Even if you have set up your distributor correctly there is still one problem. The advance plate tends to float leading to inconsistancy. The only way to cure this problem is to weld the plate solid. I do not have the capabilities to do so but Don does it. Even if I don't go with his system I will have him do my distributor.
What ignition system will do me justice??
- Thread starter spook
- Start date
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Even if you have set up your distributor correctly there is still one problem. The advance plate tends to float leading to inconsistancy. The only way to cure this problem is to weld the plate solid. I do not have the capabilities to do so but Don does it. Even if I don't go with his system I will have him do my distributor.
briankaplan
greenduster
I vote for MSD also. I've had 2 units myself.
Car came with a 6A box. Iran it for 3 years.
Just went with a 6AL box for the insurance. Haven't
had a problem yet. Seen other guys run the same box
for 5 years with no problems.
Car came with a 6A box. Iran it for 3 years.
Just went with a 6AL box for the insurance. Haven't
had a problem yet. Seen other guys run the same box
for 5 years with no problems.
Most of the serious guys I know (granted, they are all old school) say multi-spark units are all hype. As someone else said, the multi-spark stops before you really start making power anyway. It may help a little with cruising MPG but for max power and acceleration it really doesn't work any better than a correctly set up MOPAR system. As I said in an earlier post, I have had my MOPAR system in place since the late 80's so I will most likely stick with MOPAR stuff.
MSD 6AL here as well. 520 lift in my .30 over 440 with an 850 Holley dbl pumper and she screams. Go with it. You'll never regret it. LOL, in fact, if you can wait til race season is over I'll sell ya mine. I'm stroking my 440 and upgrading to a 7AL3 over the winter.
I'm so freakin OLD school from being burned up by shoody part in the 80's, I still carry spare parts on long trips. Not just ignition.
7DUSTER3 said:
Mallory has allways made fine stuff. They make distributors for alot of companys.
My experi. with MSD is simple, "NEVERA AGAIN!!!!!!! NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER AGAIN!!!!!!"
Best I have ahd is the Jacobs Pro Street set up!
WOOOOOOOOOOOOW!!!!!!!
My biggest mistake, not keeping it!!!!!!!!!
+1! I have my dist. locked. Only way to go. It's not very difficult either. Only need a welder and the smallest amount of skill. If you have ONLY the smallest amount of skill, buy a couple junk dist. from a yard and practice first!!
demon seed
The Original Demon Seed
Spook, neat name by the way, I'm running almost exactly the same combo on my 383 as you, headers, 509 cam, ported heads, and Demon 750 DR'r but a Weiand single plane. I'm running the standard mopar distributor with the orange box with no problems (knock on wood). I've also run the orange box on other 383's and 440's over the years with narry a problem. For me it's the Devil you know.
Terry
redfastback
Don't ask me... my garage is empty
even if fbo sets the curve for YOUR engine in YOUR car, what if you put it in something else? won't be able to tune it yourself. msd is modular. i have had bad distributors out of the box by msd. so what.... the multi spark helps with cleaner combustion chambers below 3000rpm, but also offers a bigger spark. have you ever been shocked by a orange box? yeah right...... i did the stupid mistake of trying to check spark years ago on a msd system and i basically had a shock run up my arm, across my chest, and out the other arm to ground on the vehicle. my arm hurt for 2 days. is that a better spark??? damn right it is...........
once again, not trying to bash don at fbo. for a stock looking system, he is probably doing the best there is.
once again, not trying to bash don at fbo. for a stock looking system, he is probably doing the best there is.
Guitar Jones
aka Angry Johnny
I ran the Chrysler orange and chrome boxes for years. Switched to an MSD 6 and never looked back. It fixed all the plug fouling problems and ran cleaner than ever at low speeds. I now run an MSD 7 unit and their blaster coil with their wires. No problems what so ever in over 5 years. I use their distributor as well with basically no advance at all. 35 degrees all in at 1100 rpm's which is what the engine idles at.
Go to an NHRA or IHRA national event and look at what every Pro Stock car in the country runs for an ignition system. It's MSD!
Go to an NHRA or IHRA national event and look at what every Pro Stock car in the country runs for an ignition system. It's MSD!
I have only run the MOPAR system since pulling the original distributor and I haven't had any problems with fouling or anything else. Granted, I do not use the car as a driver and after more than 25 years I know exactly what the setup likes including running enough CAM2/Sunoco race gas in each tank to keep it happy.
Sure, all the Pro stock guys have sponsors and mountains of cash. I just can't see spending 3-5 times as much for a system that will not have any benefit in my application. If I was using my car as a driver and seeing a lot of use under 3,000 RPM I would probably go with it but mine is a show/strip car that will be running 4.10's and a 4-speed that has always run great. I am only considering having Don at least set up my distributor to see if there is another tenth or two I am missing.
Guitar Jones
aka Angry Johnny
My car is strictly a race car. I may have to sit at the line for over 8 seconds waiting for my tree to come down. I run my engine a little rich to keep it cooler. The MSD has never let me down, gives the option of a two step and and an RPM limiter.
I always had issues with the Mopar ignition, inconsistent hesitations, plug fouling and a host of other conditions that are not conducive to bracket racers. With the MSD I can run a set of plugs for 3 seasons. With the Mopar stuff I'd be lucky to last the weekend and never ever two weeks in a row.
Either way if you haven't tried it you just don't know what you're missing. You can kiss all you ignition problems goodbye. Don't knock it until you've tried it.
I always had issues with the Mopar ignition, inconsistent hesitations, plug fouling and a host of other conditions that are not conducive to bracket racers. With the MSD I can run a set of plugs for 3 seasons. With the Mopar stuff I'd be lucky to last the weekend and never ever two weeks in a row.
Either way if you haven't tried it you just don't know what you're missing. You can kiss all you ignition problems goodbye. Don't knock it until you've tried it.
That's the point. I don't have any ignition problems. Never have. I can definitely see the advantages of MSD for a race car as far as limiters and other options go but in a street/strip car that has always run great and never had any problems there is no way to justify the expense. I am not knocking MSD's stuff. It is definitely great stuff but in my application it would be wasted money.
It has been running great for 27 years. Why would I put in something else? I can tune it myself but I am not confortable welding my advance plate. To answer your question, I have been zapped by factory electronic ignition, you don't need an orange box or MSD to get bit. The MOPAR chrome box will provide all the spark 99% of cars will ever need up to more RPM than they will ever see and if your combination is good and it is tuned correctly you should not have any problems other than the occasional component failure that any system can have. As I said, I can see the advantages of MSD for a race car. Maybe for a daily driver that spends 90% of it's life under 3000 RPM if you have the money to throw at it but if your heads, cam, carb, manifold, compression, exhaust, and fuel delivery are correctly matched and you tune it well you will be fine without the extra expense. I got my entire MOPAR system for less than $200. Can you get an MSD ECU alone for that price?
superdart
Shade Tree Tinker Gnome.....
I HAD an orange box and Mopar (MSD) coil with Accel custom wires on my car (stock electronic distributor).
Now there is an FBO kit on my 360. The difference was night and day.
I agree, MSD is great, but capacitive discharge systems are overkill and money wasted on cars like mine.
Now there is an FBO kit on my 360. The difference was night and day.
I agree, MSD is great, but capacitive discharge systems are overkill and money wasted on cars like mine.
dusterdon
Well-Known Member
I have the Mallory 685 ignition box on my duster. Its similar to the msd Digital6 but lots cheaper to buy. It has the multispark, rev limiter, start retard, switchable retard ( which is really nice for nitrous users. I am running a 150 shot so I need to pull 6 degrees of timing out when I'm spraying. My ignition box is wired so that when I arm the nitrous system, the ignition box pulls the timing back 6 degrees. No accidental boom), a low speed rev limiter for the starting line, etc. All in all a very nice piece. By the way, if you have a big cam, the multispark DOES give you a noticable better idle quality and cleaner low speed operation.
moper
Well-Known Member
Wow, all kinds of polarized opinions here...lol. Because I'm in and out of FABO now (job change), a few observations: I've run roughly 30-40 dirfferent stock type Chrysler distributors. I've never experienced issues with reluctors out of phase, or timing fluctuations traced back to the advance plate. I do weld my own, and the $20 I stated for curving yourself is for a muffler shop to mig the hole smaller. I've had to have that done twice because my welder was either not bought yet, or on loan to a friend at the time. The reason I choose MSD is simple. It's easy to get parts, it's easy to see on charts what changes do what, and I can set them without ever having to wrench on the car. even by phone if the customer is savvy and has a couple wrenches. The factory distributors do wear out the bushings on the shaft. MSD billets dont. ever. I've bought 6 or seven, all are still in daily service. Mulitispark is usefull if the idle time and low speed operation mean anything to the owner. I agree, after the multispark goes out at 3K, they are no better than a stock type system that is set up properly. But idle quality and milage ARE important to me and my customers (street cars that race). As far as quality...I can tell you factory parts have left me stranded 3 times. But I still use them. "Junk" to me in any brand means the same issues repeat. I dont use Accell anything for that reason. Or Fram filters. Mopar ignitions have been known since 1971 for popping modules, and from the 60s for popping ballasts. Yet they are used constantly even by me. I've also been stranded by a Jacobs Energy Team. But, I still consider that to be the best part in terms of street ignitions. It's multispark, but it also extends and amplifies the single spark at high rpms unlike MSD. It's up to what you have to spend, and what you need it to do. The majority of street cars will benefit from MSD or similar technology. I've never run a Crane digital, or any Mallry controls. Although I did run a Unilite on my truck for 8 years. Now it's sitting on the core engine. So really, if you are "in the know" not too much is terrible. It's just a question of what is each worth to you, and what do you have to spend.
NiceFishEh
Well-Known Member
MSD's are analog. All the other comparable ECM's are digital. Which technology is better? With everthing being digital nowadays, why are people still buying MSD?
My new Summit catalouge made an interesting comparison. Just curious. I'm running FBO right now and it's working well. Don't know what my next box will be.
A
Ace
Guest
I think the vast majority of all the ingition problems people have experienced regardless of brand or type, can probably be traced to secondary wiring issues like bad grounds, faulty or worn out connectors and the like. Resistence builds up in one circuit or another, things heat up and problems begin. Properly installed and maintained, they are all stone axe reliable.
moper
Well-Known Member
NiceFish, I know they are still analog. I think they sell because they are still cheap for a decent ignition. I do think solid state is the way to go, but cost is still a factor, and the analog still works. The best thing to do is compare features. Many have things like rev controls, timing retards, rpm switches, and stuff that if added externally to the MSDs would be more expensive, and harder to find mountings for.
You have a good point Moper. Price is allways an issue. Performance is good and rep. goes a long way. Couple this with advertiseing, and doing it well, nobody will ever look away from your product.
Besides, you see MSD advrtised for free on the local hot rods and at the race ways. One might think there the only game in town if you didn't look up once in awhile.
Besides, you see MSD advrtised for free on the local hot rods and at the race ways. One might think there the only game in town if you didn't look up once in awhile.
moper
Well-Known Member
I've also heard "off the record" that MSD is planning a revamp because of all the cheaper copies out now. I look for function first. Does it/can it do what I need, then price. I wouldnt avoid anything that fits what I need. In fact, my '70 plow had a facotyr single point for the 8 years I plowed with it. Because it started. Every time. No matter what. No chance of failure...lol.
NiceFishEh
Well-Known Member
According to the ad in the Summit catalouge, they were all in the same ball park price. The Summit piece was, I think, $159 with rev limiter. Uses less amps and has more adjustability.
Just don't think they have been proven yet.
ramcharger
Dismember
Come on man, don't tell me you've never had a condenser short on you. LOL.
The Summit boxes are made by Mallory with some different options to prevent competing directly with them. For my needs, i will be going with the Mallory 685 box as Dusterdon has.
Digital ignitions allow for the use of controls that would not normally be availible without add-on boxes.
If you had two ignition control boxes, one analog and one digital with no options on either, they would function identically assuming the basic components were identical (step up transformer, capacitor, etc.).
73dodgeman
Well-Known Member
Fbo On My 360, 72 Scamp, No Problems Yet,
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