Shunyun
New Convert
Would this be right for starting down the wicked path with a 225 /6 (65 Dart Gt)?
http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sgv/pts/3974268783.html
http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sgv/pts/3974268783.html
VX 35 in So Cal
- Thread starter Shunyun
- Start date
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I know practically nothing about turbos except that the right SIZE turbo can be the best thing you could ever do for a slant six in terms of performance (output.)
If this turbo was originally sized for a 360, (that engine is sixty-percent bigger than a 225 slant six,) it is likely too large for good street performance on a 225.
It would probably work okay in the high rpm (5,000rpm and up) reaches of operation, but the slants I have seen that run well, usually run out of breath about 5,200 rpm. But, they make a LOT of horsepower below that.
I'd look for a smaller unit, but what do I know???
................... :sign3:
mathewdylang
Well-Known Member
Ive had a few guys tell me it would work great. Also had someone tell me its to small for a single on a 318, which makes no sense as it is intended to shove air in a 19:1 compression diesel motor. I personally think itd be a little large unless youre actually building the motor completely for high boost.
Shunyun
New Convert
Thank you!
UOP
Well-Known Member
That turbo (hx35) would be a good fit for a /6, up to ~450-500 bhp while still being somewhat efficient.
Still a little too small for a 318, definitely too small for a 360. You can't compare diesel turbos based on displacement. It's an apples to oranges comparison.
Still a little too small for a 318, definitely too small for a 360. You can't compare diesel turbos based on displacement. It's an apples to oranges comparison.
I live 10-15 mins away from City of Industry and have a 273 in my Dart. May be the right size? ;)
Now you've got my mind thinking and I haven't even finished the brakes yet. Should I get it and throw it on a shelf as I start to build up a collection of turbo parts (that is if the OP doesn't plan on buying it, I don't want to steal his deal)? Lol, you guys suck.
Shunyun
New Convert
Doing my research... That's a diesel turbo, right? And I think that's dual exhaust channels and no intercooler. Don't gas engines require a turbo with an intercooler? I like the idea of the dual exhaust an I imagine that a custom manifold would be the ticket. Or is that overkill for a little application like this?
inkjunkie
Well-Known Member
My diesel pickemup, a Chebby, has an intercooler on it. It is as large, if not a bit larger, than the radiator. Many folks avoid the intercoler route and use Meth injection. Last I spoke with http://www.sd-concepts.com/ they told me that they are pretty much just using Meth injection to cool the intake charge.
Some folks will use both, a cooler and Meth. Me being the lazy bastard, would try to just use the Meth injection. Nothing more easy than drilling a hole or two for a Meth nozzle....You do not need to find Methanol, just use blue windshield washer solvent. I believe the one that is good to 32* (F) is the one you need...
Shunyun
New Convert
We got plenty of meth here in Methcondido... old people hanging out on the corner selling it all day long...
Jokes aside... OK, so I gotta do some more reading. Injecting in the compressor side? If on the exhaust side, before or after; don't you want heat to expand the gasses before the turbine?
inkjunkie
Well-Known Member
http://www.alcoholinjectionsystems.com/ look around, they have some info on the where & why, or at least they used to....might want to look here
http://www.alcoholinjectionsystems....-My-Water-Injection-Nozzles/article_info.html
http://www.alcoholinjectionsystems....-My-Water-Injection-Nozzles/article_info.html
Please explain the meaning of this sentence. I really do not understand... There are many, many gas.turbo systems running without an intercooler (low-boost systems.)
The way it is written ("a turbo with an intercooler,") it sounds like you think an intercooler is part of the turbo. I am confused by this...
Please elaborate. Intercoolers are separate from the turbo, itself.
Don't make this any more complicated than it is. The way most folks route the meth spray, is through a tube that runs into the turbo's compresser-discharge plumbing that feeds the compressed air directly into the carburetor throat (see picture.)
That's all there is to it.
Some folks think that injecting the meth BEFORE the turbo inlet is a better way to do it, but the majority do not do it that way.
Here is a picture of mine:
UOP
Well-Known Member
The reason deisel trucks have such huge intercoolers is because a) they run much higher boost pressures (25+ psi) and b) the turbo stays in some sort of boost more of the time, especially when hauling, both of which generate quite a bit of heat. For a low boost application, 5psi would be ok without one on a blow thru setup. Many have done this no problem. However, any more than that you'll need an intercooler. Personally, I don't see why guys go through the process of building a turbo system, and then not use an intercooler. It's not like 10 years ago when you had to drop $400 on a Spearco, a decent unit can be had for 100 bucks on ebay.
As for the dual inlet on the turbine, that's just to help the turbo spool faster.
As for the dual inlet on the turbine, that's just to help the turbo spool faster.
Shunyun
New Convert
Can't write now. In store, looking at your pic on iPhone, wife asks if I'm looking at ****. I couldn't honestly say no...!
Shunyun
New Convert
OK, back to a real computer. I read through the 'turbo bible' reference (yes, I read the sticky's first...) and saw this:
http://www.theturboforums.com/turbotech/img_turbine_14bs.jpg
and this: http://www.theturboforums.com/turbotech/img_turbine_32.jpg
and this: Petrol engines, where the exhaust gas temperatures are 200 to 300 °C higher than in diesel engines, are generally equipped with water-cooled center housings.
Just trying to learn... In the picture of the twin turbine, I recall the writer saying this was typical in diesel engines. So I was just wondering about this one VX35, in that it doesn't seem (from what I can see) to have the 'water-cooled center housing'.
Not trying to complicate it, but the nature of the subject is complicated. And I can't make it simple without understanding it myself first.
I'm far from starting to boost my engine, but would this turbo be a good buy to throw on the shelf for a year or two to boost my '68 273? I'd plan for somewhere around 400 hp. Right now, I don't know much about a turbo system besides skimming through these threads and the turbo bibles.
UOP
Well-Known Member
Properly set up, water/meth can cool better than an air-to-air, so yeah, no problem. Personally, my only problem with using water/meth in a blow thru setup is that the methanol can affect the air/fuel mixture, and if the system is tuned to utilize that extra fuel and it's suddenly lost (like the tank runs dry), the possibility of engine damage is there. But, in all honesty I wouldn't think that would be an issue in a street engine running 10 psi, especially if the mixture was 50/50 or less methanol. Most turbo cars run rich at wot anyway.
JMO
UOP
Well-Known Member
This turbo would work for what you want, but there's no need to jump on this particular one and sit on it. That's about the right price for a good used one.
Is that the "intercooler" to which you referred?
I can cetainly see how that could confuse anyone who was not familiar with the nomenclature of all these various components.
If, indeed, that was the case, then I understand what you meant, now.
Thanks for the explanation and the nice comment about my alky/water injector. :happy2:
Shunyun
New Convert
Yes, that's what I'm trying to understand. The 'turbo bible' says that some types of turbos have a housing of some sort and I assume that's meant to work with some kind of radiator (the intercooler?). Conversely, it seems to indicate that some turbos don't come with that housing and are meant to be run in applications that don't require cooling (i.e. diesel). So my concern is in buying a turbo meant for a diesel that doesn't have that cooler housing. On the other hand, from what I'm reading about meth/water injection, can I assume that that's the solution for using those turbos in a gas powered engine?
Sorry for the confusion, just trying to wrap my head around this. I'm an IT architect and I read everything before I try it, but I'm naturally a kinetic learner; which means I ultimately have to apply what I read to real-world components, and I usually don't really learn it till I get it in my hands. So while I think the words make sense, the pictures of turbos are only getting me so far and I need to ask these ignorant questions.
UOP
Well-Known Member
The water cooled center section is not needed. Even if you get a turbo with a cooled center section you don't have to hook it up. The only thing the cooled center section does is help keep oil from cooking inside the turbo and gumming it up. On the surface that sounds like a great thing, and it is for a turbo expected to go 150k miles, but not 100% needed for a light daily/weekend car. You can hook it up if you want, but just letting you know you don't have to.
Also, and I've been meaning to mention this, you will have to run an external wastwegate with that turbo. The factory internal wastegate is set to something like 25 psi and isn't adjustable.
Also, and I've been meaning to mention this, you will have to run an external wastwegate with that turbo. The factory internal wastegate is set to something like 25 psi and isn't adjustable.
inkjunkie
Well-Known Member
Very true on the diesel always being in boost.....not so much on your thought of the intercooler, SD Concepts built this Duster and it clearly DOES not have an intercooler on the front of the car....and it is making a boat load of power....
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Wp8kCs9vu4"]twin turbo duster 1000 rear wheel hp - YouTube[/ame]
If you watch the beginning of the video it clearly has a simple tube running behind the grill, where the intercooler USED to be.....plus I called Wendy and asked about it just for my own knowledge....
UOP
Well-Known Member
I can't watch that video on my ipad, and I couldn't find any specifics on the car online. Do you know them? I don't consider this a fair comparrison though, it's not quite the same thing as either a hard working deisel engine or a turbo'd stock engine street car.
Shunyun
New Convert
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