Tuff to Start

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Brenda65

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I have a 1979 Chrysler Cordoba (slant 6 ) that gets very tricky to get started in the colder months (combination of cranking too long not wearing out my battery- which was replaced in September with tune up knowing how cold weather treats me). So, I have a strong battery in it, which I even keep on a charger at times. I have read where the slant 6 can be very tempermental at times, mine falls in this category for sure!

My car has always been tuff and tempermental to start (even was that way for my great aunt- she gave me the car). I don’t have much money to throw at trying to trouble shoot and guess at this car. I normally have to really pump on the gas while cranking it to get it to turn over and catch for me. At times, im under the hood with starting fluid as well. Does anyone have other suggestions to help make my cold starts a little easier on me?

Thanks

Brenda
 
Could the catylatic (spelling) converter be getting plugged?
 
1. weak spark.
2. choke not closing .
3. low fuel pressure .
4. Carb internal concern ( leaking down ).
5. sucking air in fuel system
 
Just how cold are we talking?

The "later" smog carbs were very bad, but it should at least FIRE

My Grandfather used to start his 75 Dart slant, on about a 30 degree F day:

Floorboard throttle, this sets the choke

Crank engine, usually fires in about 3--8 seconds, "might run." Usually does

Put car in gear, might die, I'd guess about 20-30% of time. This is after 20? seconds of run time.

Floor throttle TWICE, as this pumps more fuel. Restart, cranks 2--8 seconds, and runs.

Let run (because now you say !DOH! for at least 1/2 minute

How old are the ignition parts, plug wires, cap / rotor? Plugs?

Has anyone checked cranking spark?

Does car set long periods, IE two weeks or more, with battery going low?

What shape is the engine? Mileage? burn oil? compression?

As with "the other thread" which is similar, check choke for freedom of movement, and check cold......................

Before cranking when it has been setting and is COLD, pull the air filter and watch the choke. Take your hand and smoothly floorboard throttle once and release. Choke should freely snap shut and throttle should return to "fast idle" cam.
 
67Dart273 said:
Just how cold are we talking?

Was below 0 F here last week.

Floorboard throttle, this sets the choke

Holding the pedal on the floor does not get it started, I have to be pumping it while cranking it

Crank engine, usually fires in about 3--8 seconds, "might run." Usually does

I could only wish for about 3-8 seconds. I get into looong cranking spells losing battery kick

Floor throttle TWICE, as this pumps more fuel. Restart, cranks 2--8 seconds, and runs.

NEVER do I get away with pumping twice, I wish


How old are the ignition parts, plug wires, cap / rotor? Plugs?

Tuned in September

Has anyone checked cranking spark?

Tuned in September

Does car set long periods, IE two weeks or more, with battery going low?

Daily driven

What shape is the engine? Mileage? burn oil? compression?

176,000 miles
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I answered your questions above...your help is most appreciated sweetie.
 
"I have to be pumping it while cranking"...... Carb issue , sucking air in fuel line , fuel pump .... restriction in fuel line ... dirt in tank etc...
 
Welcome to the site, Brenda, you'll find lotsa friendly help, and knowledge here..

When was the last tune-up,, if you don't know,, start there,,

Remove and replace plugs if nec,, post pics of plugs here,, "reading" the plugs can greatly help us, help you..
 
inertia said:
Welcome to the site, Brenda, you'll find lotsa friendly help, and knowledge here..

When was the last tune-up,, if you don't know,, start there,,

Remove and replace plugs if nec,, post pics of plugs here,, "reading" the plugs can greatly help us, help you..
Click to expand...

All of that was done in September during tune up i had done....
 
Well, If your tune up is fresh, a lotta folks including myself,, found an HEI (high energy ignition) kit supplied by member Trailbeast, signifigantly improved cold starts and general running.. That may be a way to go,, but others will have different opinions,.

67Dart273 is always helpful in these matters.. he'll likely be along shortly

I'm sure others will have ideas as well..

hope it helps

PS,, does it start immediately when you use starting fluid ??
 
inertia said:
Well, If your tune up is fresh, a lotta folks including myself,, found an HEI (high energy ignition) kit supplied by member Trailbeast, signifigantly improved cold starts and general running.. That may be a way to go,, but others will have different opinions,.

67Dart273 is always helpful in these matters.. he'll likely be along shortly

I'm sure others will have ideas as well..

hope it helps

PS,, does it start immediately when you use starting fluid ??
Click to expand...

Not always with the starting fluid no. Sometimes with starting fluid and still a marathon on the pedal.
 
That leads me to believe it may not be a fuel issue,, but prob a weak spark issue, which mopar are kinda known for,, and perhaps that kit I mentioned may be the cure,, but wait for other knowledgeable folks to add their thoughts,,

hope it helps.
 
inertia said:
That leads me to believe it may not be a fuel issue,, but prob a weak spark issue, which mopar are kinda known for,, and perhaps that kit I mentioned may be the cure,, but wait for other knowledgeable folks to add their thoughts,,

hope it helps.
Click to expand...

I think the carb is getting gas because at times i must admit i can smell it when I really have to crank and crank to get it started. I admit- in those instances I probably over pump the pedal some because it seems thats the only way it is goona fire and catch if that makes sense?

I just recall my aunt have problems too with it, so i know its not just me with this damn car....
 
Here's what I would do

These cars seem to have developed problems, sometimes, that defy...............

Very first thing, is after a "cold sit" before you crank it at all, go out, look down the carb, use a flashlight is need be, and work the throttle a couple of times. You may have to do this on different days before this is conclusive.

Pay attention to what you are doing...........the accelerator pump should IMMEDIATELY start a stream of fuel as you open the throttle. In fact you might make this test after the engine has been running awhile so that you know what to expect.

Also when cold, inspect the choke linkage. When cold, and having not touched the throttle, work the throttle once, and the choke should snap right shut.

If it does NOT, you may have something like a fuel vent problem. I don't have books that new, only up to 76, but what I'm getting at is these fuel systems are "sealed" up to the pressure / vacuum release point of the fuel cap. If it has the wrong fuel cap or if the cap is all gummed up, the tank may be cooling down and creating a vacuum, pulling fuel back. Try pulling the cap off and listen for air being released or drawn in, or leave the cap unsealed overnight to see if that affects the problem

Please check or have someone check the spark. You can buy spark gap type spark testers at the store. You want to "rig" it with a solid core wire, as a resistor wire -- even a coil wire-- will deteriorate the test. Right out of the coil, it should generate a nice fat blue spark at least 38" or 1/2" long. Test this by cranking the engine using the key.

176,000? That's a LOT of miles on one of these old girls, I would run a compression test, and or a leak down test. Inspect the plugs, they may be fouling
 
LoL. Starting most carbureted cars from a cold sleep is a PITA. I have noted the first couple of pumps on the gas pedal do not produce a spray of fuel. Fuel bowl dry? accelerator pumps dry? Could be. If the car hasn't been run in a few days I go into the crank in burst and pump routine until the car starts or I smell gas. Then I continue to crank while holding the accelerator open. Usually it lights right off if it hasn't already. IHO, the problem is fuel evaporation out of the carburetor, drain back down the fuel line, and crappy "nitrogen enriched" gasoline. This sort of thing was going on back in the day, so I don't think ethanol is the culprit per se.
 
I have a question.
Does it sometimes kick over, or act like it wants to start when you let go of the key?
If it does, then it is a weak spark problem and the HEI kit will take care of that.

My own car has an electric fuel pump which assures the carb is full of fuel before I ever turn the key to the start position, and runs HEI ignition.
It fires off almost immediately no matter the tempurature. (9 degrees F was the coldest so far) and I had not started it for 3 days before that.
 
^^^^ I almost mentioned this. "In a previous life" I had a Mopar small block in my beat up old Landcruiser. In it's later part of it's life, it was pretty much a "sometime" rig and snowplow, and would sit for weeks, months. Heck, I'd turn the key, let the pump run for 5 seconds and that thing would crank right up.
 
67Dart273 said:
^^^^ I almost mentioned this. "In a previous life" I had a Mopar small block in my beat up old Landcruiser. In it's later part of it's life, it was pretty much a "sometime" rig and snowplow, and would sit for weeks, months. Heck, I'd turn the key, let the pump run for 5 seconds and that thing would crank right up.
Click to expand...

Since I have a Eddie carb the empty fuel bowl problem was even worse than with a stock carb.
Eddies don't hold a lot of fuel, and it can go away pretty fast, especially in hot weather.
 
Regardless if all the fuel checks are OK, since you are getting fuel (due to the smell) you likely have a weak spark condition, and it sounds like this may be a problem with the ballast bypass in the ignition switch (which I assume still existed in the '79's). That is part of the ignition switch......Edit to add: it is part of the starter solenoid on some cars.... I can't recall at the moment where it is in the Dodges....but the function is the same. It sends 12v direct to the coil when you are cranking to start; when you release the key from the START position and let the key flip to RUN, this bypass switch turns off and the coil is supplied electricity through the ballast resistor which reduces the voltage to the coil for regular running. So if the car runs fine, but is hard to start all the time (which is sounds like from your description), then this needs to be checked.

You can easily test this as follows:
1) With the car OFF and cold, place a small jumper across the ballast resistor terminals to short it out.
2) Jump in and start the car with the normal "press the accelerator to the floor twice, etc.", and see if it starts better.
3) CUT THE CAR OFF RIGHT AWAY after seeing if it starts better and then remove the jumper. DON'T leave the jumper in for normal running or idle the car for any length of time with the shorting jumper in place, or you will burn out the coil.

If the cars starts better with this jumper test, then it you have a bad ballast bypass switch or wiring. This is a common cause of such starting problems.

The aftermarket coil kits that eliminate the ballast resistor run directly all of the time with 12 volts and so this bypass switch is not needed. (The bypass switch gets bypassed!) Many folks replace the stock coil with these kits and get better starting but have really had a bad ballast bypass switch or wiring all the time.
 
nm9stheham said:
Regardless ............... you likely have a weak spark condition,................ and it sounds like this may be a problem with the ballast bypass in the ignition switch
Click to expand...

Sorry, but jumpering the ballast does not "do" anything, read onwards..........

The way to check this is to use a jumper from the coil + terminal to a battery source like the starter relay "big stud." This bypasses all wiring and gives you a good hot circuit to the coil.

Even better is to actually CHECK it with a multimeter. Clip a multimeter to the coil + terminal and ground. Crank the car using the key The reading should be "same as battery" and in no case less than 10V

The bypass circuit is indeed in the ignition switch. This is a separate switch contact that only does this one job, goes out through the bulkhead connector to the coil + side of the ballast resistor

BYPASSING the ballast is NOT going to cure this problem!!!!!!

1....The ballast is not in the circuit during start...........because the "ignition run" (IGN1) circuit goes DEAD during cranking

2....If the starting / bypass circuit is not operating, the car will never fire during crank, see no 1 above.

To put this another way.............

With the key in "start" the ONLY source of ignition power is the bypass circuit or "IGN2"

With the key in "run" the only source of run power is the "run" or IGN1" circuit
 
67Dart273 said:
Sorry, but jumpering the ballast does not "do" anything, read onwards..........

The way to check this is to use a jumper from the coil + terminal to a battery source like the starter relay "big stud." This bypasses all wiring and gives you a good hot circuit to the coil.

Even better is to actually CHECK it with a multimeter. Clip a multimeter to the coil + terminal and ground. Crank the car using the key The reading should be "same as battery" and in no case less than 10V

The bypass circuit is indeed in the ignition switch. This is a separate switch contact that only does this one job, goes out through the bulkhead connector to the coil + side of the ballast resistor

BYPASSING the ballast is NOT going to cure this problem!!!!!!

1....The ballast is not in the circuit during start...........because the "ignition run" (IGN1) circuit goes DEAD during cranking

2....If the starting / bypass circuit is not operating, the car will never fire during crank, see no 1 above.

To put this another way.............

With the key in "start" the ONLY source of ignition power is the bypass circuit or "IGN2"

With the key in "run" the only source of run power is the "run" or IGN1" circuit
Click to expand...

Exactly.

And to add to that just a bit about symptoms.
If you turn your key and it cranks and cranks and then starts when you let go of the key it's usually the ign switch or the start side of the ballast resistor or circuit.

If you crank and it starts right up, but quits as soon as you let go of the key it's the switch or the run side of ballast or circuit.

A jumper wire from the positive terminal on the battery to the positive terminal on the coil bypasses ALL of the wiring and switches involved and feeds the coil a full 12 volts for diagnostic purposes.
 
Thanks guys; good catch on how to test this. Wish I could say I was just testing you BUT, truth be known, I thought the normal source to the alternator and ballast was still ON when in START; my 70's/80's Dart mechanic'ing is getting a good brushing up..... The jumper to +12 direct is the way to go. I like the direct voltmeter test on the coil.

And agreed on the symptoms that it can kick over when the key is released; seen this / done this before. But if the ballast bypass switch contact is erratic or dirty, it can fire or not in the START position; this can occur as the key is jiggled in the START position. Similarly, the wire connection for this line in the harness connector can be erratic/dirty/corroded, and produce erratic starting. The voltmeter test can tell this.

Regardless, this should to be checked based on the symptoms. Not an unknown problem.....
 
Nobody has mentioned yet, you might wanna stop using the starter fluid. Starter fluid is always an absolute last resort cause it eats rings and then you get whats called an ether baby, an engine that only runs on starting fluid.
 
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