxidation, extra holes and staining to deal with. I hope that I did a decent enough prep job and the paint lays down OK. As with the underside, it would have been preferable to sandblast the surfaces but that didn't happen so all the cleanup was painstakingly done by hand. My wrist is sore from wielding the grinder for several hours. There will be some filler in a few spots but nothing major.
Over the years there were a lot of extra holes made for various things. It would have bothered me to leave all of them so I welded them up save for a larger one the P.O. made just under the cowl for a fuel pressure gauge. Even with the welder settings on low, this was not an easy task because it's easy to burn through the metal and end up with a mound of weld to fill it. That's why I spent so much time with the grinder. Plus all my flap wheels are dull...
This was what I was dealing with. It will be really nice to have clean surfaces. Note hole for the fuel pressure gauge line on the left diagonal seam above the heater hose outlets.
Primer'd. I did not use any reducer in the primer this time so there is no sheen to it. I'll probably shoot another coat with reducer before paint since there will need to be some filler or at least high-build primer in a few spots.
Last - the tail lights were reinstalled with new gaskets. The weather stripping needs to be glued on which I'm not really looking forward to but it's gotta be done.
More to come.
After cleaning and re-paint, the rear end is all buttoned up and ready to go in. Fairly happy with the way it turned out. Got all new housing end and center section studs and gaskets from Dr. Diff and new brake lines that theoretically should not leak. Was on the fence about re-installing the parking brake parts but decided to go ahead with it.
After sitting in my storage loft collecting dust for the last several years, I finally got my fiberglass hood down and started to mock it up. There are already provisions for pins in the front on the radiator support which only needed to be drilled out but the rears took some planning. I studied old Pro Stocks to figure out the placement and wound up about 5 1/2" in from the sides and around 2" forward of the cowl. I may add a few more pins.
This is just the hood sitting on the bumpers, no pins yet.
The big step this time was getting the engine by prepped and primed for paint. This took a lot of doing and felt endless. There was a lot of oxidation, extra holes and staining to deal with. I hope that I did a decent enough prep job and the paint lays down OK. As with the underside, it would have been preferable to sandblast the surfaces but that didn't happen so all the cleanup was painstakingly done by hand. My wrist is sore from wielding the grinder for several hours. There will be some filler in a few spots but nothing major.
Over the years there were a lot of extra holes made for various things. It would have bothered me to leave all of them so I welded them up save for a larger one the P.O. made just under the cowl for a fuel pressure gauge. Even with the welder settings on low, this was not an easy task because it's easy to burn through the metal and end up with a mound of weld to fill it. That's why I spent so much time with the grinder. Plus all my flap wheels are dull...
This was what I was dealing with. It will be really nice to have clean surfaces. Note hole for the fuel pressure gauge line on the left diagonal seam above the heater hose outlets.
Primer'd. I did not use any reducer in the primer this time so there is no sheen to it. I'll probably shoot another coat with reducer before paint since there will need to be some filler or at least high-build primer in a few spots.
Last - the tail lights were reinstalled with new gaskets. The weather stripping needs to be glued on which I'm not really looking forward to but it's gotta be done.
More to come.
nice job, looking real good.. what primer did you use in the engine compartment and what kind of paint are you useing in the trunk and the engine compartment, single stage or base/clear... thanks for sharing .. Rich
rmchrgr
Skate And Destroy
Thanks.
See post #313 for a pic of the primer materials but it's PPG DP50LF. The Tor-Red paint is a single stage urethane mixed at Kemperle in Port Chester, NY.
Thanks , after i posted that i started reading backwards and saw your bodyshop supplies, im in the process of turning a 73 6 cyl into a 71 340 with all the good stuff, i spent last week scraping undercoat useing the same process as you, started to put it on my rotisserie so i can bring it to the blaster to clean the underside and engine bay and then its getting epoxied, 2k high build and then sealed and painted, im thinking about bahama yellow also, i always loved that color, its gonna be a daily fun driving car on a budget. im adding some upgraded suspension and disc brakes, buckets and a console, im not a painter or bodyman but im giving it my best effort, my dirty face was much worse that yours..hehhe.. thanks for sharing your build..Rich
the trunk weather stripping is cake. From a rookie (me).... 3M adhesive. Start center top and work out to both upper corners ...then down each side....then across the bottom and meet in the center at the bottom....final cut at the middle leaving the last couple of inches on each side for final application of adhesive.
lookin' good!
lookin' good!
I had my single stage “Butterscotch” / “Bahama Yellow” mixed by Kempler as well.
EZ-PZ, nice and easy.
EZ-PZ, nice and easy.
rmchrgr
Skate And Destroy
I don't know about cake Denny! Let's just say I got through it. Took your advice and started at the center top which seemed to work OK. The most frustrating part was where the two sides meet in the middle. The joint is not a show car job. I just hope it does not start to separate or anything. Guess we'll see in a few years.
One thing I'd like to point out is working with the weatherstrip adhesive sucks. At first, I followed the directions on the package and tried to get the material on both the metal and rubber but that turned out to be too difficult because it tacks up really fast and wont spread. If you try to spread the glue in the opposite direction it will pull off. It also tends to drip which creates long, wispy strands that invariably wind up where you don't want it. You basically have one chance to kind of paint it on. I found the best way to get it on consistently was to use a cheap 1/2" detail paint brush. Still made a mess but I was able to contain it a little better.
Here's the first side done.
Complete.
Tools of the trade. After the first half, I cut the bottom of the brush bristles because it hardened up.
Not sure how I'm going to get this excess residue off, probably Goo Gone on a Q-Tip or something like that.
More to come.
Oh! Nice job!
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