What Are You Doing To/With Your Car Today?
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LOL............. no Sir, here is the info on the car.................Looks more like you pulled the car
Is that a factory Hemi Dart??
1969 Race Dart w/ 426 Hemi- garaged for 45+ years
UPDATE May 21, 2024 Welcome, for those of you reading this build for the first time, the car is done and I could not be happier with the result. It took 1 year to complete. Thanks for following along. Hello all, found the forum searching for info on the 1969 Dodge Dart we just received...
www.forabodiesonly.com
DrCharles
Well-Known Member
Today I removed the rocker shafts, and the failed keepers on #4 and #7. The displaced half actually fractured into two pieces in my fingers. Both of those valves feel as though they were seating properly. BUT as I lifted the left shaft off, I could see that #3 intake wasn't even attached to its keeper any more! That keeper had a rocker arm pad-shaped wear mark on the top, further confirming that it had failed to hold up the valve. Luckily, my new valve seals helped prevent it from falling into the cylinder. That would have been fun.
But worst of all, with a straightedge along all the tips, that valve would not come up closer than about .080 to the perfect straight line of the others, and of course the cylinder would not hold air, all coming out the carb. So that one, at least, is bent. Explains the clank noises all right.
So at least the left head has to come off... and #3 intake valve replaced. Hope there is no damage to the KB280 pistons' valve reliefs or tops.
The big question, of course, is WHY did this happen?
I felt sure that the keepers were properly seated when I assembled the springs on the bench, because I know what happens when a valve falls into the cylinder.
I have not over-revved the engine.
My calculations showed that there should be plenty of p/v clearance. There was with the same short block and cam on my iron heads! Once I repair the damage I think I'll clay it for a direct measurement.
I'm going to replace all 32 keeper halves after finding this third injured valve. Over on Moparts, some think a 3/8 keeper or two could have found its way into the bag of 11/32 keepers... hard to tell now when they are chewed up or fractured or both!
A couple of snaps of the carnage so far:
But worst of all, with a straightedge along all the tips, that valve would not come up closer than about .080 to the perfect straight line of the others, and of course the cylinder would not hold air, all coming out the carb. So that one, at least, is bent. Explains the clank noises all right.
So at least the left head has to come off... and #3 intake valve replaced. Hope there is no damage to the KB280 pistons' valve reliefs or tops.
The big question, of course, is WHY did this happen?
I felt sure that the keepers were properly seated when I assembled the springs on the bench, because I know what happens when a valve falls into the cylinder.
I have not over-revved the engine.
My calculations showed that there should be plenty of p/v clearance. There was with the same short block and cam on my iron heads! Once I repair the damage I think I'll clay it for a direct measurement.
I'm going to replace all 32 keeper halves after finding this third injured valve. Over on Moparts, some think a 3/8 keeper or two could have found its way into the bag of 11/32 keepers... hard to tell now when they are chewed up or fractured or both!
A couple of snaps of the carnage so far:
DrCharles
Well-Known Member
Took the left head off today. #7 intake seems to have survived without hitting the piston, but here is #3 intake (the one where both halves of the lock had given up). 
I am lucky the valve head didn't come off. There is a shiny area on the piston valve relief, but no real damage. I'm a bit concerned about the valve stem discoloration - will have to check the guide carefully but there's nothing obviously sloppy or loose.
I also poured some solvent into #7 chamber with the spring reinstalled and nothing came out the port. Hoping #3 seat is also OK once I get a new 2.14 valve...
I am lucky the valve head didn't come off. There is a shiny area on the piston valve relief, but no real damage. I'm a bit concerned about the valve stem discoloration - will have to check the guide carefully but there's nothing obviously sloppy or loose.I also poured some solvent into #7 chamber with the spring reinstalled and nothing came out the port. Hoping #3 seat is also OK once I get a new 2.14 valve...
My 67 Barracuda - finally got around to replacing the 235/60 x 15 Goodrich drag radials that were eleven years old and hard as a rock with a pair of 275/60 x 15 Nitto drag radials. Nittos have been sitting for a year waiting for me to get off my butt and mount them. Did it myself, with an Amazon bead breaker, a Harbor Freight tire remover/installer and my new bubble balancer. Took some muscle, which I don't have as much of as I used to, and I'm sweating as I type, but - it's done.
One thing about that 35 year old cheapy, dull paint job is that I can lay tools on my trunk lid without worrying about damaging the paint.
One thing about that 35 year old cheapy, dull paint job is that I can lay tools on my trunk lid without worrying about damaging the paint.
DrCharles
Well-Known Member
It looks like I may have been sold the wrong retainers years ago by the machinist who put my iron heads together... not only is the installed height way off (too low), but replacing a lock with a new Comp 613 makes it even lower. I think the dropped valve either spit out a keeper or pulled right through. You can see in the pics that the locks don't sit in the same place.
That's what I get for reusing parts... New Comp 741 retainers on order! And a kit of shims in case any are too high once the right parts are on. Unless I want to pull the other head (and the right side is a royal PITA), I'll have to do the swap in the car. Oh well.
613 (no lash cap recess) lock, full spring load:
Lock as currently installed, with checking spring:
Lock as installed with full spring pressure. Sits even lower in the retainer...
That's what I get for reusing parts...
New Comp 741 retainers on order! And a kit of shims in case any are too high once the right parts are on. Unless I want to pull the other head (and the right side is a royal PITA), I'll have to do the swap in the car. Oh well.613 (no lash cap recess) lock, full spring load:
Lock as currently installed, with checking spring:
Lock as installed with full spring pressure. Sits even lower in the retainer...
Dang, man! How many cars you got in there???
Glad you got it figured out. Awful way to find it but you've limited the damage and can now get it rightIt looks like I may have been sold the wrong retainers years ago by the machinist who put my iron heads together... not only is the installed height way off (too low), but replacing a lock with a new Comp 613 makes it even lower. I think the dropped valve either spit out a keeper or pulled right through. You can see in the pics that the locks don't sit in the same place.
That's what I get for reusing parts...
613 (no lash cap recess) lock, full spring load:
View attachment 1716080457
Lock as currently installed, with checking spring:
View attachment 1716080458
Lock as installed with full spring pressure. Sits even lower in the retainer...
View attachment 1716080459
Too many. . . .
Changed Vixen's oil to 5w20 Motorcraft synthetic blend with Rislone ZDDP additive and dammit she starts a LOT easier. That 20/50 was really sluggin her down.
Step one...
Degreased everything
Degreased everything
Heck yeah man! Spring is here! lol
I'm gonna go out and drive my new car today!
Yote
Well-Known Member
Not today, but this last week. Got thermostatic valve in air cleaner functional again. Installed conical washers on 340 exhaust manifold, which POs mechanic did not.
Also put new chrome bezels on the twin hood scoops to replace previous vinyl, improvised junk.. Pricey, but was impressed by the quality.
Yote
Also put new chrome bezels on the twin hood scoops to replace previous vinyl, improvised junk.. Pricey, but was impressed by the quality.
Yote
Being up 26 hours straight with the GF picking this up! 20 hrs of driving.... yeah, wrong wing that's small beans compared to the work ahead. Love it and my GF is seriously awesome for going with me for this.
MileHighDart
Well-Known Member
Actually, I'm considering bailing out.
72Dart6pack
Harder Better Faster Stronger.
Do what's best for you.
More than just today I've been working on it, but today I finally got it buttoned up and put power to it. Tommy White serviced my wiper motor/gear. It now runs smoothly and parks right.
Before
After
Functional
Before
After
Functional
DrCharles
Well-Known Member
I found the problem with my heads, and as usual it was my fault
While using the checking springs, I noticed a suspicious amount of movement in the retainer. With the valve in my hand, no spring, and the retainer pulled tight against the old locks - it wobbles back and forth. Not a huge amount, but enough.
If I were more experienced at assembling heads, I would have noticed it. Oh well, live and learn.
A comparison test with the new 614 locks and the new +.050 locks, and it's gnat's *** tight. I tried several random combinations of old locks not showing visible wear or damage, and all of them let the retainer wobble.
And if that wasn't evidence enough - after searching my bench and the surrounding areas (for the third time)... I found another brand-new, clean and sealed Comp bag of +.050 614 locks. Those are the ones that Dwayne sent me, obviously.
So the inescapable conclusion from the above is that somehow in my excitement to get the heads together and on the engine - I had put the old 3/8" locks on my new 11/32" valves.
I'm lucky that only one valve dropped and that it was at low/idle RPM. Could have been a lot worse.
Not only that - that also explains why my installed height was .050 lower than I thought, because Dwayne had sent +.050 locks which of course is exactly what I need!! So instead of 130/430 lbs, I was running more like 155/455. At least the Mini-Express cam and mushroom lifters look like they survived the ~1 hour of run time, and none of the valves were way out of adjustment, even the ones with loose keepers (not the dropped one, obviously).
Lesson (re)-learned, and I shouldn't have needed a reminder after so many years- anything you don't check (preferably twice) is going to bite you in the butt. Murphy's Law reigns supreme...
While using the checking springs, I noticed a suspicious amount of movement in the retainer. With the valve in my hand, no spring, and the retainer pulled tight against the old locks - it wobbles back and forth. Not a huge amount, but enough.
A comparison test with the new 614 locks and the new +.050 locks, and it's gnat's *** tight. I tried several random combinations of old locks not showing visible wear or damage, and all of them let the retainer wobble.
And if that wasn't evidence enough - after searching my bench and the surrounding areas (for the third time)... I found another brand-new, clean and sealed Comp bag of +.050 614 locks. Those are the ones that Dwayne sent me, obviously.
So the inescapable conclusion from the above is that somehow in my excitement to get the heads together and on the engine - I had put the old 3/8" locks on my new 11/32" valves.
I'm lucky that only one valve dropped and that it was at low/idle RPM. Could have been a lot worse.
Not only that - that also explains why my installed height was .050 lower than I thought, because Dwayne had sent +.050 locks which of course is exactly what I need!! So instead of 130/430 lbs, I was running more like 155/455. At least the Mini-Express cam and mushroom lifters look like they survived the ~1 hour of run time, and none of the valves were way out of adjustment, even the ones with loose keepers (not the dropped one, obviously).
Lesson (re)-learned, and I shouldn't have needed a reminder after so many years- anything you don't check (preferably twice) is going to bite you in the butt. Murphy's Law reigns supreme...
DrCharles
Well-Known Member
Today my new valve retainers and spring shims came... but I've had some kind of GI bug all day. Going at both ends intermittently, but fortunately not at the same time Seems to be clearing up with the aid of some green tea with plenty of sugar.
Tomorrow the intake valve is supposed to arrive too, so I can get back to work, tummy permitting! NOT the one I ordered from Summit that was supposed to be drop-shipped yesterday morning according to their rep who put me on hold to call them directly. But another unused one I got on Ebay, with Fedex tracking... I'd call and cancel it, but that guarantees I'll find another tweaked one!
Seems to be clearing up with the aid of some green tea with plenty of sugar.Tomorrow the intake valve is supposed to arrive too, so I can get back to work, tummy permitting! NOT the one I ordered from Summit that was supposed to be drop-shipped yesterday morning according to their rep who put me on hold to call them directly. But another unused one I got on Ebay, with Fedex tracking... I'd call and cancel it, but that guarantees I'll find another tweaked one!
DrCharles
Well-Known Member
Finally got the engine reassembled this afternoon, after the virus cleared out of my system. In fact, everything's back together but the steering column and one valve cover bolt I dropped last week and I plan to put that in tomorrow morning.
Might even be able to make the annual cruise-in/car show tomorrow at the Lakeland Pharmacy in Willow Springs if all goes well. I do have towing coverage on my insurance (American Modern via Heacock), but I keep thinking of the axiom not to drive further than you want to walk home...
and I plan to put that in tomorrow morning.Might even be able to make the annual cruise-in/car show tomorrow at the Lakeland Pharmacy in Willow Springs if all goes well. I do have towing coverage on my insurance (American Modern via Heacock), but I keep thinking of the axiom not to drive further than you want to walk home...
Not doing anything to the car today but I am going to a Mopar event at Mo-Kan raceway. Hopefully there will be some goodies in the swap area.
DrCharles
Well-Known Member
Yesterday, heads back on, valves adjusted. Got up this morning and put the steering column back in. Shakedown run unremarkable except the speedo (cable-driven) doesn't work any more. Don't have time to troubleshoot, now off to a cruise-in/car show in Willow Springs 
Will put the GPS Speedo app on my phone even though I know the tach readings, in case some LEO wants to cite me for nonfunctioning speedo...
Will put the GPS Speedo app on my phone even though I know the tach readings, in case some LEO wants to cite me for nonfunctioning speedo... -
