Trick Flow small block heads

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PRH said:
What’s going on in those bowls?

Welding? Epoxy?
Click to expand...


I was going to weld up the seats, move the valves over .060 or so, use a 2.150 intake...and then I came to my senses and said piss on that.

I used to be much more motivated! Today, I don't even want to grind on the vigil W2's I have on the shelf.

I'm waiting on a new, rough bored R1 block, 3.79 stroke crank and then I'll do the W2's but they won't look like that. Those heads are freaking hard, they grind like **** and I hate grinding cast iron.
 
I realy dont know how anyone can argue about the benefits of spending a few hundred dollars more to get fully cnc machined heads with better flow, top notch castings,top notch parts and A FREAKIN WARRANTY!, the rpms are not even close. As has been said these heads are not magical, they will not make your turd a protein shake.
 
It made 450 hp and 490 torque. Not bad numbers for sweet street engine. It idled super smooth with a ton of vacuum and was a very quiet and smooth engine. Should make a great cruiser for the guy. This is the first set of these heads that I'd seen. They look like they'll make a bunch of power but this was a street engine rather than a race engine.

This is the engine at Grays machine and sums it all up, nuff said.
 
lead69 said:
I realy dont know how anyone can argue about the benefits of spending a few hundred dollars more to get fully cnc machined heads with better flow, top notch castings,top notch parts and A FREAKIN WARRANTY!, the rpms are not even close. As has been said these heads are not magical, they will not make your turd a protein shake.
Click to expand...

If you have a Magnum engine, the RPM's are actually $5 a piece more for the Magnum specific head. Add porting in to the RPM's and it is not even close. I'm most certainly getting these heads when it come time, by then things should be sorted out better. As you pointed out, this will make a nice street engine that I would run myself. I think even in this engines configuration a couple of simple changes could yield some easy horsepower. Change the rocker ratio to 1.6, and the intake lift goes to .575, plus the little duration gain would not hurt. If they were not running a spacer under the EFI, that should be considered.
 
Someone will have something on the dyno that makes 600hp with those heads........ then the “panic” will subside.

I actually got a little chuckle about hearing how there were conversations with TF about what might be “wrong” with the heads.

As I said already, there are several TF headed mild BB builds on Grays Facebook page that make basically the same HP/CI as the 408 did...... and no one is giving it a second thought.
Why? Because there have already been plenty of builds where the motors made way better power using the same heads.

The panic generated from this build will disappear once a more suitable build is tested with them.

From Grays:
408 - 1.075hp/ci
505 - 1.089hp/ci
508 - 1.045hp/ci

Keep in mind...... those BB builds were done well after they had already used the TF heads to make over 1.50hp/ci.
Which just highlights the fact that no one single part is going to transform a mild combo into a fire breather....... other than maybe a nitrous kit.
 
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Bigger is not better ask any Boss 302/ 429 user most any Cleveland
LS lobes will not fit on a Mopar or BBC or SBC core
Too many xfi marketing appellation lobes none optimized for ABM BBM AFIK
 
I Dyno'd mine today! Spent yesterday getting it on the dyno stand and broken in. Made a couple 4k pulls today checking vitals, then changed the oil. This afternoon we made some 6K pulls.
I should preface this with... My main objective was break in a solid flat tappet and not max power. I'm going to be running a Holley Stealth Terminator EFI and I'm frankensteining the sniper ignition to work with the Terminator. Therefore, I didn't want to have ignition issues on first startup for fear of flattening the cam. So I wasn't tuning for perfect fuel ratio, timing curve or whatever. It's all changing anyway. We set timing at 36* and afr was 11.9-12.2 for the pulls. Also I know there is more on the table but I wasn't concerned with it, honestly. It was nerve wracking enough! Holy crap is it nerve wracking!

Also, my Dyno operator told me not to get too caught up in numbers or expectations. And that they call his Dyno "the humbler". So, some specs.

Short block:
360 based 414
4.06 bore
4.0 Molner forged crank
6.123 Molner rods
Mahle inverted dome pistons 16cc's
.276 top ring down
~ -.002-004 in the hole
10.87-10.89 compression
.040 custom Cometics
Quench .043 not sure on an inverted dome?
1,1,2mm ring pack .016 top .020 2nd gap
King bearings throughout
.002 main clearance
.0028 rod clearance
1784 bobweight
Arp main, rod and head studs
Milodon road race pan and pick up
Modded windage tray(due to stud clearance)
IJ crank scraper
Melling 72HV(used lol)
Mopar magnum one piece oil pan gasket
MP .557 cam 4* advanced at 106*
Rollmaster billet chain
MP chain tensioner
Flowkooler water pump
Side entrance rear freeze plug cooling
Trick flow balancer internal

Top end:
Howard's EDM solid lifters
Milodon valley tray
Smith Bros custom 5/16 ball/cup pushrods
Erson 1.6 roller rockers
B3re geometry correction
Billet rocker hold downs and studs
Lashed to .020/.024 hot
HD distributor gear/pump drive
A crap ton of driven assembly lube
Trick flow 190 heads
Mopar M1 modded intake (burr finish(done by me and probably a hindrance ,I'm not a pro), epoxied to square bore, back passage coolant lines.
Hvh super sucker (left on for every pull)
Autolite 3924's
A friend's msd distributor and wires
A friend's Holley 750 set up for his 408.
Mix of 91 and 112 unleaded. So 95 octane?

Results:
Dyno's onsite weather station
5200 foot elevation
90* today
25.7 in
42.3 relative
546hp/557tq corrected
Edited to reduce some of my confusion. Thanks

Lmk if I missed something.
Thanks,
Keith

IMG_20190701_135346415.jpg
 
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I didnt even check the jetting. We put it on and afrs from idle to 6k were 13ish to 11.8ish. So we just let it ride.
Also, Doug's 453 headers
 
khuebner250 said:
I Dyno'd mine today! Spent yesterday getting it on the dyno stand and broken in. Made a couple 4k pulls today checking vitals, then changed the oil. This afternoon we made some 6K pulls.
I should preface this with... My main objective was break in a solid flat tappet and not max power. I'm going to be running a Holley Stealth Terminator EFI and I'm frankensteining the sniper ignition to work with the Terminator. Therefore, I didn't want to have ignition issues on first startup for fear of flattening the cam. So I wasn't tuning for perfect fuel ratio, timing curve or whatever. It's all changing anyway. We set timing at 36* and afr was 11.9-12.2 for the pulls. Also I know there is more on the table but I wasn't concerned with it, honestly. It was nerve wracking enough! Holy crap is it nerve wracking!

Also, my Dyno operator told me not to get too caught up in numbers or expectations. And that they call his Dyno "the humbler". So, some specs.

Short block:
360 based 414
4.06 bore
4.0 Molner forged crank
6.123 Molner rods
Mahle inverted dome pistons 16cc's
.276 top ring down
~ -.002-004 in the hole
10.87-10.89 compression
.040 custom Cometics
Quench .043 not sure on an inverted dome?
1,1,2mm ring pack .016 top .020 2nd gap
King bearings throughout
.002 main clearance
.0028 rod clearance
1784 bobweight
Arp main, rod and head studs
Milodon road race pan and pick up
Modded windage tray(due to stud clearance)
IJ crank scraper
Melling 72HV(used lol)
Mopar magnum one piece oil pan gasket
MP .557 cam 4* advanced at 106*
Rollmaster billet chain
MP chain tensioner
Flowkooler water pump
Side entrance rear freeze plug cooling
Trick flow balancer internal

Top end:
Howard's EDM solid lifters
Milodon valley tray
Smith Bros custom 5/16 ball/cup pushrods
Erson 1.6 roller rockers
B3re geometry correction
Billet rocker hold downs and studs
Lashed to .020/.024 hot
HD distributor gear/pump drive
A crap ton of driven assembly lube
Trick flow 190 heads
Mopar M1 modded intake (burr finish(done by me and probably a hindrance ,I'm not a pro), epoxied to square bore, back passage coolant lines.
Hvh super sucker (left on for every pull)
Autolite 3924's
A friend's msd distributor and wires
A friend's Holley 750 set up for his 408.
Mix of 91 and 112 unleaded. So 95 octane?

Results:
Uncorrected! dyno's onsite weather station
5200 foot elevation
91* today
30 inhg
510hp/520tq

Corrected for altitude
546hp/557tq

Corrected for sea level(this seams insane)
672hp/673tq

Lmk if I missed something.
Thanks,
Keith

View attachment 1715358101
Click to expand...
Nice... We're about the same altitude. Should rip pretty good.
 
B3422w5 said:
Impressive. And with dinky headers too!
Great job
Click to expand...
Yeah. I was wanting to get to 500/500 and the Dyno operator said his dyno was stingy compared to others. There's more on the table for sure. Maybe a super Victor without the 4 hole, a bigger carb, tuned properly and some Dyno headers will put up better numbers but mines gonna be just a driver. I'm happy, just wanted to relay my findings.
 
khuebner250 said:
.............
Results:
Uncorrected! dyno's onsite weather station
5200 foot elevation
91* today
30 inhg
510hp/520tq

Corrected for altitude
546hp/557tq.............
Click to expand...

This sounds about right for what they are. Should run close to what ported Eddys run. Nice :)

khuebner250 said:
.............
Corrected for sea level(this seams insane)
672hp/673tq

.............]
Click to expand...

HAHA....eh, no, lol. Now, if you put the motor in the car and it runs mid 9's then I will retract my statement. Are you sure you didn't correct the numbers twice (correct for altitude twice, thus inflating the number).?
 
flyfish said:
Are you sure you didn't correct the numbers twice (correct for altitude twice, thus inflating the number).?
Click to expand...

I think the shop gave him those numbers. He himself even said & I agree,
Corrected for sea level(this seams insane)
672hp/673tq
Click to expand...
Even more so with the cam used. Not trashing the Purple cam, but it is t exactly huge ether.
 
According to the MP catalog;
Advertised duration 296/296
@.050 251/251
Lift w/1.5 rocker .557
Lash @ .028/.032
Centerline 110 w/76 over lap

Through out the years, the @.050 specs waver and I do not care to get into what others have found. Some say it’s bigger, some say it’s smaller.
I just say, run it with 1.6 rockers.
 
rumblefish360 said:
According to the MP catalog;
Advertised duration 296/296
@.050 251/251
Lift w/1.5 rocker .557
Lash @ .028/.032
Centerline 110 w/76 over lap

Through out the years, the @.050 specs waver and I do not care to get into what others have found. Some say it’s bigger, some say it’s smaller.
I just say, run it with 1.6 rockers.
Click to expand...

.594 with a 1.6 rocker
 
Yea man! That will help a bit I think! LOL!

Anybody!

Does Crower make a 1.65 or a 1.7 rocker for the LA?
 
Awesome, thanks for posting!
khuebner250 said:
I Dyno'd mine today! Spent yesterday getting it on the dyno stand and broken in. Made a couple 4k pulls today checking vitals, then changed the oil. This afternoon we made some 6K pulls.
I should preface this with... My main objective was break in a solid flat tappet and not max power. I'm going to be running a Holley Stealth Terminator EFI and I'm frankensteining the sniper ignition to work with the Terminator. Therefore, I didn't want to have ignition issues on first startup for fear of flattening the cam. So I wasn't tuning for perfect fuel ratio, timing curve or whatever. It's all changing anyway. We set timing at 36* and afr was 11.9-12.2 for the pulls. Also I know there is more on the table but I wasn't concerned with it, honestly. It was nerve wracking enough! Holy crap is it nerve wracking!

Also, my Dyno operator told me not to get too caught up in numbers or expectations. And that they call his Dyno "the humbler". So, some specs.

Short block:
360 based 414
4.06 bore
4.0 Molner forged crank
6.123 Molner rods
Mahle inverted dome pistons 16cc's
.276 top ring down
~ -.002-004 in the hole
10.87-10.89 compression
.040 custom Cometics
Quench .043 not sure on an inverted dome?
1,1,2mm ring pack .016 top .020 2nd gap
King bearings throughout
.002 main clearance
.0028 rod clearance
1784 bobweight
Arp main, rod and head studs
Milodon road race pan and pick up
Modded windage tray(due to stud clearance)
IJ crank scraper
Melling 72HV(used lol)
Mopar magnum one piece oil pan gasket
MP .557 cam 4* advanced at 106*
Rollmaster billet chain
MP chain tensioner
Flowkooler water pump
Side entrance rear freeze plug cooling
Trick flow balancer internal

Top end:
Howard's EDM solid lifters
Milodon valley tray
Smith Bros custom 5/16 ball/cup pushrods
Erson 1.6 roller rockers
B3re geometry correction
Billet rocker hold downs and studs
Lashed to .020/.024 hot
HD distributor gear/pump drive
A crap ton of driven assembly lube
Trick flow 190 heads
Mopar M1 modded intake (burr finish(done by me and probably a hindrance ,I'm not a pro), epoxied to square bore, back passage coolant lines.
Hvh super sucker (left on for every pull)
Autolite 3924's
A friend's msd distributor and wires
A friend's Holley 750 set up for his 408.
Mix of 91 and 112 unleaded. So 95 octane?

Results:
Uncorrected! dyno's onsite weather station
5200 foot elevation
91* today
30 inhg
510hp/520tq

Corrected for altitude
546hp/557tq

Corrected for sea level(this seams insane)
672hp/673tq

Lmk if I missed something.
Thanks,
Keith

View attachment 1715358101
Click to expand...
 
khuebner250 said:
Yeah. I was wanting to get to 500/500 and the Dyno operator said his dyno was stingy compared to others. There's more on the table for sure. Maybe a super Victor without the 4 hole, a bigger carb, tuned properly and some Dyno headers will put up better numbers but mines gonna be just a driver. I'm happy, just wanted to relay my findings.
Click to expand...


Just curious, what state was the engine dyno’d in. 5000 plus feet
 
flyfish said:
This sounds about right for what they are. Should run close to what ported Eddys run. Nice :)



HAHA....eh, no, lol. Now, if you put the motor in the car and it runs mid 9's then I will retract my statement. Are you sure you didn't correct the numbers twice (correct for altitude twice, thus inflating the number).?
Click to expand...
How would you correct for altitude twice? You have a choice of uncorrected which uses the current weather station data on hand or you can use a standard correction. And within that standard correction you can choose altitude. And to be honest, the change from 5200' to 850' isn't that much, that's why I said the sea level number was insane.
 
rumblefish360 said:
According to the MP catalog;
Advertised duration 296/296
@.050 251/251
Lift w/1.5 rocker .557
Lash @ .028/.032
Centerline 110 w/76 over lap

Through out the years, the @.050 specs waver and I do not care to get into what others have found. Some say it’s bigger, some say it’s smaller.
I just say, run it with 1.6 rockers.
Click to expand...


Yep. Know several guys who have measured it.
Comes out around 255 and change @50
 
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