TTI Shorty Headers VS Doug's Long tube headers??

[4spd340Swinger]

I have a 408 Stroker with the aluminum heads on order from Blueprint for my 69 340 Dart and they stressed that I really need headers. I have never owned a car with headers before. Cost aside, what are you opinions on the Doug's (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/dou-d453) and the TTI Shorty's (https://www.ttiexhaust.com/TTi34025.htm). My main concerns are ease of installation and clearances. The car is also a 4speed. Whatever I buy will be polished & ceramic coated. Looking for your experiences as anything from stock is new to me. Thanks

 

[Inertia]

You spent a lotta money for horsepower.
You'd lose a lotta h/p with shorties, no scavenging etc.
Doug's long tubes for all my builds, folks pay me to make power .
Google TTI rust issues, I stopped using them back 2000.
jmo
Good luck .

 

[Locomotion]

I'm pretty sure that Dougs and TTI full headers have the same pipe routing. However, TTIs step up from 1 5/8" to 1 3/4" which would help HP a bit over the straight tube Dougs.

 

[dano]

I have them with both a stock 4 speed set up and now a TKO. I have used them with stock and now Speed Master heads. Fit to both was fine. If you have a manual steering box things will be fine. For me, when I added power steering is when things got messy. Shims were required to clear the PS box and removal of the steering coupler for a universal joint isn't uncommon if you don't want to dent the headers. The stock Z-bar will have to be modified to work, they tell you want to do. The area for it to work in in the header is tight. I ended up shimming over the zbar to line it all up.

 

[Slantsix64]

Neither if you have a regular sized front tire and front end height use summit brand headers just install my second set this time on a 68 barracuda with a 4 speed and a 340! Running a 205 70 15 front tire the clearance is great starter install is very easy, and the flanges are 3/8 thick,

But if your running a 205 60 or 215 60 series tire you probably would need headers that cost more and tuck in

 

[4spd340Swinger]

I'm using tti shorties on my 408 stroker with an x-pipe and flowmaster 40's. 2 -1/2 " pipe front to back.

You will give up a little hp at higher rpm but if your car is mostly street driven, it wont make much of a difference.

The best thing with a 4-speed is how tight you can keep the exhaust to the floor pan. No collector scraping .

Also, love the easier access and clearance to the rest of the engine.

I have had long tubes and would never go back to them, except maybe for a track car.

Absolutely love the shorties!

It will mainly be a street car but will go on track 3-4 times a year.

 

[Kendog 170]

Neither if you have a regular sized front tire and front end height use summit brand headers just install my second set this time on a 68 barracuda with a 4 speed and a 340! Running a 205 70 15 front tire the clearance is great starter install is very easy, and the flanges are 3/8 thick,

What Part # header? Do they hang low?

 

[abodyjoe]

everything is a comprimise... shorties will sarcrifice some performance.. will you even notice? i doubt it.. i know the tti fit awesome with an automatic. can't say on a 4 speed though...if its not a shotie, tti or dougs its gonna hang low.

 

[B3422w5]

Doug’s don’t hang low. The Doug’s D453 is the way I would go, really nice headers and fit good, to me, better than the TTI’s. I have had both

 

[abodyjoe]

Just curious...

Were you running an automatic or 4-speed transmission?

Every pic I saw of them (TTi included) showed the driver side pipes lower than normal clearance which I didn't want.

tti and dougs are the only (non shorty) ones that tuck up. hooker, headman,flowtech and all the others hang low as hell.

 

[Kendog 170]

What about power steering with shorty's? I thought it was no but not sure.

 

[B3422w5]

Just curious...

Were you running an automatic or 4-speed transmission?

Every pic I saw of them (TTi included) showed the driver side pipes lower than normal clearance which I didn't want.

Automatic’s
Both headers go over the drag link

 

[340six]

tti and dougs are the only (non shorty) ones that tuck up. hooker, headman,flowtech and all the others hang low as hell.

All the ones i installed the Driver side will pass threw the headers. And even the pass side is low, on Hooker, Headman, Summit.

 

[abodyjoe]

Even the pass side is low

pass side of what?

 

[340six]

pass side of what?

Of the common Hooker, Headman, Summit style header. The drivers side is real low, but Pass Side is lower than i would want for everyday street car use.
That's 15" wheels
I will go get a tape measure for height.

 

[72bluNblu]

I have installed both the Dougs D453's and TTI shorties on my Duster. At the time it was a 340/4 speed with manual steering, and having done that I would install the Doug's long tube D453's every time.

• The TTI shorties still need the modified Z-bar for the manual transmission that you need for the Dougs or TTI long tubes
• Compared to the Doug's, the TTI's save less than 3/8" of ground clearance
• The TTI shorties required more trimming on the corner of the bell housing for clearance than the Dougs did
• The TTI shorties need the 90° oil filter adaptor or a factory oil plate with a VERY short oil filter, despite their advertising. They did not clear my ps-2004 filter with a Canton oil plate

I tried the TTI's shorties to add ground clearance and improve some of the tight clearance spots I had with my Doug's, but the ground clearance improvement was minimal and the clearance really didn't improve. There were some spots that had better clearance with the TTI shorties, but there were also some spots that were actually worse. So it was just trading tight spots in some places for tight spots in other places. So ultimately I took the TTI's off my car and kept the Doug's on it, and I wouldn't buy a set of TTI shorties again.

I did a write up on it in my build thread here

My "new" '74 Duster- or why I need a project like a hole in the head

 

[72bluNblu]

Here's a shot from the rear of my car.

I can't speak about any other setup but I did not need a modified Z-Bar for the A-833 4-Speed I am using. Being totally transparent though , I am using an AlterKation front K Member . When I ordered the 4-speed conversion kit from Brewers, I did not mention it so I do not think it made any difference. Also, engine location is the same .

No trimming of the bellhousing needed.

I can easily install a short oil filter without 90 degree adapter. (again, maybe because of the RMS System)

My car has the USCT Frame connectors and you cannot see the exhaust system as its hidden behind them.

I'm thinking this is more than a 3/8 difference as I have never scraped the underside components of the car , ever since mods were done. The long tube headers I used (Hedman) were notorious for hitting angled driveways etc..

To be accurate, I am using a Magnum engine and had a 340 in it previously.

Not trying to blow wind up your skirt but I realize you know way more about suspensions than I do so maybe there's a reason for this I don't know about.



View attachment 1716266839

Just to show how low I actually got my car, here it is parked next to my Brother's 2007 Mustang Shelby GT 500.



View attachment 1716266845

Hedman’s go under the steering link, Doug’s do not, so Doug’s are already much higher than Hedman’s. I literally measured my car before and after with the Doug’s compared to the TTI shorties, the difference was less than 3/8”. Ground clearance was my main reason for installing the TTI’s shorties and they’re simply not worth it for that reason alone. And I run my car quite low, a good 2” lower than stock.

As for the rest of it, you can look at the pictures in my thread. The TTI head pipes wouldn’t even bolt on without trimming the stock 833 bellhousing I had, and it had already been trimmed slightly for the Doug’s.

The shorty filter was also a no go with the Canton oil plate. It likely would have cleared with a stock plate, but your header is going to be right up against the oil filter unless it’s a VERY short filter, the PS2004 I run is already substantially shorter than most LA filters.

My understanding was the TTI shorties also needed the modified Z bar like both the TTI long tubes and the Doug’s. I might be wrong about that, I already had the modified Z for my Doug’s and it would have cleared fine.

The fit and finish on the TTI’s was also lower quality than the Doug’s, which I covered in my thread. Given the price of the TTI shorties with the required head pipes, they’re just not worth it vs the long tubes IMHO, since they will also be a performance loss compared to the long tubes.

 

[go-fish]

TTi Shorties hands down.

 

[go-fish]

Nice!

 

[rumblefish360]

I have a 408 Stroker with the aluminum heads on order from Blueprint for my 69 340 Dart and they stressed that I really need headers. I have never owned a car with headers before. Cost aside, what are you opinions on the Doug's (Doug's Headers D453 Doug's Headers | Summit Racing) and the TTI Shorty's (https://www.ttiexhaust.com/TTi34025.htm). My main concerns are ease of installation and clearances. The car is also a 4speed. Whatever I buy will be polished & ceramic coated. Looking for your experiences as anything from stock is new to me. Thanks

TTI, 1-3/4 - 1-7/8, Long tube headers.
If you’re using a high quality high flow muffler, 2-1/2 will do.

Shorty headers are a waste of time, money and power.
The smaller header @ 1-5/8 chokes power up top a lot.
Small tube header is a waste of time, money and power.

Ease of install?

No such thing. Get over it. Your going to curse and scream while inventing new cuss words.

The TTI tube number 7 is a PIA until you get it done and the. Your going to want to shoot yourself repeatedly when you realize how you went about it wrongly and it becomes simple once you have done it.

I suggest a TTI exhaust and for a max power output, a straight through muffler.

Hooker Aerochambers are a very good chambered muffler for this.
Hooker/Dynomax/Borla - etc… have straight through sound absorption mufflers/glass packs but with a big body for more sound control, are the winner in power making & the only mufflers I’d consider @ 2-1/2 with your engine.

Get the long big tube TTI headers and stop fooling around.
You’ll be happy in the end.

 

[mopardude318]

Sure wish someone made a good quality truck header. Hedman Elites, which are pretty nice, are on back order for several months. Had them on order long long time ago. Still nothin. Wonder if they are going to be discontinued?

 

[rumblefish360]

Agree totally if you are installing them on an automatic equipped car. They are well tucked up to the subframe. However, when installed on a 4-speed car its a different story with ground clearance, especially the driver side.

Same header, less ground clearance in a manual trans car vs an automatic.

Bullshit

Shortys will not perform as well as long tubes in higher rpms so if your major use is street driving , not racing and ground clearance is an issue for you , the shorties win hands down on a street driven car.

They, shorty headers, provide less torque. That is essentially what a street car is looking for.

I can only reference my 68 Cuda, not other cars but I've had stock manifolds, long tube headers and now, shorties. My car runs mid 11's which I consider great for my setup and I can drive it anywhere without having to worry about scraping collectors. Also agree that TTi as a brand are excellent. I spoke in length with the people there before getting my full system from them and followed their recommendations.

As a side note, ever see the " Exhaust manifolds " on a 880 hp Demon??

Look familiar??

Comparing a modern car to old cars is smudging the whole thread as comparing todays tech to yesteryears cars is not an apple to Apple comparison. Your moving the goal post and blurring the issues.

This is bullshit.

Next you’ll being in the FAST guys running 11’s with exhaust manifolds as proof that exhaust manifolds can perform when anyone that knows a little something knows that the engine would seriously wake up with headers.

You have selectively choose items as to dispel other things as myth or bad. You’re blueing the facts and championing lies. Sorry to see you hate facts. Your post is loaded with them and I can now label you as a lier and/or a know nothing idiot.

Do not speak to me.

 

[Super-Cuda]

Sorry 4-Speed 340 Swinger,

I didn't mean to turn your thread into a shitshow.

I thought you may wanted to know what other people were using and how they liked their particular setup.

My fault for going off topic.

I'll bow out of this one.