Throw in your.02 on Torque Converter Suggestion

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DusterDaddy

DusterDaddy

sledgehammer mechanic
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I bought a nicely built never been fired 318 from a speed shop that got the motor from a customer who bought the 71 Demon it was in with the intention of having the shop I got it from build and install a big block in the car.
The owner of the shop pulled the oil pan and intake and tells me the bottom of the motor was stock and super clean. The cam is a clone of what came in the 70 340's.
The heads are 74 318 heads ported and polished with hardened seats with 1.88 intake valves and 1.60 exhaust valves installed. The heads are port matched to the intake and the 360 Truck exhaust manifolds are gasket port matched to the head
The intake is a Performer with a 650CFM Holley.
The builder was following the classic path to get 400 HP from a 318. Will it get there? I hope so.

Anyway, I found a nice 904 with 300 miles on it since a rebuild, and I need to choose a torque converter to go between my new motor and my new trans. My Duster is a 74, that was a 318/904 car with a factory 8-1/4 rear. The tag on the rear is gone, but it's pretty clear it's never been open.

I'm just going to drive the car in the summer to cruise nights and the beach and on Sunday mornings to go get bagels....

Please give me your valued opinions!

Thanks!
 

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Not an expert here, but I think you'll be happy with a 1800-2500 range converter. I think any higher and you'll be revving it up just to get moving. Haven't heard good words on TCI hardware or customer service...Check out www.727specialis.com for a recommendation...lots of mopar tranny/converter knowledge.
 
If you want a relatively inexspensive one summit has a hughes 2200 that should work with that set up. Otherwise get one built for your setup.
 
Thanks, the number on the drivers side pan rail is PK443155493486436
Anyone know how the figure what the 904 was in originally using that number?
I sure as hell don't
 
DusterDaddy said:
Thanks, the number on the drivers side pan rail is PK443155493486436
Anyone know how the figure what the 904 was in originally using that number?
I sure as hell don't
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Checked my chart and it stops at 441xxxx and those were 86 transmissions. Are you sure you got the #'s correct? If so it's newer than 86. Do the input shaft splines go all the way to the end of the shaft or does it have about 1/2" of the front end machined down smooth? If it is machined smooth it's a lockup trans. Here's a picture showing both. The top picture is of a lockup shaft. I should also note that converters don't interchange between lockup and non-lockup.

Sorry to bust your bubble but there's absolutely no possible way it'll make anywhere close to 400 hp. Cam is wayyyyyyy too small, intake and heads won't flow enough air. Maybe 300 hp tops and that's pushing it. If you stop and think of it what you have is a small cubic inch version of a 340 with small valves in the heads. 70 340's were only rated at 275 hp. Not saying it won't be a decent running engine. Just not anywhere close to 400 hp
 

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I agree with fishy68 maybe 400 HP with a bigger aftermarket cam, RPM or similar high-rise intake, 360 heads and headers but that current setup is a solid 300 HP at best. I also recommend around 2200 RPM stall if you keep that cam or go with a similar duration grind.

Not to say that's anything to be disappointed by my 360 Magnum makes around 325 HP (but 400+ lb-ft) and in my Duster it is a blast, boils the tires no sweat even with stock 2.76 gears
 
Torque, is what you want... Unless you want to tear the engine apart(read expensive), For the money ,a 3:23 gear,and a 2000-2200 converter. Unless racing,why?. Enjoy.
 
fishy68 said:
Checked my chart and it stops at 441xxxx and those were 86 transmissions. Are you sure you got the #'s correct? If so it's newer than 86. Do the input shaft splines go all the way to the end of the shaft or does it have about 1/2" of the front end machined down smooth? If it is machined smooth it's a lockup trans. Here's a picture showing both. The top picture is of a lockup shaft. I should also note that converters don't interchange between lockup and non-lockup.

Sorry to bust your bubble but there's absolutely no possible way it'll make anywhere close to 400 hp. Cam is wayyyyyyy too small, intake and heads won't flow enough air. Maybe 300 hp tops and that's pushing it. If you stop and think of it what you have is a small cubic inch version of a 340 with small valves in the heads. 70 340's were only rated at 275 hp. Not saying it won't be a decent running engine. Just not anywhere close to 400 hp
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No bubble to bust here, I got this motor for $400, I don't have the skills to build my own or the time or the space. I read this article

http://www.hotrod.com/howto/113_0304_318_small_block_build/viewall.html

And I looked for a motor with some of the attributes mentioned in the article. There is no way I would ever again have headers on a street only car, and those truck manifolds flow pretty nice and the mod needed to use them on the driver side in a Duster with power steering isn't bad and as a bonus you can change spark plugs with ease.

I have read so many articles about killing already poor compression with sticking 360 heads on a teen, and the local performance shop in my town ( yeah we still have one ) that had nothing to do with this motor, eyeballed the heads and gave it 2 enthusiastic thumbs up.

That shop has a great reputation, so I'm going to run the motor the way I got it.

I feel kinda stupid throwing that number out there now, but common sense tells me now if I want to cam-up, and tweak the intake I can get more out of it if I want....

I'm going to paint the intake and stick a snorkel air cleaner on there and have it look really modest under the hood.

I'd appreciate further comments on the motor set up and converter suggestions.

What does the higher stall converter get me in street performance anyway?
 
bamamopar said:
Call PTC! There picked the perfect converter for my 360 http://www.ptcrace.com/
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X2. When I bought our 2800 stall converter for my 273, they built my converter with the small 273 snout for a 68up trans. When we contacted them & told them it was a 67 904 they air-freighted a free replacement & told me to keep the other one.
 
That article is VERY optimistic on HP level. Similar 340-360's with J heads barely make 350hp with that camshaft and an RPM intake.

That engine likely never made it into a car to prove out HP.

Manifolds on that engine, if it made 300 you'd be lucky is my guess.
 
crackedback said:
That article is VERY optimistic on HP level. Similar 340-360's with J heads barely make 350hp with that camshaft and an RPM intake.

That engine likely never made it into a car to prove out HP.

Manifolds on that engine, if it made 300 you'd be lucky is my guess.
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DusterDaddy said:
I feel kinda stupid throwing that number out there now, but common sense tells me now if I want to cam-up, and tweak the intake I can get more out of it if I want....

I'd appreciate further comments on the motor set up and converter suggestions.

What does the higher stall converter get me in street performance anyway?
Click to expand...


I think we're losing sight on his original question..
 
Part of my point is if you tell a converter company that you are making 400hp and it's really 300 hp and the resulting lower tq with that estimate, you'll be sorely disappointed in receiving an extremely "tight" converter.

If anything, this build needs, more converter than what the advertised numbers suggest. If he wants a real 2500, he'd be smart to look at the 3000 level behind that engine.
 
To be clear, I do not dispute that the 318 I own is what it is. It has never been run, so I have no idea how much all the porting and over-sized valves ad to the performance of the heads, and what that cam really has to offer along with the Holley on the Performer. I agree with what most are posting and I will be delighted with it no matter what the real HP numbers are if it has some snot.

My first Mopar had a bone stock from the factory 318 2bbl single exhaust when I got it and it was fun! Stuck some headers and an iron intake with a TQ on that old Cuda and had fun stalking the Chevells and Novas back in the day.

So let's assume it approaches 300 HP and the 904 and the rear are stock, what do I do for the torque converter?
 
I had a warmed up small block maybe 325hp
with a 2200 B&M stall and 4.10 gear.
It would blow the tires off any time on command!
Fun to drive and did 14 mpg.
 
DusterDaddy said:
What does the higher stall converter get me in street performance anyway?
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A higher stall converter will let the engine rev into it's power band quicker and easier giving the car a much faster launch.

DusterDaddy said:
So let's assume it approaches 300 HP and the 904 and the rear are stock, what do I do for the torque converter?
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I agree with Crackedback in that you should look at something in the 3000 stall range. 318's aren't high torque engines so you need to get the RPM's up for it to really jump out of the hole good. Someone else suggested a Hughes converter and I have used them and they work real good for a lower dollar converter. If it were my car and didn't want to spend a bunch I'd look into their 3000 stall unit. With your teen it probably won't quite stall 3000 but it'll be close enough to make it launch good. If you have a couple hundred more bucks to spend a custom converter can't be beat. I run a PTC in my Cuda and it works real good. Nice thing about today's converters compared to converters of yrs. back is they don't slip much at all when you drive it easy. Nothing like the old days when they acted like you were driving a stick car and riding the clutch. Now they drive great and when you nail it they flash up to their stall speed and the car rockets off.

BTW: do you know what gears are in the rearend?
 
Mark340 said:
Not an expert here, but I think you'll be happy with a 1800-2500 range converter. I think any higher and you'll be revving it up just to get moving. Haven't heard good words on TCI hardware or customer service...Check out www.727specialis.com for a recommendation...lots of mopar tranny/converter knowledge.
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To the OP, please don't believe ANY of this....




Get a quality converter 2500-3000 range. I'd lean towards the uppper end of that range. Mine is a 3500. Last car was a 3900. You'd never know there was anything in there other than a stock unit.
 
I had good luck with Turbo Action converters, as far as off-the-shelf converters go. Bought them both from Mancini, behind a 360 built similar to your 318 they both stalled at 2900. Yours will be lower due to less torque, but it would be worth looking into and I think it would be a good match for your engine.
 
DusterDaddy said:
To be clear, I do not dispute that the 318 I own is what it is. It has never been run, so I have no idea how much all the porting and over-sized valves ad to the performance of the heads, and what that cam really has to offer along with the Holley on the Performer. I agree with what most are posting and I will be delighted with it no matter what the real HP numbers are if it has some snot.

My first Mopar had a bone stock from the factory 318 2bbl single exhaust when I got it and it was fun! Stuck some headers and an iron intake with a TQ on that old Cuda and had fun stalking the Chevells and Novas back in the day.

So let's assume it approaches 300 HP and the 904 and the rear are stock, what do I do for the torque converter?
Click to expand...

If it makes 300 HP and right now I think that that's an unknown at this time, I see no reason to get anything other than a stock converter. If it's a non lockup transmission I'd go for a common 225/318 converter with the High Stall decal on it. Check with your local Trans-Star dealer. I believe the part number is CR8H. Make sure you know if the engine is internally or externally balanced before you get any converter. If you really want to get a high stall converter, send me a pm with your home email, and I'll send you the specification sheet the High Stall company a worked for used, when a customer wanted to order a high stall. The cam shaft maker, gives you the stall they recommend for the cam that's in your engine.
Anything higher than 22-2300 RPM for this combination would be a waste of money in my opinion. If you talk to a converter builder that is interested in how his product works after the sale, most will tell you for your typical street driven vehicle, unless it's making a lot of HP, 2500 rpm is more than enough. Match the converter to your engine, rear axle ratio, and tire size. What works for some, may NOT WORK for you.My .02 worth.
 
transman said:
If it makes 300 HP and right now I think that that's an unknown at this time, I see no reason to get anything other than a stock converter. If it's a non lockup transmission I'd go for a common 225/318 converter with the High Stall decal on it. Check with your local Trans-Star dealer. I believe the part number is CR8H. Make sure you know if the engine is internally or externally balanced before you get any converter. If you really want to get a high stall converter, send me a pm with your home email, and I'll send you the specification sheet the High Stall company a worked for used, when a customer wanted to order a high stall. The cam shaft maker, gives you the stall they recommend for the cam that's in your engine.
Anything higher than 22-2300 RPM for this combination would be a waste of money in my opinion. If you talk to a converter builder that is interested in how his product works after the sale, most will tell you for your typical street driven vehicle, unless it's making a lot of HP, 2500 rpm is more than enough. Match the converter to your engine, rear axle ratio, and tire size. What works for some, may NOT WORK for you.My .02 worth.
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Transman,

You are the voice of reason. I was thinking for the way I will use this car, there is no reason to use anything other than a stock converter.
Thanks for your recommendation, and I'll look into the CR8H unit.

Thanks to all for your input
 
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