Trying to Gauge Interest In Some Parts

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whitepunkonnitro

whitepunkonnitro

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I'm working with a local machine shop on a couple of different projects, and the subject of Slants came up this morning. There are two items we are considering making prototypes of. One is an adapter to mount a Carter BBD on the standard one barrel intake (stock single barrel opening has more area than combined barrels of BBD, so there is no restriction), and the other is a set of billet aluminum main caps for all out applications.
Give me some feedback on this stuff...worth the effort? What's a good price? Etc.
We're also open to any suggestions you guys might have for other parts or adapters that might fill a void.
 
An exhaust manifold to a standard turbo flange would be very popular, but perhaps not the type of fab you are considering.

A bracket to mount a Sanden AC compressor would be popular. There are some already for ~$240 (Nostalgic Air) so you would have to beat that. Would have to work with pwr steering and maybe turbo above. Also, many early slants have just a single crank pulley though later engines can be robbed.
 
whitepunkonnitro said:
I'm working with a local machine shop on a couple of different projects, and the subject of Slants came up this morning. There are two items we are considering making prototypes of. One is an adapter to mount a Carter BBD on the standard one barrel intake (stock single barrel opening has more area than combined barrels of BBD, so there is no restriction), and the other is a set of billet aluminum main caps for all out applications.
Give me some feedback on this stuff...worth the effort? What's a good price? Etc.
We're also open to any suggestions you guys might have for other parts or adapters that might fill a void.
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Some things to consider when making that adapter. Its going to affect the kick down linkage/choke/air cleaner clearance to hood just to name a few. I'm gonna do some measuring but it appears that the combined area of the opennings on the 2 barrel intakes is > than the one barrel. :poke:
Still its great to see interest in these slants! good luck!
 
Billet main caps should be steel, NOT aluminum. Aluminum would cause more problems than it would solve. I might be in for a set of billet steel main caps, although there are guys making serious power with the stockers.
 
2BBL to 1bbl adaptors are already commercially available and are a very very bad idea. There are 2 proper ways to mount a 2bbl to a slant. Buy a 2bbl intake or cut a larger hole into a factory 1bbl intake, mount a 2bbl flange to the top of the modified intake and now you have a 2bbl intake. Usually when they are modified from 1 to 2bbl the carb sits sideways (compared to normal) with the throttle shaft facing front to rear instead of tranversely.

And I agree a turbo exhaust header would be plenty popular. Make sure it clears factory intakes, power steering pumps, and will fit the short deck 170.
 
I would love to see a somewhat available turbo manifold either a flange to bolt to the factory manifold or a custom manifold. I can't weld so it makes it difficult for me to get one.
 
Turbo Slant adapter sounds like a winner here. I'll do a little research and see what the feasability is. Again, any pics of home fabbed pieces would be a big help.
 
BillGrissom said:
A bracket to mount a Sanden AC compressor would be popular. There are some already for ~$240 (Nostalgic Air) so you would have to beat that. Would have to work with pwr steering and maybe turbo above. Also, many early slants have just a single crank pulley though later engines can be robbed.
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I have had these brackets available for a couple of years. The one shown at nostalgic air does not fit well on an "A" body. They used to sell the same one I designed, which fits the "A" body (we went in on it together. my design and their money). I have contracted with another fab shop to build them, and should have them available, again, in a few weeks. Recieved the pototype last week, but it needs a couple of "tweeks". see here.
http://www.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=50744
 
whitepunkonnitro said:
We're also open to any suggestions you guys might have for other parts or adapters that might fill a void.
Click to expand...

This slant six turbo mount has a lot going for it and could be manufactured for very little money, I think.

It has the advantage of not requiring any welding on the cast iron manifold itself (a BIG advantage since those stock manifolds crack for no reason at all, and welding on them just makes it more likely that they will crack.) It fits an A body like a glove.

It's truly a "bolt-on."

All you need are two flanges (one to bolt to the manifold and a turbo mounting flange to weld to the other end,) and a piece of "J" pipe, 2.50" in diameter with a short-radius bend in it (about 180 degrees.) The picture says it all.

This was designed my FABO member PISHTA. Talk to him for particulars...

What do you think???
 

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Looks like a nice, sanitary installation. As far as manufacturing it though, it looks like something more suited to an exhaust shop than what I have available to me right now.
 
whitepunkonnitro said:
Looks like a nice, sanitary installation. As far as manufacturing it though, it looks like something more suited to an exhaust shop than what I have available to me right now.
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Well, I'm sure you're right (that an exhaust shop could make this piece) but a band-saw (or cut-off wheel) and a welder is probably all tht you'd need to "manufacture" this item. Build a jig for the original, and you could turn them out on a wholesale basis. I can't imagine that you have the capability of manufaacturing other parts for sale and don'have access to a welder and a band-saw.

I think it really IS that simple.

What am I missing? I believe that there really IS a market for these things....

Thanks for your response.:cheers:
 
Bill Dedman said:
Well, I'm sure you're right (that an exhaust shop could make this piece) but a band-saw (or cut-off wheel) and a welder is probably all tht you'd need to "manufacture" this item. Build a jig for the original, and you could turn them out on a wholesale basis. I can't imagine that you have the capability of manufaacturing other parts for sale and don'have access to a welder and a band-saw.

I think it really IS that simple.

What am I missing? I believe that there really IS a market for these things....

Thanks for your response.:cheers:
Click to expand...

There is a market for that piece, and I am aware of what it would take to produce it. I could go in my garage right now and duplicate it...no problem!
What I have right now is a friend with a CNC set-up that is wanting to make one or two piece assemblies with his current equippment. Something to fill in the dead spots between his regular work
He has no tubing bender or welder, just the CNC machines. If it was possible to fabricate an adapter for this application out of a single piece of steel or aluminum, trust me, we'd be in his shop tonight working on a prototype!
I hope that makes things clearer.
 
whitepunkonnitro said:
There is a market for that piece, and I am aware of what it would take to produce it. I could go in my garage right now and duplicate it...no problem!
What I have right now is a friend with a CNC set-up that is wanting to...


If it was possible to fabricate an adapter for this application out of a single piece of steel or aluminum, trust me, we'd be in his shop tonight working on a prototype!
I hope that makes things clearer.
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Well, there's more than one way to skin a cat.

Hear me out on this, please; there may be a way to meet most, if not all, of the requirements of this operation by changing some of its parameters.

Consider this: Your friend can't weld or bend pipe. So, we take those two elements out of the formula.

Instead of providing the customer with a finished product, you sell him a "kit" that consists of three pieces; a J-bend piece of 2.5" pipe that you can buy and simply cut to the required length on both ends (chop saw, band saw, or whatever,) and two flanges that will be CNC manufactured to the necessary specs by your friend and his machines.

The customer will get a three-piece "kit" that he will weld (or, have welded to these flanges,) and that is ALL he will have to do; weld the flanges onto the J-pipe that will be cut to the proper length and angle by YOU.

Obtaining and cutting that J-bend pipe to the right length and angle, and packing and shipping the three items will be the sum total of your physical involvement in the manufacture of this item. Reference marks , provided by you, will ensure that the pipe and flanges are welded together at the correct relationship to ensure proper fitment.

The customer is guaranteed of a properly-fitting component because PISHTA has done all the homework on fitment issues; his turbo is in an A-body chassis, with the engine in the stock location, and should not have ergonomic issues with any other A-body engine compartments.

You (and your friend) are guaranteed of a manufacturing process to build this "kit" that will require NO pipe-bending nor welding, (the two processes that were not within your and your friend's collective capability.)

In order to make this turbo-install exercise as user-friendly as possible, it will fall to YOU to familiarize youself with the small variety of turbocharger mounting flange configurations (three-bolt, or four-bolt, for example) so that the buyer can specify which configuration he'll need to make this truly a bolt-on item, once the small amount of welding is done.

I am not very well-educated about the types of turbo-mount setups there are out there, but I'd guess that there are probably only four of five different ones (if that, even) you'd need to make, to have the field covered for slant six applications. A Three-bolt, a Four-bolt, and a Buick (proprietary configuration with an integral waste-gate) would be a good start and those three would probably cover 90-percent of the turbos being used.

You could buy one of each of these flanges and use them to make the programs for the CNC machine and start cranking them out from some half-inch mild steel )or, whatever is an appropriate material.) I am pretty sure that aluminum will not work in this killer-heat environment. It would be nice if it would, but I'm afraid it woudn't stand up to all those BTU's.

The flange that would bolt to the exhaust manifold outlet might be a "one size fits all" item, but you'd need to research that problem to see if you'd need to CNC more than one size, and configuration. I'd bet that two different flange-designs would cover pretty much all of that part of the operation.

Not having to bend any pipe, or weld anything at all, should greatly reduce the time required to produce this "kit" as the J-bends you'd need are readily available, and your friend will be making the flanges.

I think that it would be a nice touch to include all the nuts, bolts, washers and gaskets necessary to install this piece, in the "kit." I believe there are probably only two turbo-flange mount gaskets, at most...

So, there you have it; a two-item CNC exercise, no welding nor any pipe bending at all...

And, I will buy the first one.... guaranteed!!!:blob:
 
Not trying to add fuel, but I agree with the OP that the J-pipe adaptor setup is likely not the kind of project to get involved with. It sounds like he is looking for something small and machined. All the components are already available to make a J-pipe for a turbo. A complete turbo header is the unfilled product. If the end user has to weld it together themselves then why should they go to the OP to get the parts when they could just as easily buy them from a vendor themselves. And there are many varibles found in slant powered cars such as power steering, 170 vs 225, turbo size, or k-member clearance that would require the OP to have access to multiple cars for test fitting purposes.

Here is a quickly found source of pipe and flanges. I only performed 1 search without any price comparisons. Cut to length needed with hacksaw and weld on flanges, done.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/vpe-2605/overview/

http://www.treadstoneperformance.com/view.phtml?f_cat=Turbo+Flanges

I am in the process of building a turbo header for my valiant. It will be a short tube setup that I hope will take up only slightly more room than the factory manifold. It will be an all stainless tig welded unit made from weld els (in the treadstone link) and schedule 30 304 stainless pipe. The header flange is available on ebay in 1/2" mild steel or 304 stainless.
 
mcnoople said:
Not trying to add fuel, but I agree with the OP that the J-pipe adaptor setup is likely not the kind of project to get involved with. It sounds like he is looking for something small and machined. All the components are already available to make a J-pipe for a turbo. A complete turbo header is the unfilled product. If the end user has to weld it together themselves then why should they go to the OP to get the parts when they could just as easily buy them from a vendor themselves. And there are many varibles found in slant powered cars such as power steering, 170 vs 225, turbo size, or k-member clearance that would require the OP to have access to multiple cars for test fitting purposes.

Here is a quickly found source of pipe and flanges. I only performed 1 search without any price comparisons. Cut to length needed with hacksaw and weld on flanges, done.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/vpe-2605/overview/

http://www.treadstoneperformance.com/view.phtml?f_cat=Turbo+Flanges

I am in the process of building a turbo header for my valiant. It will be a short tube setup that I hope will take up only slightly more room than the factory manifold. It will be an all stainless tig welded unit made from weld els (in the treadstone link) and schedule 30 304 stainless pipe. The header flange is available on ebay in 1/2" mild steel or 304 stainless.
Click to expand...

I have to agree with you; the reasons for NOT doing this project seem to outweigh the reasons for doing it.

I thought that the CNC method of manufacturing the flanges would have the advantage of incorporating a configuration that would include a mounting "sleeve" that would encompass the J-pipe on both ends that would make the welding process easier (ostensibly, the J-pipe would already be cut to the correct length for the application and would just slide into the flange-sleeve, be rotated to the correct angle [supplied by reference marks, put on at the point of manufacture] and welded with no measuring, trial-and-error cutting and fitting necessary, a time-saving measure for the customer.) The J-pipe would, of course, already have been cut to the correct length by the "kit" provider.

This mounting-advantage afforded by the "sleeve" is unique, and not available on any of the readily-obtainable flanges that I know of. The "sleeve" would only have to be 1/2"-deep, or so, to be effective, but would need to be on both of the J-pipe flanges for the most advantageous usage.

Not trying to knock holes in YOUR argument, because I believe that it is a very good one, but I am not sure that the situations you mentioned insofar as requiring different physical combinations are all valid. For instance, the K-members are only going to vary insofar as height, I believe, with 170 engines having less vertical room than 198 and 225 motors. It is arguable, though, as to whether a "170 kit" would even be necessary, seeing as how most folks would agree that a normally-aspirated 225 can make about as much power as a turbo'd 170, and is a whole lot easier to build. I do agree that the power steering issue is likely to be a sticky one in terms of fitment, and would surely be problematic, with time spent getting the right length on the J-pipe a factor, and probably more... It may be that this "kit" idea just won't work at all on power-steering equipped cars... we'd have to ask PISHTA on that one.

Depending on the customer's own fabrication skills, this "kit" might or might not being a good idea, on second-thought.

The flanges, themselves, might be small enough to appeal to the friend of the OP, as a manufacturing project and when the advantage of the "sleeve" (with a shoulder at the bottom, to preclude over-insertion of the J-pipe and the reference marks to ensure correct orientation, with no time wasted (by the customer) on ascertaining proper placement of the J-pipe, prior to welding, and no time spent on internet searches and the time spent dealing with several parts sources to build your own "kit"... if your time is worth anything at all to you, this "kit" might have a fighting chance as a way to go... after all, the CNC flanges should cost less to manufacture (and therefore could be sold for less, as part and parcel of the "kit." than the ones off e-bay or from another supplier.)

But, overall, you're probably right; it's probably a bad idea...

We built our own header (on a different subject, now,) and spent a cool $1,000.00 doing it, since we had to pay someone else to weld it and had to take it 130 miles (one way) to get it coated (two round-trips at a time when gas was about $4.00/gal.) I am very much interested in both your engine and your header. Could you post some pictures, please? We're new at this so, are (obviously) still learning. Pictures help... a lot.

Thanks a lot for your insightful, pertinent, comments and your interest!!!
 
I'm ordereing the header flange next week, after it comes in I order the weld els and pipe. I plan on something similar to the one in this thread http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=212272

but I want the turbo closer to the engine so I am planning a "log" style header. My goal is the have the turbo flange beneath the heat riser in the intake manifold. No coating required since it is heavy wall stainless. I will do my own welding. I am planning to install a heat shield on the top and bottom of the header to control some radiant heat.

When I actually do start the process I will take lots of pictures and post them. There used to be a video on youtube of someone making a turbo slant six header out of schedule 40 black steel weld els. The video was removed quite some time ago. I wish I had downloaded a copy of it.
 
mcnoople said:
I'm ordereing the header flange next week, after it comes in I order the weld els and pipe. I plan on something similar to the one in this thread http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=212272

but I want the turbo closer to the engine so I am planning a "log" style header. My goal is the have the turbo flange beneath the heat riser in the intake manifold. No coating required since it is heavy wall stainless. I will do my own welding. I am planning to install a heat shield on the top and bottom of the header to control some radiant heat.

When I actually do start the process I will take lots of pictures and post them. There used to be a video on youtube of someone making a turbo slant six header out of schedule 40 black steel weld els. The video was removed quite some time ago. I wish I had downloaded a copy of it.
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I think you're on the right track with your header design, with regard to kepping the pipes short and the turbo close to the engine. If we ever build another header, it will feature that design.

You're lucky that you have the capability to weld your own stainless steel pieces. That gives you more flexibility and time to work with, plus it's lots cheaper.

We'll appreciate the pictures a lot!:glasses7:

Will your car be carbureted, or have some sort of fuel injection? I'm very much interested in this build. I'm sure I'm not alone.

Good luck with it!!!:cheers:
 
I will be building the turbo header and fitting it up with carb, but I don't think I will ever run it with a carb. I am also collecting all the pieces for MPI using a megasquirt to run fuel and spark (likely ford edis). I will be building the turbo header around a factory intake, but I am considering making an intake as well. Currently I am focusing on frame reinforcements on the car while I am at the car. The header will be a work side project. I can bolt the header flange and an intake to a spare head and do the pipe fitting at work without too much trouble and then take it home to weld it together.

These are all things I have thought about for years, but the straw that broke this camels back was the fact that I picked up a brand new ac/dc hobart tig welder for $450 in october. It was a theft recovered unit that insurance had paid out on so the state police sold it at auction.
 
mcnoople said:
I will be building the turbo header and fitting it up with carb, but I don't think I will ever run it with a carb. I am also collecting all the pieces for MPI using a megasquirt to run fuel and spark (likely ford edis). I will be building the turbo header around a factory intake, but I am considering making an intake as well. Currently I am focusing on frame reinforcements on the car while I am at the car. The header will be a work side project. I can bolt the header flange and an intake to a spare head and do the pipe fitting at work without too much trouble and then take it home to weld it together.

These are all things I have thought about for years, but the straw that broke this camels back was the fact that I picked up a brand new ac/dc hobart tig welder for $450 in october. It was a theft recovered unit that insurance had paid out on so the state police sold it at auction.
Click to expand...

Here are a few pictures of our header. My partner, Freddie built it with no previous experience nor any help from me. He's 75 years old (I'm only 74...) and had never built a header before, and can't weld. He cut all the pieces and adhesive taped them together and took the assembly to a welder. Not bad for a first effort, I'd say.

There were problems with the wastegate port location. It was far enough back that it only got signals from three pipes, so we had to move it to the area closer to the turbo where the 0-2 bung was welded in, and move that bung to the downpipe, where it should have been in the first place.

I love it that you got such a screamin' deal on that T.I.G. machine! How VERY cool!!!

Fuel injection may be the way to go, but I had some experience with a blow-thru carb on my supercharged Valiant and like it, so we have that for now.

Tuning is definitely tough, though... lots of R & D time...

Good luck with your project! Remember, A Bodies rule!!!! :cheers:
 

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