**Twin Turbo 67 Dart Project**

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I have been thinking about Drilling the intake I have for the Fuel Injection bungs. I found all the parts to do it. When the Fuel Rails and other parts get here I will mock it up and see if it will work! There have been many guys that have done it instead of using the Super Victor intake that is already done. The RPM range of the Super Victor manifold is 3500-8000RPM from what edelbrock says anyway. I don't know how accurate that is when it is getting FORCE FED 15lbs of boost though!
 
Mad Dart said:
I have been thinking about Drilling the intake I have for the Fuel Injection bungs. I found all the parts to do it. When the Fuel Rails and other parts get here I will mock it up and see if it will work! There have been many guys that have done it instead of using the Super Victor intake that is already done. The RPM range of the Super Victor manifold is 3500-8000RPM from what edelbrock says anyway. I don't know how accurate that is when it is getting FORCE FED 15lbs of boost though!
Click to expand...

Thats why I ditched the Torker 2. I decided to go with the Performer RPM due to its 15-6500 rpm range. I will add a 1" spacer to hopefully give a bit more low end torque until boost is achieved. My 400 outta pull pretty good up until the boost plants me to the seat!? I still will be using the 850 carb. Later when I am gainfully employed again I will consider swapping to the injection scene.
 
Mad Dart said:
I have been thinking about Drilling the intake I have for the Fuel Injection bungs. I found all the parts to do it. When the Fuel Rails and other parts get here I will mock it up and see if it will work! There have been many guys that have done it instead of using the Super Victor intake that is already done. The RPM range of the Super Victor manifold is 3500-8000RPM from what edelbrock says anyway. I don't know how accurate that is when it is getting FORCE FED 15lbs of boost though!
Click to expand...

It wont behave the same as it does naturally aspirated. Open plenum intakes are the best to use on turbo cars. I run a Holley Pro Dominator tunnel ram with a Hogans sheetmetal top. I would not use a dual plane intake, we had problems getting it to run right. I think it had to do with the way a dual plane flows and its restrictions, especially under boost. A naturally aspirated motor creates a low pressure in the intake port of the head drawing fuel and air toward it. A boosted motor pushes air through and can change the characteristics altogether. I would run the super myself.
 
turbodart68 said:
It wont behave the same as it does naturally aspirated. Open plenum intakes are the best to use on turbo cars. I run a Holley Pro Dominator tunnel ram with a Hogans sheetmetal top. I would not use a dual plane intake, we had problems getting it to run right. I think it had to do with the way a dual plane flows and its restrictions, especially under boost. A naturally aspirated motor creates a low pressure in the intake port of the head drawing fuel and air toward it. A boosted motor pushes air through and can change the characteristics altogether. I would run the super myself.
Click to expand...

Even when the center is milled to equalize charge/boost?
 
turbodart68 said:
It wont behave the same as it does naturally aspirated. Open plenum intakes are the best to use on turbo cars. I run a Holley Pro Dominator tunnel ram with a Hogans sheetmetal top. I would not use a dual plane intake, we had problems getting it to run right. I think it had to do with the way a dual plane flows and its restrictions, especially under boost. A naturally aspirated motor creates a low pressure in the intake port of the head drawing fuel and air toward it. A boosted motor pushes air through and can change the characteristics altogether. I would run the super myself.
Click to expand...

I have seen alot of boosted applications and I would say 99% run a single plane. I got the idea to drill the intake from the turbo forums. Most of them were on the mild side though who did it that way. I just don't want the boost to kick in late is all. I guess that's where the torque of the stroker should over come that issue quickly! My 410 in the 70 comes on pretty quick NA, it sees 3500 RPM faster than i can blink it seems so if boost came on then I better be holding on tight and wearing my XXXL Depends when it hits!! Haaa
 
Louis-

15 lbs of boost with that set up, you are going to need two things:

1.A diaper
2. A pair of wings cause that thing is going to fly!
 
Mad Dart said:
Are you talking about milling the plenum area or somewhere else.
Click to expand...

Yeah,
Not the whole center area, just enough to equalize the intake charge. I figured since the Performer RPM comes in at 1500rpm it would be better for low end before boost. The 1" spacer should improve this as well even under boost conditions.

Again, this is all new and experimental. Trial and error I guess!!
 
CUUDAK said:
Yeah,
Not the whole center area, just enough to equalize the intake charge. I figured since the Performer RPM comes in at 1500rpm it would be better for low end before boost. The 1" spacer should improve this as well even under boost conditions.

Again, this is all new and experimental. Trial and error I guess!!
Click to expand...

In my post about drilling the RPM Performer for injection bungs I was still a bit hesitant to do so. I had reservations in the back of my mind that under Boost Conditions the Manufacturer's RPM ZONE of the intake would be out the window like Chris "turbodart68 is saying. The Intake will be FORCED to accept the air. In an NA application it would be totally different as it PULLS the air into the intake in which would make the intake react TOTALLY different. Soooooooo, I will be using the SUPER VICTOR intake manifold and selling off the RPM Performer.
 
Grinder said:
Louis-

15 lbs of boost with that set up, you are going to need two things:

1.A diaper
2. A pair of wings cause that thing is going to fly!
Click to expand...

Never had Boost in a Muscle Car, only in a Sand Car and Diesel Trucks etc. I am eager to find out exactly what it will do. Hopefully by going EFI after the tuning is all done it will run its azzzz off!
 
bjkadron said:
Isn't the Super Victor for high RPM?
Click to expand...

Conventional thinking of a Naturally Aspirated engine is what most of us have including myself. A NA engine will only SUCK or DRAW in so much air at a time. Think of it like this, if you are sucking through a straw you are only going to pull in so much air! Now hook it to your compressor and look out, you will see a dramatic difference in how much air you can PUSH through the straw by FORCE.

Ohh and if you research a SBM Direct Port Injection Manifold the SUPER VICTOR is the ONLY CHOICE you have because it is the only manifold available with EFI Bungs............Remember we are NOT dealing with a Chevy where it would take a month to decide which one to get!:toothy10:

Dont forget that this is a BOOSTED STROKER Build!! I don't know if you have ever had a Stroker Small Block but when you stomp on the throttle it moves Very Quickly through the RPM You will see 3500RPM VERY Quickly. If the Boost kicks in even then which most would say DANG that is High RPM engine, It will take off like a Rocket Ship for Damn sure no doubt... NA Strokers already come on that way WITHOUT Boost! Now Throw 15 PSI at it and frickin AAAA you better be ready for whatever cause you will moving some ground and VERY QUICKLY, I do know that!

turbodart68
It wont behave the same as it does naturally aspirated. Open plenum intakes are the best to use on turbo cars. I run a Holley Pro Dominator tunnel ram with a Hogans sheetmetal top. I would not use a dual plane intake, we had problems getting it to run right. I think it had to do with the way a dual plane flows and its restrictions, especially under boost. A naturally aspirated motor creates a low pressure in the intake port of the head drawing fuel and air toward it. A boosted motor pushes air through and can change the characteristics altogether. I would run the super myself.
Click to expand...

Mad Dart
I have seen alot of boosted applications and I would say 99% run a single plane. I got the idea to drill the intake from the turbo forums. Most of them were on the mild side though who did it that way. I just don't want the boost to kick in late is all. I guess that's where the torque of the stroker should over come that issue quickly! My 410 in the 70 comes on pretty quick NA, it sees 3500 RPM faster than i can blink it seems so if boost came on then I better be holding on tight and wearing my XXXL Depends when it hits!! Haaa
Click to expand...

Mad Dart
In my post about drilling the RPM Performer for injection bungs I was still a bit hesitant to do so. I had reservations in the back of my mind that under Boost Conditions the Manufacturer's RPM ZONE of the intake would be out the window like Chris "turbodart68 is saying. The Intake will be FORCED to accept the air. In an NA application it would be totally different as it PULLS the air into the intake in which would make the intake react TOTALLY different. Soooooooo, I will be using the SUPER VICTOR intake manifold and selling off the RPM Performer.
Click to expand...

Mad Dart
Just purchased the Super Victor Intake with the EFI Bungs.
Click to expand...
 
Where exactly are you getting your info on intakes??? I am a bit confused on this issue. You will have turbo lag with the A/R size on those turbo's! Considering the size of your cam there too you will have to get above 2500rpms to get into the powerband. So, I am thinking you will not see boost until the same if not over 3000rpm. I assume your ride is for race only purposes?? Running an Auto trans too. Trans-brake??

My car is specifically for street use and drivability is an issue. My idea was to use the Performer RPM so the engine will be able to pull itself off idle until boost is achieved. You will not always be in boost condition so the intake WILL affect lower rpms. I do understand that there is a difference in boosted engines but still gonna have low end issues reguardless with the single plane intake off idle.
 
CUUDAK said:
Where exactly are you getting your info on intakes??? I am a bit confused on this issue. You will have turbo lag with the A/R size on those turbo's! Considering the size of your cam there too you will have to get above 2500rpms to get into the powerband. So, I am thinking you will not see boost until the same if not over 3000rpm. I assume your ride is for race only purposes?? Running an Auto trans too. Trans-brake??

My car is specifically for street use and drivability is an issue. My idea was to use the Performer RPM so the engine will be able to pull itself off idle until boost is achieved. You will not always be in boost condition so the intake WILL affect lower rpms. I do understand that there is a difference in boosted engines but still gonna have low end issues reguardless with the single plane intake off idle.
Click to expand...

Turbo lag? I seriously doubt it. Remember this is a stroker build with a turbo specific camshaft! Not an off the shelf cam like some use and then just throw a turbo at it.
 
My build has already been calculated and the boost should be all in by 2800-3000 RPM. I have spoke to many guys running my same turbos and all have told me the exhaust AR acts alot smaller than what is advertised. One guy was telling me it acts like a .96 or smaller.
 
Mad Dart said:
Turbo lag? I seriously doubt it. Remember this is a stroker build with a turbo specific camshaft! Not an off the shelf cam like some use and then just throw a turbo at it.
Click to expand...

I remember!!
I was also told on TTF that stroking was irrelevant.. And that was hammered onto me!!

Where did you get the intake info.?
 
CUUDAK said:
I remember!!
I was also told on TTF that stroking was irrelevant.. And that was hammered onto me!!

Where did you get the intake info.?
Click to expand...

Look at all the builds that are boosted and you will see that almost everyone runs a single plane whether it is Supercharged or Turbo charged. There must be something to that. I am going to run the Super Victor because it is the ONLY manifold that is Direct Port FUEL Injection ready.

I have heard the same thing about about stroking vs not stroking. Depends alot on your HEADS and what they will flow I guess. NA my engine should break 500HP without any boost. Throw the boost to it and at 7-8lbs or maybe a tad more I should get an EASY 700+ to the tires, with my build I am not going to depend on a bunch of boost to get me to my power goals.

If I started with a Non Stroked 350-400 hp engine I would need twice as much boost to get me to my goal.......if that makes sense.

This is Learn as you go I guess.
If the intake doesn't do what I expect, it will be changed out before it leaves the Dyno room I can tell you that!!
 
Mad Dart said:
Look at all the builds that are boosted and you will see that almost everyone runs a single plane whether it is Supercharged or Turbo charged. There must be something to that. I am going to run the Super Victor because it is the ONLY manifold that is Direct Port FUEL Injection ready.

I have heard the same thing about about stroking vs not stroking. Depends alot on your HEADS and what they will flow I guess. NA my engine should break 500HP without any boost. Throw the boost to it and at 7-8lbs or maybe a tad more I should get an EASY 700+ to the tires, with my build I am not going to depend on a bunch of boost to get me to my power goals.

If I started with a Non Stroked 350-400 hp engine I would need twice as much boost to get me to my goal.......if that makes sense.

This is Learn as you go I guess.
If the intake doesn't do what I expect, it will be changed out before it leaves the Dyno room I can tell you that!!
Click to expand...

Yeah,
I have a Torker 2 and have option of the M1 from Mopar. I will have to look but I think the M1 has the areas for the injection?? We will see what both do I suppose. No dyno for me unless I have issues with tuning. I am pretty good at tuning NA engines, this turbo thing is a whole new park to play in!!
 
Well my 90mm Throttle Body came yesterday. The Fuel Rails, Throttle Body Intake Elbow along with the Mallory Fuel Pressure Regulator came today!!

I Have an M1 on my 70 Dart with the 410 stroker and 4spd. I will look at it tonight but I don't believe the pads are on the intake for the Injection Bungs. It would need to be drilled and weld the bungs in along with tapping the holes to to accept the hardware so the Fuel Rails don't pop off.
 
Well it looks like it will all fit without cutting the hood. The mock manifold is 4.90" in front and 5.8" in the back to the carb pad. The NEW manifold is 4.15" in front and 5.7" in back which lowers the intake tract by 1/2" in the center of the pad and 3/4 of an inch in the front where it is needed the most. The new manifold should be here in a few days.
I will need to trim off 1 side of the intake elbow which is no big deal, those mounting spots are not needed anyway and the TPS will then fit.

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