The question of the day: Stick with auto or go auto to stick?

Manual vs. Auto

  • Stick with A999

    Votes: 4 21.1%

  • Convert to A833

    Votes: 15 78.9%
  • Total voters
    19
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Cuprum-74

Cuprum-74

Moparus Fanaticus
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So, I just acquired a rusted out shell (no trans or motor) of a 74 duster for free. It had a manual in it so I now have access to a manual trans hump, clutch pedal assembly, Z-bar, etc.

Hopefully this doesn't cause an auto vs. manual flame war.

So I'm deciding now if I really want to swap to manual or not.
I currently have a built up A999. It has kolene steels, red eagle clutches, cheetah stage 2 valve body and a Hughes torque converter. It has also been modified to non-lockup.

I like manuals. I really do, but I also been really liking the A999 (although OD would be nice).

My current motor specs (in case anyone is curious):
1991 factory roller cam 360.
Lunati Voodoo roller cam (int/exh) .515/.530 lift - 270/279 dur. - LSA/ICL: 112/106
Speed pro flat-topped pistons .020 below deck
Weiand action plus. intake.
I currently have worked over 308 heads. Converting to magnum heads soon.
 
Tantibus-74 said:
So, I just acquired a rusted out shell (no trans or motor) of a 74 duster for free. It had a manual in it so I now have access to a manual trans hump, clutch pedal assembly, Z-bar, etc.

Hopefully this doesn't cause an auto vs. manual flame war.

So I'm deciding now if I really want to swap to manual or not.
I currently have a built up A999. It has kolene steels, red eagle clutches, cheetah stage 2 valve body and a Hughes torque converter. It has also been modified to non-lockup.

I like manuals. I really do, but I also been really liking the A999 (although OD would be nice).

My current motor specs (in case anyone is curious):
1991 factory roller cam 360.
Lunati Voodoo roller cam (int/exh) .515/.530 lift - 270/279 dur. - LSA/ICL: 112/106
Speed pro flat-topped pistons .020 below deck
Weiand action plus. intake.
I currently have worked over 308 heads. Converting to magnum heads soon.
Click to expand...
It's a personal choice. I think a manual is just more fun to drive. This is probably not a car that will be driven everyday.
I had a 68 Road Runner that I bought new, 383 4 spd. I have a 64 Fairlane I have owned for 25 years. Originally a 260, 2 speed auto.
Now a 289, 4 spd. My daily driver is 2005 Scion TC with a manual trans. I think the Scion in particular, is more fun to drive with a
manual because it is a 4 cyl. car. The only time a manual is not fun is when one is stuck in traffic.
 
625E4ED5-26E0-41F7-B762-AB90995FD20E.jpeg
B50402BF-D735-4A5A-B0E7-1B7BBFA0F850.jpeg
4 speeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed
The best stick I drive 2015 Z51 7 speed manual. New shifter Ball to replace original.
 
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If it helps any, I considered the same thing (manual vs a500), and found a pretty good alternative -- the A833OD.

Now, a lot of people tell you to be wary of it because of its weak mainshaft and wide gear ratio spread, but those are things I'm willing to live with. I haven't installed it yet, so I can't tell you how my car runs with it, but I think it'll be good.

I'm running a very mild 360 in a 1968 Barracuda, and all I want is the ability to hammer gears and still get decent mileage. My car is very much a daily to driver that gets it's legs stretched between stoplights and on the highway, so close-ratio gear crashing isn't completely necessary. I don't know what you plan on using your car for, but just remember that there are overdrive 4 speeds.
 
The real question here is what do you want? Everyone is going to have an opinion it's going to come down to what do you want and just go with it! Good luck with your project and post some pictures.
 
Chained_360 said:
I'm running a very mild 360 in a 1968 Barracuda, and all I want is the ability to hammer gears and still get decent mileage. My car is very much a daily to driver that gets it's legs stretched between stoplights and on the highway, so close-ratio gear crashing isn't completely necessary. I don't know what you plan on using your car for, but just remember that there are overdrive 4 speeds.
Click to expand...
Well, I daily drive mine over half the time, usually in good weather, I drive the beater Honda during winter typically. I do long distance cruises (500+ miles) a few times a year. I will take it to the track maybe once or twice a year. I currently have 3.21 gears with 26.5" diameter rear tires. (245/60R15) Which is has done me good so far.
I did have 3.55 rear gears at one time. (long story, lets just say some idiot in a shop didn't install the pinion correctly). These gears were a little more "fun."
 
JM2C - an automatic. --- but I have a bad left knee and driving a standard just ain't it for me.. so there you go. As far as "ease" of build goes - it's going to be easier to put back in what was there in the first place.. so you gotta ask yourself - do you feel lucky today? Well do ya pun.. opps, got off the track there - ..ask yourself, just how involved do you want to get in the build!? Good luck with it! :thumbsup:
 
I love banging gears. At my age I never know when a knee will go bad. But until, I will use the manual .... Now if i was driving in city traffic, I would only go with t he auto, BUT I never drive in traffic out here.
 
Chained_360 said:
If it helps any, I considered the same thing (manual vs a500), and found a pretty good alternative -- the A833OD.

Now, a lot of people tell you to be wary of it because of its weak mainshaft and wide gear ratio spread, but those are things I'm willing to live with. I haven't installed it yet, so I can't tell you how my car runs with it, but I think it'll be good.

I'm running a very mild 360 in a 1968 Barracuda, and all I want is the ability to hammer gears and still get decent mileage. My car is very much a daily to driver that gets it's legs stretched between stoplights and on the highway, so close-ratio gear crashing isn't completely necessary. I don't know what you plan on using your car for, but just remember that there are overdrive 4 speeds.
Click to expand...

Well I actually called Passon in regards to their Hemi A833 4spd OD trans. A bit pricey, and the guy on the phone was kind of an a**hole. Then I looked at Brewers. OD would really be nice! Is there a way to beef up the original A833 OD? If there is, sign me up! I'll get one and do it myself! I'm willing to tear into things and reverse engineer it.
That's how I was able to rebuild the A999 I have.
 
I have one of each. (4 speed and auto) .Both are fun although the auto would be more fun if it was a Slap Stick like my Challengers had. I had a few different aftermarket auto shifters and I like the Slap Stick the best.
 
I love four speeds especially in A-bodies but in heavy traffic such as the Woodward Dream Cruise an automatic is great.
 
Tantibus-74 said:
Well I actually called Passon in regards to their Hemi A833 4spd OD trans. A bit pricey, and the guy on the phone was kind of an a**hole. Then I looked at Brewers. OD would really be nice! Is there a way to beef up the original A833 OD? If there is, sign me up! I'll get one and do it myself! I'm willing to tear into things and reverse engineer it.
That's how I was able to rebuild the A999 I have.
Click to expand...

I have sold a couple of the OD units and have kept a couple. There are two mainshaft diameters and I have the larger of the two. I have them in aluminum or I have a cast iron case that will need going through. The aluminum one is rebuilt....looks pretty good. My research on this site, tells me that guys tend to shy away from the OD unit because of RPM drop in between shifts, so if going for a strict drag or Light to Light car, steer clear of OD units. If you don't mind the drop (I personally am going to run one to see what its all about, but I have both types of units) then I say go for the OD. They usually come with a 3.09 first. So with a 3:23-3:91 rear (pending on wheel height) you should have a hell of a first gear launch. Building in as much torque into a motor as you can will lend to not noticing the RPM drop.

I am shooting from the hip on some of this logic so go easy on ol clem......just a guy....tryin to shed some light....
 
Ok, well... I looked it over, yeah the poor thing is an abandoned resto attempt. and was left to the mice + elements. Manual transmission center hump is intact woohoo! Clutch pedal assembly is intact woohoo!... Z-Bar setup is there some missing linkages but ok Woo-... Wait it's for a 198ci Slant six... Sunuva... I know these are different from V8's but is there any way I can make this Z-bar work? Or do I have to get a V8 one.
Sorry for the Newbish question, I have never dealt with an A833 trans before. The only manuals I have experience with are AX-15's, Borg/Warner T-5 (barf), Peugot's BA10/5 (barf, puke, double barf, dry heave)
 
Tantibus-74 said:
Is there a way to beef up the original A833 OD? If there is, sign me up! I'll get one and do it myself! I'm willing to tear into things and reverse engineer it.
That's how I was able to rebuild the A999 I have.
Click to expand...
There most certainly is! If you have a cast iron OD unit (not super common), then you don't have to worry about this modification, but aluminum units have a floating countershaft. Basically this means that the shaft that the countergear rides on isn't a press fit into the case; I think the factory spec is +/- 0.005" of play between the countershaft bore and the shaft itself. This isn't an issue for the engines that chrysler put the OD units behind, but once you start throwing some serious power through them, then what happens is the countershaft slowly begins to wallow out the countershaft bore in the case. It starts out fine until it gets so bad that the countershaft gears come out of alignment and grenade the whole transmission. To prevent this, you can machine out the bore in the transmission case and install a steel bushing that has a tighter fit around the countershaft, which will stop it from destroying itself. Hot rod magazine did a writeup on it, but you might have to do some extra research: A-833 Aluminum Case Buildup - Mopar Muscle Magazine

The second weakness in the OD A833 is the mainshaft. To fit the overdrive gear on the shaft, they had to make the shaft smaller (and the gear is a lot smaller too). This basically just dramatically reduces the amount of abuse that 4th gear can take. As far as I know, there isn't really a solution to this other than "don't floor it in 4th." IMO, if you really need that 0.73 overdrive ratio in your car to go fast, you either have the wrong setup, or you need to buy a stronger transmission altogether. Again, it all depends on what you plan on using the car for.

People have varying opinions on how much power is too much for the OD transmissions, but there's stories of people running them behind 440s at the strip and having no problem. Personally, mine is going behind a mild 360 and it's gonna be treated as a three-speed with overdrive. It's also going to be driven as a daily driver for 95% of its miles, so I don't really need a bulletproof transmission.
 
Chained_360 said:
There most certainly is! If you have a cast iron OD unit (not super common), then you don't have to worry about this modification, but aluminum units have a floating countershaft. Basically this means that the shaft that the countergear rides on isn't a press fit into the case; I think the factory spec is +/- 0.005" of play between the countershaft bore and the shaft itself. This isn't an issue for the engines that chrysler put the OD units behind, but once you start throwing some serious power through them, then what happens is the countershaft slowly begins to wallow out the countershaft bore in the case. It starts out fine until it gets so bad that the countershaft gears come out of alignment and grenade the whole transmission. To prevent this, you can machine out the bore in the transmission case and install a steel bushing that has a tighter fit around the countershaft, which will stop it from destroying itself. Hot rod magazine did a writeup on it, but you might have to do some extra research: A-833 Aluminum Case Buildup - Mopar Muscle Magazine

The second weakness in the OD A833 is the mainshaft. To fit the overdrive gear on the shaft, they had to make the shaft smaller (and the gear is a lot smaller too). This basically just dramatically reduces the amount of abuse that 4th gear can take. As far as I know, there isn't really a solution to this other than "don't floor it in 4th." IMO, if you really need that 0.73 overdrive ratio in your car to go fast, you either have the wrong setup, or you need to buy a stronger transmission altogether. Again, it all depends on what you plan on using the car for.

People have varying opinions on how much power is too much for the OD transmissions, but there's stories of people running them behind 440s at the strip and having no problem. Personally, mine is going behind a mild 360 and it's gonna be treated as a three-speed with overdrive. It's also going to be driven as a daily driver for 95% of its miles, so I don't really need a bulletproof transmission.
Click to expand...

"it's gonna be treated as a three-speed with overdrive" Very important and well said!
 
As others have said it's a personal decision. If I were not having back troubles I'd vote 833 because rowing the gears really makes for a fun hot rod but shifting gears gets old for me. Plus for racing you can't beat a good automatic and it sounds like you have one. We can all vote our opinions but you'll have to add up the pro's and con's of each to determine what's best for you
 
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