Was just woken at 11:30 our mountain is burning and has gotten worse.

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If you have the majority or the debris cleared by sunrise and haven’t already, make sure that your gutters aren’t full of desiccated detritus and I would reduce (or soak) any standing punky dead standing trees/stobs. If they get an ember in them they light like a little pile of 1 hour fuel that will spit more embers for a long time. Be safe and leave when it’s time!
 
A lot of trees and we got the leaves its the pines That worry me

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@like_A_pike

I see you know what’s up. Were you the ne who did some Wildland work? There was someone on FABO that was a WFF.
 
Sounds like they started firing operations and are back burning. It really surprises me how the state DOF can’t figure out when to back burn, like on an initial attack.
No roads to the fire so they had to wait for it to come off the mountain to back burn? That BS, tool up, grab the drip torches, and form a hand crew. Sadly, a lot of regular firefighters are novices when it comes to wildfire. It’s not that different in that the fire triangle is the same. Putting fires out with shovels and Pulaski, back burning, putting fires out with no water is basic stuff. These guys don’t know the basics so how would they ever “get back to basics”. We call these guys pavement queens. They don’t take their trucks off road, to scared to step out into this….
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Last two pics are at 10-12,000 ft ASL. We were there one day after the lightning started fire and it a skunking, do nothing fire. East coast fire folks really need to beef up that Wildland fire system due to a serious uptick in droughts and fires. Perhaps they should send guys out to the west to train?
 
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@like_A_pike

I see you know what’s up. Were you the ne who did some Wildland work? There was someone on FABO that was a WFF.
Ya know, I was in fire research back east. I burned with TNC and Cape Cod National Seashore. My major prof and the feds made me certify for basic and chainsaws. Red card through my FIA time in Michigan. When they sent us to inventory the black Hills and Devils Tower, the Cement Ridge fire started. IC was going to kick us out but the boss let us stay for mop up and then toasted black plots! I spent many years for industry with a tanker endorsement and a fleet of engines that mostly did 4th of July Parades. But I got ‘em on a few small jobs and some spooky stuff in 2011 in the coastal Olympics. Nothing as exciting as real wildland fire. My GF and I had two hoses going on a tanker trying to keep a 3 or 4 acre thing from crossing a road one night. That was prolly the high point! I remember lots of your stories.
 
Hoping that all goes well for you Steve and that it doesn't worsen. I'm originally from PA and it saddens and infuriates me with this lack of support for everyone involved that has potential to lose everything. Keep up posted and please stay safe.
 
I remember lots of your stories.

Sadly l, there won’t be any more from me. I am going through the medical retirement process. If you get engrossed in it and do it for a long time it is really hard to hang up the hard hat. There is not many things more rewarding than getting a good stop on a fire with all your bros. The hotter and harder it gets the bigger the high.
 
Biden has the National guard on stand by for the white house after the election. so they are not available for us.

Local people have been evacuated west of my house the fire is slowly coming east. Hoping for no wind. Our government sucks.

Thanks for sharing Steve continued well wishes for you guys! WTF is it with with no gov support?? 2 hurricanes and now this, from what I've read on here.
Be well!

Without turning this into a political shitshow, it's pretty apparent neither of you understand firefighting or firefighting resources, most people don't.

You can't just deploy any old National Guard units to a fire. The Guard trains certain units in fire suppression, and it's usually not very many. This takes weeks. So more than likely, not a single member of the National Guard that's doing security duty at the moment is qualified to fight fire. The same is true for National Guard air tankers. The firefighting units have to be fitted to the aircraft, and of course they have to be available to do that. And then the air crew requires substantial training to be able to properly use the aircraft that way.

Air tankers at the federal level are a very scarce resource. Most of the air tankers here in California are either directly CalFire or contracted by CalFire, at the state level. There are some federal tankers, but typically not very many. And because there hasn't been a ton of rain in SoCal most of them are located there at the moment, because they're having wind events there too. Being "denied" air tankers is more likely a lack of availability, and the word "denied" is not something used at the fire service level, so someone has politicized that for you.

I don't know specifically about PA, but many fire departments on the east coast are not particularly well equipped, or trained, for large wildland fires as they don't happen that often. Currently that fire is only listed at 200 acres if I'm looking at the right one, which really isn't a large fire at all. My department handles 200 acre fires regularly, and typically does so without any federal resources at all. Sometimes without state resources, depending on the day. Obviously that's not much of a comfort if your property is being threatened because that's more than big enough to destroy houses. But my point is that it's not really a fire that should require resources beyond the local level at all.
 
ZERO gov support, I didn't mention NG, FEMA, or any other agency. I simply said ZERO from ANY government. And I also mentioned the 2 hurricanes lol. smh
 
ZERO gov support, I didn't mention NG, FEMA, or any other agency. I simply said ZERO from ANY government. And I also mentioned the 2 hurricanes lol. smh

I saw what you said, and it's untrue. I didn't address the hurricane response because that's not what this thread is about, but if you insist- the entire alphabet soup of federal agencies is down in the hurricane areas, that's both obvious and easy to confirm. We had USAR teams deployed from California for both hurricanes, those are federal. And FEMA is absolutely in all the areas that can currently be reached. Again, this is easily confirmed although there are plenty of people lying about it at the moment.

And I will say again, as unfortunate as this fire is, it's a local fire that shouldn't require any resources at the federal level at all. A 200 acre fire here in California wouldn't even have an emergency declared at the state level in most cases, that is a fire that can typically be handled entirely at the county level or even by a single decent sized fire department.

Like I said, I'm not trying to make this political, so you should deal in facts and not in propaganda. The fire in PA is a small, local event that local agencies should be more than capable of handling, not a national emergency. That's just the facts. That doesn't mean its not a disaster for the people that are effected by it, but it also doesn't mean its somehow a failing of the federal government, because it's a small local event.
 
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Without turning this into a political shitshow, it's pretty apparent neither of you understand firefighting or firefighting resources, most people don't.

You can't just deploy any old National Guard units to a fire. The Guard trains certain units in fire suppression, and it's usually not very many. This takes weeks. So more than likely, not a single member of the National Guard that's doing security duty at the moment is qualified to fight fire. The same is true for National Guard air tankers. The firefighting units have to be fitted to the aircraft, and of course they have to be available to do that. And then the air crew requires substantial training to be able to properly use the aircraft that way.

Air tankers at the federal level are a very scarce resource. Most of the air tankers here in California are either directly CalFire or contracted by CalFire, at the state level. There are some federal tankers, but typically not very many. And because there hasn't been a ton of rain in SoCal most of them are located there at the moment, because they're having wind events there too. Being "denied" air tankers is more likely a lack of availability, and the word "denied" is not something used at the fire service level, so someone has politicized that for you.

I don't know specifically about PA, but many fire departments on the east coast are not particularly well equipped, or trained, for large wildland fires as they don't happen that often. Currently that fire is only listed at 200 acres if I'm looking at the right one, which really isn't a large fire at all. My department handles 200 acre fires regularly, and typically does so without any federal resources at all. Sometimes without state resources, depending on the day. Obviously that's not much of a comfort if your property is being threatened because that's more than big enough to destroy houses. But my point is that it's not really a fire that should require resources beyond the local level at all

Excellent post. We would put out a 200 acre fire in one operational shift in SoCal. We are well equipped and trained better but I can’t believe PA or any other local states don’t have a state ran Type 2 helicopter or a single type 2 hand crew. Incidents have been elevated on the East coast for about 3-4 years.
 
Excellent post. We would put out a 200 acre fire in one operational shift in SoCal. We are well equipped and trained better but I can’t believe PA or any other local states don’t have a state ran Type 2 helicopter or a single type 2 hand crew. Incidents have been elevated on the East coast for about 3-4 years.

The east coast is a whole different deal with wildland firefighting. They just haven't had to do it historically in most places, and despite increasing numbers of fires they haven't upgraded their response or equipment. Looking at the local news posts on the fire it looks like the local fire departments are all volunteer and I don't believe PA has any state level resources that fight wildland fires specifically, although I could be wrong as I'm not well versed in all of PA's resources.

Like you mentioned earlier, most places outside of the west coast, including fire departments, don't even know what a Type 3 engine is as they typically run Type 5's and 6's.

The fire behavior is very different, they did a controlled burn here the next county over at Calaveras Big Trees park and they did almost 900 acres in 4 days. That was a prescribed burn with slow rates of spread. No air resources, no dozers, and while I can't seem to find a personnel count for the operation at the moment I'd be willing to bet it was less than 100 people, heck probably less than 50. Couple of hand crews and some overhead most likely.

And for the others in this thread, it's not that I'm not sympathetic. I could easily lose my home where I'm at in a 200 acre fire, but that would unfold over the course of an hour or less, not days. And it wouldn't get any nationally based federal resources, it would be the local fire department, CalFire, and probably a couple of local USFS engines from the national forest up the road. So, technically federal rigs but ones that are stationed and staffed locally. There would be no FEMA resources, no national emergency declaration, and possibly not even a state emergency declaration unless there was a bunch of houses lost.

For example, the California National Guard was deployed on the "Line fire" this fall. At the time the California National Guard was deployed, that fire had burned 27,000+ acres in less than 5 days. It was threatening 65,000 homes, with 9,200 homes evacuated, and the state and local governments had already deployed 2,000+ firefighters and 200+ fire engines, plus air resources, on that fire alone.

National Guard deployed to help fight raging California fire threatening thousands of homes.

And honestly, that fire wouldn't always get a California National Guard deployment, but at the time there were 3 fires all over 20,000 acres going that started at the same time (same day!), so local resources were thin because there were literally hundreds of thousands of homes threatened. There was a wind event and the first day they started they all went thousands of acres in an afternoon.

It's also worth noting that even that National Guard deployment wasn't nationally based resources, it was the California National Guard units that had already received fire training for the year. It wasn't National Guard units based in other states, and it was a declaration by the governor, not anyone at the federal level.
 
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