The Great Pumpkin - '71 Duster
- Thread starter rmchrgr
- Start date
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Wow looks amazing. I have done the same drilling or taking out material I should not have. I have to slow down is my deal I'm 100 miles an hour all the time and A.D.D. and OCD ROFL. I now measure 10 times I stop write it down even make a drawing template of my work then it's much better. I also started doing list it's the nature of having so much in our heads I think. Someday I will figure at 53 by 60 I will have it all figured hahaha. Great build enjoying the progress.
I hear your pain on the runs. Try a shop mixing the color wrong. All I can say on spraying is this practice and more practice learn with the smaller stuff. Mixing charts are your friend. Prep is the biggest key to a nice finish. Just prior to shoot check all your stuff water evaporator all that crap. Lol don't flip your arm walk with the gun hard on your butt or back butt make the gun move likes it's on a rail. Worked in body shop as kid and school for it. Painters showed me some great tips. My issue is I don't slow down as I have a life this is not my job and time is a factor. If I had to do again the metallic would be gone. Love the color will be an amazing car!
rmchrgr
Skate And Destroy
It's Nason 2K urethane but the clear is Spies Hecker which was what they had at the paint supply store. The clear and urethane are compatible as long as you mix them 1:1. You have to mix both components correctly first though. The paint is 8:1:2 and the clear is 3:1:20%. Once they're mixed individually then you combine them. I went by ounces which was easiest - 9 ounces of paint mixed with 9 ounces of clear.
rmchrgr
Skate And Destroy
Got the rear wheel wells done today. Pretty much all that's left now paint-wise is to spray Raptor Liner in the front wheel wells. Like I've been saying, I'm pretty much done with this whole paint revival process and am itching to get back to the mechanical side of things. It was a great feeling to peel off the masking tape and plastic. I think mimicking the factory "gray dip" sealer and color over spray pattern was the way to go, just looks right to me.
The bed liner in the wheel wells turned out decent enough. Frankly, it was hard to do upside-down while trying to protect myself from the overspray. It covered fine but the surfaces were pretty rough from years of road debris and removing the original undercoating - every little gouge and scratch showed through. I had planned to re-coat these areas with some sort of undercoating or bed liner material so I didn't bother filling and smoothing them. It's done now though and I'm not re-doing it. No one will really see it with the wheels on anyway. I'm more happy about having a protective covering that doesn't weigh 40 lbs.
Raptor Liner seems pretty easy to use. The material is mixed 3:1 with the hardener then can be reduced about 10-15%. When using the schutz gun, the hardener is measured to the correct ratio with a provided cup, gets dumped into the bottle and mixed. The schutz gun screws to the top of the bottle then you attach it to your air supply and spray away. I was unsure whether I could reduce the mixture in the bottle which is one of the things that swayed me into using the regular paint gun.
Also, even though everything was masked off, it seemed like the schutz gun would have sprayed **** everywhere so that was another factor that went into the decision to use the primer gun instead.
When using the primer gun, the material is poured out into a mixing cup and measured that way. Seemed to work fine.
The air pressure to the gun was also increased to about 50psi as recommended on the box. Along with the added reducer, I believe this helps the texture come out smoother. I actually prefer this look over the normal "chunky" bed liner. Yeah, some of the areas are a little shiner because there was un-scuffed paint underneath instead of sanded primer. Again - don't care, just putting it out there for anyone else that may want to use this stuff.
The texture is good here but as mentioned, the gouges and scratches in the surface are totally visible. If I had taken the time to fill them in, it would obviously be smooth.
I like the way the black juxtaposes the orange. The black is definitely necessary. I've seen Mopars without it, looks horrible.
Removing the stick-on belt line trim (and left over adhesive), buffing and polishing the original exterior paint and putting on some side stripes can wait until the car is reassembled.
More to come.
The bed liner in the wheel wells turned out decent enough. Frankly, it was hard to do upside-down while trying to protect myself from the overspray. It covered fine but the surfaces were pretty rough from years of road debris and removing the original undercoating - every little gouge and scratch showed through. I had planned to re-coat these areas with some sort of undercoating or bed liner material so I didn't bother filling and smoothing them. It's done now though and I'm not re-doing it. No one will really see it with the wheels on anyway. I'm more happy about having a protective covering that doesn't weigh 40 lbs.
Raptor Liner seems pretty easy to use. The material is mixed 3:1 with the hardener then can be reduced about 10-15%. When using the schutz gun, the hardener is measured to the correct ratio with a provided cup, gets dumped into the bottle and mixed. The schutz gun screws to the top of the bottle then you attach it to your air supply and spray away. I was unsure whether I could reduce the mixture in the bottle which is one of the things that swayed me into using the regular paint gun.
Also, even though everything was masked off, it seemed like the schutz gun would have sprayed **** everywhere so that was another factor that went into the decision to use the primer gun instead.
When using the primer gun, the material is poured out into a mixing cup and measured that way. Seemed to work fine.
The air pressure to the gun was also increased to about 50psi as recommended on the box. Along with the added reducer, I believe this helps the texture come out smoother. I actually prefer this look over the normal "chunky" bed liner. Yeah, some of the areas are a little shiner because there was un-scuffed paint underneath instead of sanded primer. Again - don't care, just putting it out there for anyone else that may want to use this stuff.
The texture is good here but as mentioned, the gouges and scratches in the surface are totally visible. If I had taken the time to fill them in, it would obviously be smooth.
I like the way the black juxtaposes the orange. The black is definitely necessary. I've seen Mopars without it, looks horrible.
Removing the stick-on belt line trim (and left over adhesive), buffing and polishing the original exterior paint and putting on some side stripes can wait until the car is reassembled.
More to come.
I - uh, I-a, “juxtaposes”, WOW! LMAO!
Most excellent!
Most excellent!
rmchrgr
Skate And Destroy
I - uh, I-a, “juxtaposes”, WOW! LMAO!
Most excellent!
I was an English Major!
rmchrgr
Skate And Destroy
Thank you for reading my drivel!
rmchrgr
Skate And Destroy
You Sir, knoweth of what ye say.
rmchrgr
Skate And Destroy
Got the front wheel wells coated with the Raptor Liner yesterday. In all honesty, I almost felt kind of dumb about doing it because the nice new paint got covered up but that is essentially the way the factory did it. The coating was put on relatively thin so there's little in the way of added weight. In fact, it's thin enough that it did not even cover the paint drips. If I wasn't concerned about adding the weight back I'd have used the schutz gun to make the Raptor Liner thicker or even would have used regular undercoating. It remains to be seen how well the thined-out liner will protect the surfaces from road debris. This car won't be driven 25K miles a year in bad weather on gravelly dirt roads so I'm not too concerned about it. I'm just happy it's clean.
I've read that when the wheel wells were done on the assembly line, the workers had a template they'd hold over the control arm mount areas to keep the undercoating off of those surfaces so that's how I did it. A cardboard template was cut out to mimic the contours in the sheet metal and the material was shot behind it giving the feathered look. If you tape/mask off the area then you'd get a hard line which to me would not look right. No, it's obviously not a "factory correct" replication but you get the idea.
To prevent over spray onto the nice new engine bay paint, I taped over all the visible openings on the inner fenders. Naturally I missed two places when I failed to cover the exposed hood hinge opening so a little over spray got on the areas where the cowl meets the fender. There was also an opening between the sheet metal pieces at the back of the left side inner fender where it meets the firewall that some over spray got through. I'm hoping since just a little bit got on these areas they can be buffed clean.
Driver's side.
Passenger side.
In any event, that pretty much wraps up the paint project. I started this whole endeavor back in January of this year (2022). The hope was to have it done by summer and potentially be driving the car by now but clearly that was out the window a few months ago. In between January and now a lot of life stuff happened so I wasn't able to dedicate as much time to it as I would have wanted but that's the way it goes.
Hard to say exactly how long it took because there were long stretches of time where nothing got done. The takeaway form all this is that painting a car "the right way" is really labor intensive and just takes a long time to do. I also tend to get caught up in perfectionism which never fails to add extra time to whatever it is I'm doing.
The whole job was done the hard way by stripping everything by hand and then having to go back and redo a lot of it after being dissatisfied with the initial result. Cleaning the surfaces of the old paint and undercoating was really tedious and difficult to get 100% spotless by hand. Trying not to mar the original exterior paint added complexity and time to the job because care had to be taken to protect it from whatever was being done underneath and in the engine bay. I've said it a few times already but next time I decide to paint a car it's getting media blasted spotless and then put on a rotisserie. I also do not recommend doing this type of work under a car that's on a lift, it's absolutely the wrong way to go about it. Overall though, the goal of having everything clean and fresh was achieved so mission accomplished.
I didn't take any pictures but I did start putting some parts back on like body plugs, hood bumpers etc. It's nice to get these little bits and pieces off the shelf and out of the way. Right now I'm trying to come up with a plan for reassembly. It's probably wisest to get the wiring in place first since that's generally underneath most of the other systems. However, I'm sure some things will need to be in place to determine wire length and placement so it may be hard to stick to one definitive method. I'll probably just figure it out as I go like always.
More to come.
I've read that when the wheel wells were done on the assembly line, the workers had a template they'd hold over the control arm mount areas to keep the undercoating off of those surfaces so that's how I did it. A cardboard template was cut out to mimic the contours in the sheet metal and the material was shot behind it giving the feathered look. If you tape/mask off the area then you'd get a hard line which to me would not look right. No, it's obviously not a "factory correct" replication but you get the idea.
To prevent over spray onto the nice new engine bay paint, I taped over all the visible openings on the inner fenders. Naturally I missed two places when I failed to cover the exposed hood hinge opening so a little over spray got on the areas where the cowl meets the fender. There was also an opening between the sheet metal pieces at the back of the left side inner fender where it meets the firewall that some over spray got through. I'm hoping since just a little bit got on these areas they can be buffed clean.
Driver's side.
Passenger side.
In any event, that pretty much wraps up the paint project. I started this whole endeavor back in January of this year (2022). The hope was to have it done by summer and potentially be driving the car by now but clearly that was out the window a few months ago. In between January and now a lot of life stuff happened so I wasn't able to dedicate as much time to it as I would have wanted but that's the way it goes.
Hard to say exactly how long it took because there were long stretches of time where nothing got done. The takeaway form all this is that painting a car "the right way" is really labor intensive and just takes a long time to do. I also tend to get caught up in perfectionism which never fails to add extra time to whatever it is I'm doing.
The whole job was done the hard way by stripping everything by hand and then having to go back and redo a lot of it after being dissatisfied with the initial result. Cleaning the surfaces of the old paint and undercoating was really tedious and difficult to get 100% spotless by hand. Trying not to mar the original exterior paint added complexity and time to the job because care had to be taken to protect it from whatever was being done underneath and in the engine bay. I've said it a few times already but next time I decide to paint a car it's getting media blasted spotless and then put on a rotisserie. I also do not recommend doing this type of work under a car that's on a lift, it's absolutely the wrong way to go about it. Overall though, the goal of having everything clean and fresh was achieved so mission accomplished.
I didn't take any pictures but I did start putting some parts back on like body plugs, hood bumpers etc. It's nice to get these little bits and pieces off the shelf and out of the way. Right now I'm trying to come up with a plan for reassembly. It's probably wisest to get the wiring in place first since that's generally underneath most of the other systems. However, I'm sure some things will need to be in place to determine wire length and placement so it may be hard to stick to one definitive method. I'll probably just figure it out as I go like always.
More to come.
rmchrgr
Skate And Destroy
Reassembly continues. I really should be working on the wiring but my initial plan to start with that went out the window. Number one, wiring is tedious. Number two, I totally forgot about it because all these big, long and heavy suspension parts have been sitting on a bench and on the floor for over a year and I got tired of them being in my way. I'm not going to install all of it now because some things may or may not need to be changed/adjusted etc. but it's good to get some of the bigger items out of the work area and make a little progress at the same time.
So unfortunately, I didn't realize before the car was painted that the fancy QA1 upper control arms require extra clearance to allow full travel. There is a gusset on the inside of the control arm mount that needs to be ground down about 1/4" for the front inside tube to clear. Not a huge deal and par for the course with aftermarket stuff but again, I wish I had bothered to read the info sheet ahead of time instead of having to grind newly painted surfaces.
Below is the area that gets trimmed. Only thing I can think of as to why this wasn't figured out when these arms were developed is that they didn't want to narrow or bend the tubing at that point because it would probably weaken it. I don't know really but whatever the thinking was, the gusset needs to be trimmed for them to fit and work properly.
Here you can see where the gusset hits the inside of the arm before trimming. I was thrilled about chipping my nice, new powder coated parts.
From what I could tell, the rearward mount area needs some trimming as well. The pointer shows where the bottom of the arm makes contact with this outer box structure. QA1 does not mention having to massage this spot in their info sheet but it was pretty clear that it needs to happen since mocking up the arm resulted in it chipping there as well.
After two minutes with the grinder, no more interference and full travel is achieved. I will probably grind a little more away just to be safe.
Didn't need much here, just the tip of this area.
Got the clearance, Clarence. Bumpers are shorter than stock for more front end travel. These are Energy Suspension universal ones with .687" height.
What's also a little curious is that QA1 mentions needing to deal with this situation on the passenger side only. As far as I can tell though, the driver's side needs the same treatment. If I hadn't taken the info sheet at face value, I would not have chipped the other arm. Maybe I'll write them a letter.
Rear spot. Not sure why the painted surfaces look so lumpy here because they're not as exaggerated as they appear. Just the reflection of the camera flash I guess.
Also started to hang some rear stuff. Again, this was mostly to get parts off the ground. Installing the rear could affect the balance of the car on the lift since there is nothing currently installed in front. OTOH, having it in will aid placement of other things so I will just have to be careful and use pole jacks for support. It's all going to get loosened again to check/adjust pinion angle and/or whether I want to use the top hole in the spring hanger.
Yes, Caltracs and Dr. Diff offset spring kit. Cass makes primo parts, so much betterer than the old Mopar pig iron ones. I got some new pivot plates and stiffener tubes for the traction bars since the old ones were starting to rust because you guessed it, the powder coating chipped. Shiny parts is good but the new powder coating makes it difficult to install the old, oxidized preload bars through their intended holes and they chip before they're even on the car. Grrrrr...
Chipping away at this a little at a time (pun intended) but surprisingly, this project does not feel totally overwhelming. Just putting the little bits and pieces on seems to help build momentum and confidence.
More to come.
So unfortunately, I didn't realize before the car was painted that the fancy QA1 upper control arms require extra clearance to allow full travel. There is a gusset on the inside of the control arm mount that needs to be ground down about 1/4" for the front inside tube to clear. Not a huge deal and par for the course with aftermarket stuff but again, I wish I had bothered to read the info sheet ahead of time instead of having to grind newly painted surfaces.
Below is the area that gets trimmed. Only thing I can think of as to why this wasn't figured out when these arms were developed is that they didn't want to narrow or bend the tubing at that point because it would probably weaken it. I don't know really but whatever the thinking was, the gusset needs to be trimmed for them to fit and work properly.
Here you can see where the gusset hits the inside of the arm before trimming. I was thrilled about chipping my nice, new powder coated parts.
From what I could tell, the rearward mount area needs some trimming as well. The pointer shows where the bottom of the arm makes contact with this outer box structure. QA1 does not mention having to massage this spot in their info sheet but it was pretty clear that it needs to happen since mocking up the arm resulted in it chipping there as well.
After two minutes with the grinder, no more interference and full travel is achieved. I will probably grind a little more away just to be safe.
Didn't need much here, just the tip of this area.
Got the clearance, Clarence. Bumpers are shorter than stock for more front end travel. These are Energy Suspension universal ones with .687" height.
What's also a little curious is that QA1 mentions needing to deal with this situation on the passenger side only. As far as I can tell though, the driver's side needs the same treatment. If I hadn't taken the info sheet at face value, I would not have chipped the other arm. Maybe I'll write them a letter.
Rear spot. Not sure why the painted surfaces look so lumpy here because they're not as exaggerated as they appear. Just the reflection of the camera flash I guess.
Also started to hang some rear stuff. Again, this was mostly to get parts off the ground. Installing the rear could affect the balance of the car on the lift since there is nothing currently installed in front. OTOH, having it in will aid placement of other things so I will just have to be careful and use pole jacks for support. It's all going to get loosened again to check/adjust pinion angle and/or whether I want to use the top hole in the spring hanger.
Yes, Caltracs and Dr. Diff offset spring kit. Cass makes primo parts, so much betterer than the old Mopar pig iron ones. I got some new pivot plates and stiffener tubes for the traction bars since the old ones were starting to rust because you guessed it, the powder coating chipped. Shiny parts is good but the new powder coating makes it difficult to install the old, oxidized preload bars through their intended holes and they chip before they're even on the car. Grrrrr...
Chipping away at this a little at a time (pun intended) but surprisingly, this project does not feel totally overwhelming. Just putting the little bits and pieces on seems to help build momentum and confidence.
More to come.
rmchrgr
Skate And Destroy
Alright, got the rear end in place. Again, nothing is torqued yet since I am anticipating having to make adjustments when the full weight of the car is on the ground. The parts are off the floor though which makes me happy.
The engine/trans dolly I made way back in post #303 came in handy for this job. I really didn't have to do anything to it to accommodate the rear end save for getting an extra pair of spring perches off the shelf and bolting them on to the stanchions to hold the housing in place. Didn't have to weld or drill any holes, nothing. I love it when a plan comes together!
The whole install is pretty straightforward with the right equipment. When I took the thing out I had used my transmission jack to lower it down. Things got pretty sqirrely for a few seconds because it was totally unstable. Having recounted last year's near-death-by-falling-rear-end-experience, I considered building a jig that would bolt to the trans. jack plate but the more I thought about it, the less I wanted to get involved with it. Then the extra spring perch idea hit me and that was all I needed. Easy Peasy.
Also wanted to mention something I absorbed from a chassis guy a long time ago. Back in the mid-90's I took a rear end to a small, racer welding shop to get some new spring perches put on a rear housing. When I picked up the housing the guy gave me two bushings. He said they slide into the perch holes and over the outside of the spring bolt heads. This helps locate the perches over the springs properly so they don't move around. The holes in the middle of leaf spring perches tend to be larger than the bolts that hold the springs together.
Unfortunately I didn't have the bushings like that around anymore so I made some. I found a rusty piece of tubing that probably strated life as an alternator spacer or something. (I have 8 million of them so I figured I could sacrifice one for the job) Plus it's good, old factory steel, not off-shore junk tubing. I set it in my drill press and reamed it to size which did not take much. I cut it down so the pieces were about 3/8" tall. (I need a lathe for things like this - one day) I made them a bit taller in case I need to add pinion shims. Seems to fit OK.
Here's the reamed-out tubing being fit over the leaf sprint bolt and before it was cut down.
I.D. is now 1/2"
Here is the bushing inside the spring perch but the U-bolts are not tight yet.
U-bolts tight now.
Ironically, part of me thinks this exercise may not have been worth the 10 minutes it took to make the bushings. I just wonder if there needs to be a little space around the spring bolt to allow lateral movement and/or prevent binding. Theoretically it seems like a good thing to help keep things square but I'm not 100% sure that it is. Either way, it's a little detail that most people wouldn't even think about and I like them so they're staying.
More to come.
The engine/trans dolly I made way back in post #303 came in handy for this job. I really didn't have to do anything to it to accommodate the rear end save for getting an extra pair of spring perches off the shelf and bolting them on to the stanchions to hold the housing in place. Didn't have to weld or drill any holes, nothing. I love it when a plan comes together!
The whole install is pretty straightforward with the right equipment. When I took the thing out I had used my transmission jack to lower it down. Things got pretty sqirrely for a few seconds because it was totally unstable. Having recounted last year's near-death-by-falling-rear-end-experience, I considered building a jig that would bolt to the trans. jack plate but the more I thought about it, the less I wanted to get involved with it. Then the extra spring perch idea hit me and that was all I needed. Easy Peasy.
Also wanted to mention something I absorbed from a chassis guy a long time ago. Back in the mid-90's I took a rear end to a small, racer welding shop to get some new spring perches put on a rear housing. When I picked up the housing the guy gave me two bushings. He said they slide into the perch holes and over the outside of the spring bolt heads. This helps locate the perches over the springs properly so they don't move around. The holes in the middle of leaf spring perches tend to be larger than the bolts that hold the springs together.
Unfortunately I didn't have the bushings like that around anymore so I made some. I found a rusty piece of tubing that probably strated life as an alternator spacer or something. (I have 8 million of them so I figured I could sacrifice one for the job) Plus it's good, old factory steel, not off-shore junk tubing. I set it in my drill press and reamed it to size which did not take much. I cut it down so the pieces were about 3/8" tall. (I need a lathe for things like this - one day) I made them a bit taller in case I need to add pinion shims. Seems to fit OK.
Here's the reamed-out tubing being fit over the leaf sprint bolt and before it was cut down.
I.D. is now 1/2"
Here is the bushing inside the spring perch but the U-bolts are not tight yet.
U-bolts tight now.
Ironically, part of me thinks this exercise may not have been worth the 10 minutes it took to make the bushings. I just wonder if there needs to be a little space around the spring bolt to allow lateral movement and/or prevent binding. Theoretically it seems like a good thing to help keep things square but I'm not 100% sure that it is. Either way, it's a little detail that most people wouldn't even think about and I like them so they're staying.
More to come.
rmchrgr
Skate And Destroy
More progress to report on this car.
The re-wire job has finally commenced. The rear section of the main harness and the battery disconnect switch is mostly complete. Starting in the rear was the best way to attack this job since the longest runs of wire originate at this point. The disconnect switch is essentially where all the power comes from so it would not have made sense to start connecting things under the dash before seeing how the rearward wires would meet up with their termination points in front.
Initially, the plan was to use an aluminum battery box but due to having to more than one wire that needs to go directly to the battery itself, it would have made things more difficult since it required drilling several holes in the sides of the box to get the other wires to the terminals. Kind of defeats the purpose of having a closed battery box...
As you can see in the pic below, I dug out my old blue plastic Moroso battery box to help mock things up. Since I am installing a rear firewall to seal the passenger compartment from the trunk, it's no longer a requirement to have the battery in a sealed enclosure so I may just end up using a tray instead. I do prefer the idea of a box but the more stuff that has to connect to it the more of a P.I.T.A. it becomes. We'll see, maybe I can figure it out.
Whether it's visible or not, when finished, much of the wiring will be covered with expandable, nylon braided wire sheathing or split loom. I do like this stuff because it tidies things up nicely. It's not the "factory appearing" vinyl wrap but there's not much left on this car that is factory anything. The nylon braid stuff is easy to work with, lightweight, relatively inexpensive and does not involve adhesives of any kind.
The group of wires running up the passenger side in the next pic consists of the alternator charge wire, the Holley EFI main power and ground and the main feed to the fuse box from the disconnect switch. The rear lamp harness and main battery cable to the starter run up the driver's side. You can see the battery cable where it comes around the right rear down bar and routes across the front of the trunk under the package tray.
Even if you've only casually skimmed any Holley EFI literature in the last few years, you'll know that they relentlessly beat you over the head with the notion that the EFI main power and ground leads must go directly to the battery terminals. The idea is that the EFI needs "clean" power that isn't susceptible RFI and/or is not powering any other things with high current draw. Of course, having the battery in the trunk makes that 10x more difficult to execute, especially when you factor in a disconnect switch that has to shut the alterntor off as well.
I'm sure Holley repeats this phrase like a mantra because guys will inevitably find the easiest (stupidest) power supply they can tap into, like the coil + or a piggy back spade terminal tap to the radio power fuse. Everyone seems to know know better though because "that's how we did things back in the day." And besides, what does it matter, B+ is B+? But then wonder why they spent 2 grand on a fancy-new EFI system that won't work. They call the tech line and that's literally the first question they ask you. It's only a matter of time though before they throw in towel and yank the whole thing. Out comes the trusty old 4150 and then its time to come on the forums and bash EFI.
I've literally experienced this exact scenario with a neighbor who I helped install a Sniper system. His original, 55 year old wiring was trashed - the main battery cable was literally hanging on to the terminal by one strand of copper, no lie. I told him point blank he needed to rewire the car before even attempting to get the Sniper running or it would never work right. Even after offering to help, he was convincerd it was a weekend job and he'd be cruising in no time. He installed it himself and it wouldn't start. He didn't follow instructions and did a really poor job wiring the thing and changed none of the old woring out like I suggested. I couldn't even figure out what he did. He was ready to give up but I convinced him to fix the wiring and try again which he did. He eventualy got it running but if I wasn't pushing him to keep trying and making him focus on the correct wiring procedures, he'd be back to a carb. But I digress.
I'm sure you can run the main power to the B+ lug on the fuse box without any issue. But since I'm starting from scratch and have enough wire, I'm doing it the "right" way.
Here's the main dash harness mocked into place. I've removed all the unnecessary wires from it, saved a couple pounds and helps to keep clutter to a minimum. I'm a little stuck as to how I'm going to get the wires through the firewall though. The bulkhead connector that is supplied with the AAW harness kit is a GM part and it sucks. It basically does not fit the original opening. I mean why would it, it's from a completely different manufacturer. Their bulkhead also requires drilling two holes in your firewall to secure it, it does not utilie the factory clips. The two parts screw together to keep them tight which is not such a bad idea but since it does not fit, it inevitably cocks to one side when tightened in the slightest. Just garbage. I've already changed out their crazy fuse box so the bulkhead connector is just another step towards making it work in a Mopar application. Next time, I'll just buy a couple hundred bucks worth of wire and figure it out myself. I could probably make an entirely new harness with all the left over wire. Oh well.
As alluded to, I am working on a rear firewall. I'm not the type to just cut a piece of aluminum to fit, slap some rivets on it and call it done so of course this little project has become somewhat involved. A rear firewall must seal the passenger compartment from the trunk so that includes the package tray. It's not as easy as you'd think to fit stuff back here. There were cardboard templates involved and lots of trial and error.
Package tray templates. The carboard was from a food gift someone sent us. It was really nice cardboard!
Getting there. I will probably end up having to cut the bend at the front, at least on the far right piece. The package tray is sightly uneven where the sections meet and the panel sits a little crooked. I'm not sure how but the aluminum will eventualy get covered up.
I need to figure out how to cover the gap around the rear bars. There are split grommets available for this exact purpose I'd love to be able to use but again, there's not enough room in front of the bar to secure it.
Like so;
I have some scrap aluminum plate that I plan to use for a bezel. The thing will be visible so it has to look decent and fit fairly precisely. I gotta make two of these things so best to sketch it out first. It will be split horizontally so it will cover the seam. I'm gonna try real hard to cut straight lines and drill the holes equidistant. Neither of those skills are my strong suit.
Also kicking around the idea of a "rear seat delete." The approach will be slightly different from say the Super Stock Hemi Darts in that I'd like to cover the rear seat area with a raised platform of sorts. Figure I have to make some sort of basic frame and the aluminum sheet and fasten to that. I may or may not do this. I've already shown the rear firewall shape I cut out a few posts back. Thinking that will get covered in black vinyl if I can find a match for the door panel material.
This is a road sign which is around .080" thick and seems perfect for this. I only have the one right now, I might try to eh uh, find another one for the passenger side.
All for now. More to come.
The re-wire job has finally commenced. The rear section of the main harness and the battery disconnect switch is mostly complete. Starting in the rear was the best way to attack this job since the longest runs of wire originate at this point. The disconnect switch is essentially where all the power comes from so it would not have made sense to start connecting things under the dash before seeing how the rearward wires would meet up with their termination points in front.
Initially, the plan was to use an aluminum battery box but due to having to more than one wire that needs to go directly to the battery itself, it would have made things more difficult since it required drilling several holes in the sides of the box to get the other wires to the terminals. Kind of defeats the purpose of having a closed battery box...
As you can see in the pic below, I dug out my old blue plastic Moroso battery box to help mock things up. Since I am installing a rear firewall to seal the passenger compartment from the trunk, it's no longer a requirement to have the battery in a sealed enclosure so I may just end up using a tray instead. I do prefer the idea of a box but the more stuff that has to connect to it the more of a P.I.T.A. it becomes. We'll see, maybe I can figure it out.
Whether it's visible or not, when finished, much of the wiring will be covered with expandable, nylon braided wire sheathing or split loom. I do like this stuff because it tidies things up nicely. It's not the "factory appearing" vinyl wrap but there's not much left on this car that is factory anything. The nylon braid stuff is easy to work with, lightweight, relatively inexpensive and does not involve adhesives of any kind.
The group of wires running up the passenger side in the next pic consists of the alternator charge wire, the Holley EFI main power and ground and the main feed to the fuse box from the disconnect switch. The rear lamp harness and main battery cable to the starter run up the driver's side. You can see the battery cable where it comes around the right rear down bar and routes across the front of the trunk under the package tray.
Even if you've only casually skimmed any Holley EFI literature in the last few years, you'll know that they relentlessly beat you over the head with the notion that the EFI main power and ground leads must go directly to the battery terminals. The idea is that the EFI needs "clean" power that isn't susceptible RFI and/or is not powering any other things with high current draw. Of course, having the battery in the trunk makes that 10x more difficult to execute, especially when you factor in a disconnect switch that has to shut the alterntor off as well.
I'm sure Holley repeats this phrase like a mantra because guys will inevitably find the easiest (stupidest) power supply they can tap into, like the coil + or a piggy back spade terminal tap to the radio power fuse. Everyone seems to know know better though because "that's how we did things back in the day." And besides, what does it matter, B+ is B+? But then wonder why they spent 2 grand on a fancy-new EFI system that won't work. They call the tech line and that's literally the first question they ask you. It's only a matter of time though before they throw in towel and yank the whole thing. Out comes the trusty old 4150 and then its time to come on the forums and bash EFI.
I've literally experienced this exact scenario with a neighbor who I helped install a Sniper system. His original, 55 year old wiring was trashed - the main battery cable was literally hanging on to the terminal by one strand of copper, no lie. I told him point blank he needed to rewire the car before even attempting to get the Sniper running or it would never work right. Even after offering to help, he was convincerd it was a weekend job and he'd be cruising in no time. He installed it himself and it wouldn't start. He didn't follow instructions and did a really poor job wiring the thing and changed none of the old woring out like I suggested. I couldn't even figure out what he did. He was ready to give up but I convinced him to fix the wiring and try again which he did. He eventualy got it running but if I wasn't pushing him to keep trying and making him focus on the correct wiring procedures, he'd be back to a carb. But I digress.
I'm sure you can run the main power to the B+ lug on the fuse box without any issue. But since I'm starting from scratch and have enough wire, I'm doing it the "right" way.
Here's the main dash harness mocked into place. I've removed all the unnecessary wires from it, saved a couple pounds and helps to keep clutter to a minimum. I'm a little stuck as to how I'm going to get the wires through the firewall though. The bulkhead connector that is supplied with the AAW harness kit is a GM part and it sucks. It basically does not fit the original opening. I mean why would it, it's from a completely different manufacturer. Their bulkhead also requires drilling two holes in your firewall to secure it, it does not utilie the factory clips. The two parts screw together to keep them tight which is not such a bad idea but since it does not fit, it inevitably cocks to one side when tightened in the slightest. Just garbage. I've already changed out their crazy fuse box so the bulkhead connector is just another step towards making it work in a Mopar application. Next time, I'll just buy a couple hundred bucks worth of wire and figure it out myself. I could probably make an entirely new harness with all the left over wire. Oh well.
As alluded to, I am working on a rear firewall. I'm not the type to just cut a piece of aluminum to fit, slap some rivets on it and call it done so of course this little project has become somewhat involved. A rear firewall must seal the passenger compartment from the trunk so that includes the package tray. It's not as easy as you'd think to fit stuff back here. There were cardboard templates involved and lots of trial and error.
Package tray templates. The carboard was from a food gift someone sent us. It was really nice cardboard!
Getting there. I will probably end up having to cut the bend at the front, at least on the far right piece. The package tray is sightly uneven where the sections meet and the panel sits a little crooked. I'm not sure how but the aluminum will eventualy get covered up.
I need to figure out how to cover the gap around the rear bars. There are split grommets available for this exact purpose I'd love to be able to use but again, there's not enough room in front of the bar to secure it.
Like so;
I have some scrap aluminum plate that I plan to use for a bezel. The thing will be visible so it has to look decent and fit fairly precisely. I gotta make two of these things so best to sketch it out first. It will be split horizontally so it will cover the seam. I'm gonna try real hard to cut straight lines and drill the holes equidistant. Neither of those skills are my strong suit.
Also kicking around the idea of a "rear seat delete." The approach will be slightly different from say the Super Stock Hemi Darts in that I'd like to cover the rear seat area with a raised platform of sorts. Figure I have to make some sort of basic frame and the aluminum sheet and fasten to that. I may or may not do this. I've already shown the rear firewall shape I cut out a few posts back. Thinking that will get covered in black vinyl if I can find a match for the door panel material.
This is a road sign which is around .080" thick and seems perfect for this. I only have the one right now, I might try to eh uh, find another one for the passenger side.
All for now. More to come.
mopowers
Well-Known Member
Excellent write up! I'm in the middle of the same tasks on my 66 build. Do you plan on finishing the aluminum package tray somehow? I was just planning on sealing any seams with polyurethane seam sealer and shooting it with some type of textured coating like undercoating or truck bed liner. I'm thinking that would finish off the seams and bare panels nicely. I'm curious what you go with.More progress to report on this car.
The re-wire job has finally commenced. The rear section of the main harness and the battery disconnect switch is mostly complete. Starting in the rear was the best way to attack this job since the longest runs of wire originate at this point. The disconnect switch is essentially where all the power comes from so it would not have made sense to start connecting things under the dash before seeing how the rearward wires would meet up with their termination points in front.
Initially, the plan was to use an aluminum battery box but due to having to more than one wire that needs to go directly to the battery itself, it would have made things more difficult since it required drilling several holes in the sides of the box to get the other wires to the terminals. Kind of defeats the purpose of having a closed battery box...
As you can see in the pic below, I dug out my old blue plastic Moroso battery box to help mock things up. Since I am installing a rear firewall to seal the passenger compartment from the trunk, it's no longer a requirement to have the battery in a sealed enclosure so I may just end up using a tray instead. I do prefer the idea of a box but the more stuff that has to connect to it the more of a P.I.T.A. it becomes. We'll see, maybe I can figure it out.
Whether it's visible or not, when finished, much of the wiring will be covered with expandable, nylon braided wire sheathing or split loom. I do like this stuff because it tidies things up nicely. It's not the "factory appearing" vinyl wrap but there's not much left on this car that is factory anything. The nylon braid stuff is easy to work with, lightweight, relatively inexpensive and does not involve adhesives of any kind.
View attachment 1716015853
The group of wires running up the passenger side in the next pic consists of the alternator charge wire, the Holley EFI main power and ground and the main feed to the fuse box from the disconnect switch. The rear lamp harness and main battery cable to the starter run up the driver's side. You can see the battery cable where it comes around the right rear down bar and routes across the front of the trunk under the package tray.
Even if you've only casually skimmed any Holley EFI literature in the last few years, you'll know that they relentlessly beat you over the head with the notion that the EFI main power and ground leads must go directly to the battery terminals. The idea is that the EFI needs "clean" power that isn't susceptible RFI and/or is not powering any other things with high current draw. Of course, having the battery in the trunk makes that 10x more difficult to execute, especially when you factor in a disconnect switch that has to shut the alterntor off as well.
I'm sure Holley repeats this phrase like a mantra because guys will inevitably find the easiest (stupidest) power supply they can tap into, like the coil + or a piggy back spade terminal tap to the radio power fuse. Everyone seems to know know better though because "that's how we did things back in the day." And besides, what does it matter, B+ is B+? But then wonder why they spent 2 grand on a fancy-new EFI system that won't work. They call the tech line and that's literally the first question they ask you. It's only a matter of time though before they throw in towel and yank the whole thing. Out comes the trusty old 4150 and then its time to come on the forums and bash EFI.
I've literally experienced this exact scenario with a neighbor who I helped install a Sniper system. His original, 55 year old wiring was trashed - the main battery cable was literally hanging on to the terminal by one strand of copper, no lie. I told him point blank he needed to rewire the car before even attempting to get the Sniper running or it would never work right. Even after offering to help, he was convincerd it was a weekend job and he'd be cruising in no time. He installed it himself and it wouldn't start. He didn't follow instructions and did a really poor job wiring the thing and changed none of the old woring out like I suggested. I couldn't even figure out what he did. He was ready to give up but I convinced him to fix the wiring and try again which he did. He eventualy got it running but if I wasn't pushing him to keep trying and making him focus on the correct wiring procedures, he'd be back to a carb. But I digress.
I'm sure you can run the main power to the B+ lug on the fuse box without any issue. But since I'm starting from scratch and have enough wire, I'm doing it the "right" way.
View attachment 1716015852
Here's the main dash harness mocked into place. I've removed all the unnecessary wires from it, saved a couple pounds and helps to keep clutter to a minimum. I'm a little stuck as to how I'm going to get the wires through the firewall though. The bulkhead connector that is supplied with the AAW harness kit is a GM part and it sucks. It basically does not fit the original opening. I mean why would it, it's from a completely different manufacturer. Their bulkhead also requires drilling two holes in your firewall to secure it, it does not utilie the factory clips. The two parts screw together to keep them tight which is not such a bad idea but since it does not fit, it inevitably cocks to one side when tightened in the slightest. Just garbage. I've already changed out their crazy fuse box so the bulkhead connector is just another step towards making it work in a Mopar application. Next time, I'll just buy a couple hundred bucks worth of wire and figure it out myself. I could probably make an entirely new harness with all the left over wire. Oh well.
View attachment 1716015850
As alluded to, I am working on a rear firewall. I'm not the type to just cut a piece of aluminum to fit, slap some rivets on it and call it done so of course this little project has become somewhat involved. A rear firewall must seal the passenger compartment from the trunk so that includes the package tray. It's not as easy as you'd think to fit stuff back here. There were cardboard templates involved and lots of trial and error.
Package tray templates. The carboard was from a food gift someone sent us. It was really nice cardboard!
View attachment 1716015983
View attachment 1716015847
Getting there. I will probably end up having to cut the bend at the front, at least on the far right piece. The package tray is sightly uneven where the sections meet and the panel sits a little crooked. I'm not sure how but the aluminum will eventualy get covered up.
View attachment 1716015846
I need to figure out how to cover the gap around the rear bars. There are split grommets available for this exact purpose I'd love to be able to use but again, there's not enough room in front of the bar to secure it.
Like so;
View attachment 1716016034
I have some scrap aluminum plate that I plan to use for a bezel. The thing will be visible so it has to look decent and fit fairly precisely. I gotta make two of these things so best to sketch it out first. It will be split horizontally so it will cover the seam. I'm gonna try real hard to cut straight lines and drill the holes equidistant. Neither of those skills are my strong suit.
View attachment 1716015845
Also kicking around the idea of a "rear seat delete." The approach will be slightly different from say the Super Stock Hemi Darts in that I'd like to cover the rear seat area with a raised platform of sorts. Figure I have to make some sort of basic frame and the aluminum sheet and fasten to that. I may or may not do this. I've already shown the rear firewall shape I cut out a few posts back. Thinking that will get covered in black vinyl if I can find a match for the door panel material.
This is a road sign which is around .080" thick and seems perfect for this. I only have the one right now, I might try to eh uh, find another one for the passenger side.
View attachment 1716015849
All for now. More to come.
Also, what size alternator charge wire and starter cable did you go with? How is it all fused?
rmchrgr
Skate And Destroy
Yes, I plan to finish the package tray. Currently thinking about faux carbon fiber wrap/paper applied directly to the aluminum. I used that stuff on my '68 Coronet to cover up the beat up old dash bezels and it came out great. The carbon fiber look would be somewhat similar in appearance to the factory package tray dull (no glare) finish.
The aluminum panels will ultimately get riveted or screwed to the package shelf. I don't plan to seam seal it or anything but I will put some strips over the seams to cover them for a finished appearance. Also planning on putting some kind of thin insulation or rubber strips underneath to keep the rattles down.
Thought about putting something on top of the aluminum but that too would have to be cut to fit so most likely I'll stick with the first idea with the wrap. I'd have to drill the mount holes first, apply the wrap stuff then fasten them down for good.
The factory tray is basically just Masonite painted flat black with some trim stitched into the sides. I learned the hard way it's a no-go with a roll bar because I destroyed a brand new one from Legendary trying get it in. I could custom make one like I did with the aluminum but it's probably not worth the effort.
In regards to the alt. wire, I thinks it is #4. I'm looking at this bulkhead connector. It allows one to disconnect the charge wire without having to remove it entirely. Not a cheap little trinket though!
rmchrgr
Skate And Destroy
Made some more progress on the "Super Stock style" rear seat/trunk firewall area. Prior to moving forward though there was a little internal debate about putting the rear seat back in. The roll bar rear bars are the seat saver type since they go through the package tray. I did actually have the seat back there for a while but the more I thought about, the less it made sense. No one is climbing over the main hoop cross bar to get back there so if it never gets used, it's dead weight. Not to mention I cut out the floor brackets and seat back hooks. Say-o-nara.
Did some trimming on the trunk divider to get it to sit more flush against the seat back structure. It's pretty snug now but it's taken a lot of back and forth to get it to this point. You can see on the bottom edge of it where I bent a flange so it can be fastened to the platform below it. The flange was difficult to form since I only have a pitiful 30" HF brake. I cobbled something up in my vise to accommodate the longer piece. Essentially it worked but one side slipped during the bend so I had to knock it into shape with a hammer and dolly.
Once it's in place for good I'll probably get a piece of Masonite or ABS plastic cut into the same shape as the firewall and cover it with the factory-correct coachman grain vinyl for a finished look.
Since the last post, the decision was made to go ahead with the rear seat platform. As stated previously, it's made from traffic sign aluminum which is .080" thick 5052. I wanted it a little thicker so I could put stuff back there if needed and not worry about .040" caving in or getting all dented up. Next step is a simple frame to hold it up and keep it solid. The 2x4s the platform is resting on seem to be a good height. The platform will eventually get covered with carpet.
I used a contour gauge for the wheel well cutouts. The contour was transferred to cardboard to check fitment then the shape was traced on to the aluminum. Worked pretty good!
Like a lot of the side projects on this car, the rear seat area project is taking a long time. There's a lot of trial and error with fitment. Now that the other pieces are closer to where I want them I may end up-re-doing the package tray area. I'm happy with how it's turning out overall though. It's not a mess or anything and it all fits nicely.
More to come.
Did some trimming on the trunk divider to get it to sit more flush against the seat back structure. It's pretty snug now but it's taken a lot of back and forth to get it to this point. You can see on the bottom edge of it where I bent a flange so it can be fastened to the platform below it. The flange was difficult to form since I only have a pitiful 30" HF brake. I cobbled something up in my vise to accommodate the longer piece. Essentially it worked but one side slipped during the bend so I had to knock it into shape with a hammer and dolly.
Once it's in place for good I'll probably get a piece of Masonite or ABS plastic cut into the same shape as the firewall and cover it with the factory-correct coachman grain vinyl for a finished look.
Since the last post, the decision was made to go ahead with the rear seat platform. As stated previously, it's made from traffic sign aluminum which is .080" thick 5052. I wanted it a little thicker so I could put stuff back there if needed and not worry about .040" caving in or getting all dented up. Next step is a simple frame to hold it up and keep it solid. The 2x4s the platform is resting on seem to be a good height. The platform will eventually get covered with carpet.
I used a contour gauge for the wheel well cutouts. The contour was transferred to cardboard to check fitment then the shape was traced on to the aluminum. Worked pretty good!
Like a lot of the side projects on this car, the rear seat area project is taking a long time. There's a lot of trial and error with fitment. Now that the other pieces are closer to where I want them I may end up-re-doing the package tray area. I'm happy with how it's turning out overall though. It's not a mess or anything and it all fits nicely.
More to come.
rmchrgr
Skate And Destroy
Thanks for the likes guys. Doing this car over again has been good. I‘m glad to be undoing all the half-assed **** I did 10 years ago and am learning a lot. The idea is to make things as sanitary and functional as possible. Some day I will buy myself some better fab tools.
And yeah, it’s probably got more stripped-down Ricky-racer elements than not but it’s still a street car so a lot of these extra steps to achieve a certain look do tend to make things more involved. The finished product will be cool in the end though!
And yeah, it’s probably got more stripped-down Ricky-racer elements than not but it’s still a street car so a lot of these extra steps to achieve a certain look do tend to make things more involved. The finished product will be cool in the end though!
rmchrgr
Skate And Destroy
From yesterday, 12.20.22. Need to finish the platform frame but it's getting there.
rmchrgr
Skate And Destroy
Made some more progress on the 'rear seat delete' platform. Naturally, this side project has taken a lot more work than originally envisioned. As with anything, the first time you do something it takes forever. I'm only half done too since the other side needs to be done now but hopefully that will go a little quicker. The piece in front had to be cut in half which I wanted to avoid but it made it a lot easier to deal with. It's also not the prettiest thing in the world so thankfully it won't be seen underneath. It's rattle proof solid and dead level though.
The plan was to make it as light as possible and removable. I'd estimate the whole shebang weighs 6-7 lbs. Can't see them in this pic but there are two welded brackets in the front where the structure bolts to. They're only spot welded so if me or someone else down the road wants to put the rear seat back in the brackets can be zipped off easily. There are two brackets in the back of it where it screws to the base of the trunk divider brace and the base cushion frame hanger.
Hard to tell in the pic but I did screw up the dimensions a bit. It's not a big deal really but the aluminum sheet is short by about 1/4". Not sure how that happened but par for the course for me. Regardless, I have to compensate for it by either moving it towards the front to be even with the frame or back flush against the wheel well leaving a large gap in front. It will be covered with carpet either way but it will always bother me knowing it's not perfect!
There is so much fitting with this stuff. Put it in, check it, take it out, adjust it, etc. There also seems to be a very specific sequence for tightening the mount brackets since it tends to bend. Honestly, I'll be glad to be done with it. I doubt many would go through the effort to do this type of thing and I'm questioning myself for getting so involved with it. Hopefully it will be cool when it's done.
More to come.
The plan was to make it as light as possible and removable. I'd estimate the whole shebang weighs 6-7 lbs. Can't see them in this pic but there are two welded brackets in the front where the structure bolts to. They're only spot welded so if me or someone else down the road wants to put the rear seat back in the brackets can be zipped off easily. There are two brackets in the back of it where it screws to the base of the trunk divider brace and the base cushion frame hanger.
Hard to tell in the pic but I did screw up the dimensions a bit. It's not a big deal really but the aluminum sheet is short by about 1/4". Not sure how that happened but par for the course for me. Regardless, I have to compensate for it by either moving it towards the front to be even with the frame or back flush against the wheel well leaving a large gap in front. It will be covered with carpet either way but it will always bother me knowing it's not perfect!
There is so much fitting with this stuff. Put it in, check it, take it out, adjust it, etc. There also seems to be a very specific sequence for tightening the mount brackets since it tends to bend. Honestly, I'll be glad to be done with it. I doubt many would go through the effort to do this type of thing and I'm questioning myself for getting so involved with it. Hopefully it will be cool when it's done.
More to come.
abdywgn
dismantler
that'll be nice for carrying the trophies and groceries home. Nice work!
rmchrgr
Skate And Destroy
Yes, trophies! Someday I hope!
rmchrgr
Skate And Destroy
As expected, the passenger side rear-seat-delete platform frame took no time at all. Have to weld in a few more supports and something under the middle seam for the panel edges to fasten to but the basic framework is done. The bottom of the rear firewall sits farther forward than I realized so there will likely need to be some sort of mount brackets for it behind the bottom edge. Also have to make the one last package tray panel in the middle there then this side project should mercifully be wrapping up.
Yeah, this pic looks the same as post #395 but this time the panels are not just propped up, they're resting on solid frames that are attached to the floor structure. Attaching the panels to the frame is going to be a PITA though.
Looking forward to finishing this so I can go back to avoiding the wiring. More to come.
Yeah, this pic looks the same as post #395 but this time the panels are not just propped up, they're resting on solid frames that are attached to the floor structure. Attaching the panels to the frame is going to be a PITA though.
Looking forward to finishing this so I can go back to avoiding the wiring. More to come.
abdywgn
dismantler
if you made the bottom seat a little taller, it could have been a cooler...then if you went to a DragWeek event, there would always be cool drinks. Nice work!
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