Who should I buy a 727 or 904 from?

[Mad Dart]

I have a question. Why would someone want to pay 250% more ++ for the same transmission that another Vendor can build for 250% Less?? They are using the same exact parts and what is funny the other Vendor that is cheaper actually makes the parts "Inhouse" that the "BIG NAME" Vendors puts in their transmissions.......this cracks me up.
Transmission guys are one of the biggest rip offs in the business in my opinion. You are buying a NAME not the trans is how that goes. I would rather go to the source than go to an assembler of someone else's parts.

When I got prices for my 727, I called several of the "Big Name" Trans builders and I got prices from $4500.00 to $7200.00 for the exact same transmission I got for a hell of a lot less using the same parts! I understand the buy low and sell high "American Dream" but these guys are straight out ripping people off.... I have been holding this in and now it is out there. The Torque Flight Trans is one of the easiest transmissions to work on also. It does not take a Rocket Scientist to build one of these either. Check out the Youtube Videos and you will see what I am talking about.

Let the arrows fly

 

[BRONZEBEE]

I work for transmission shop and i like your opinion.I shake my head on what people are paying of the internet for transmission shipped to there door.
Did you ever think that you are paying for the knowledge that transmission builder has?...
After all it's not rocket science,i have seen build a very nice car with some very complicated electronics.
So why didn't you build the transmission too?
I like to help out when possible,hell i have even offered my labor for free.The person that built your transmission,if he reads this provides his service to help car guys finish there goals on there car builds.
Yes,it kind of peeves me that you wrote that but i will get over it,no harm done i still respect what you have done.:cheers:

 

[USCG CHARGER]

I wouldn't walk from the best in the business because a call wasn't returned in a few hours....

try a few days.. if you own a business and you fail to return a call or an email in a timely manor then it's your loss.

Martin Saine

Martin actually called yesterday.. I told the the truth. I told him I was really interested in his trans b/c of this reputation but when he didn't contact me for a few days on a simple quote then he lost my business b/c I purchased from someone who took the time to talk with me. Martin is a nice guy and from my understanding has a great product, but at this point I went else where.

I bought from Joe at Tranzact.. His values alone set him apart from others. Not to mention he actually makes the parts others sell for mark up. One of the fastest SB mopar guys around (Leon) runs his stuff with no issues for yrs. His pricing was a fraction of what I would have paid one of the big names. To each is their own though... I guess we will see at the end of the 1320 if I made the right choice. :burnout:

 

[Mad Dart]

I work for transmission shop and i like your opinion.I shake my head on what people are paying of the internet for transmission shipped to there door.
Did you ever think that you are paying for the knowledge that transmission builder has?...
After all it's not rocket science,i have seen build a very nice car with some very complicated electronics.
So why didn't you build the transmission too?
I like to help out when possible,hell i have even offered my labor for free.The person that built your transmission,if he reads this provides his service to help car guys finish there goals on there car builds.
Yes,it kind of peeves me that you wrote that but i will get over it,no harm done i still respect what you have done.:cheers:

I don't have the time to build my own or I would. Plus for the cost of the parts alone, I would have had more into the build than buying it already done.
Yes I understand there are tricks to the trade on assembly. I also chose Tranzact of Indy, they have been around for alot longer than most of the other BIG NAME guys.
Mopars are expensive enough and there is no reason for the fellow MOPAR guys to Gouge us for the same exact thing you can buy down the street from the manufacturer of the parts they are using. If you are a Boaster and a Braggart and want to tell everyone I paid 7K for my trans be my guest that is not for me. I would rather be the underdog passing those crackers up with less $$ invested and have them leaving with their tail between their legs.
I understand the cost of running a business but just because someone has a HUGE Overhead that is not my problem.
Put it this way, I saved so much $$ by not buying from the BIG NAME guys that it will pay for all of my body work to Primer/Ready for paint.:cheers:

Also who is actually assembling those big $$ transmissions?? I can tell you it is not the owner, it is some tech making $15.00 per hour that does not have a vested interest and he is done with assembly in less than 4 hours start to finish.

 

[Supershafts]

try a few days.. if you own a business and you fail to return a call or an email in a timely manor then it's your loss.

Martin actually called yesterday.. I told the the truth. I told him I was really interested in his trans b/c of this reputation but when he didn't contact me for a few days on a simple quote then he lost my business b/c I purchased from someone who took the time to talk with me. Martin is a nice guy and from my understanding has a great product, but at this point I went else where.

I bought from Joe at Tranzact.. His values alone set him apart from others. Not to mention he actually makes the parts others sell for mark up. One of the fastest SB mopar guys around (Leon) runs his stuff with no issues for yrs. His pricing was a fraction of what I would have paid one of the big names. To each is their own though... I guess we will see at the end of the 1320 if I made the right choice.

I have had times when i just cant get back to the phone and i have met that same customer again after they couldn't wait the added minutes or hours..... just to do the same thing again over except right this time....

If i gotta wait for steak im not gonna eat **** cause it's here now. . . . .

It's like my nephew, don't wait to go to the bathroom after your holding it in for 2 hours and can't make it and blame someone for being in the bathroom, do something about it when you 1st realize.

Waiting till the clock has ran out the time to jump on a decision isn't good.

MS and Rick are the pioneers, MS did all the billet inputs and outputs that everyone copies poorly, Rick has many 1st's also, in fact i have the 1st externally adjustable 727 made, and it still is perfect as it was then, that trans has never been touched so if you have any idea of the 1st externally adjustable trans thats how many years that thing is living for, now others are having there stuff copied in china. . .claiming they made it or better yet pioneered it.

All i know is i have blown up many a 727 and have only had 2 builders than can build them to handle RR and DR and im not back under the car in a month or 2.

Maybe others finally took pride in what they do, im not willing to gamble on anyone else after having gone thru 12 different builders

 

[Mad Dart]

I have had times when i just cant get back to the phone and i have met that same customer again after they couldn't wait the added minutes or hours..... just to do the same thing again over except right this time....

If i gotta wait for steak im not gonna eat **** cause it's here now. . . . .

It's like my nephew, don't wait to go to the bathroom after your holding it in for 2 hours and can't make it and blame someone for being in the bathroom, do something about it when you 1st realize.

Waiting till the clock has ran out the time to jump on a decision isn't good.

MS and Rick are the pioneers, MS did all the billet inputs and outputs that everyone copies poorly, Rick has many 1st's also, in fact i have the 1st externally adjustable 727 made, and it still is perfect as it was then, that trans has never been touched so if you have any idea of the 1st externally adjustable trans thats how many years that thing is living for, now others are having there stuff copied in china. . .claiming they made it or better yet pioneered it.

I think everyone can agree that the BIG NAME guys build a good product, that is not the concern. It is when you are being Raped by an Elephant in the $$ department for the exact same thing you can get down the street is the concern here. MOPARS are expensive enough and people use this "MOPAR" as an excuse to screw us over again and again. I know you can agree this has been happening for years.

 

[USCG CHARGER]

I hear you supershafts, however I don't like tge taste of **** so I'm not Gonna be eating that anytime soon. I actually didn't wait untill the last minute to buy transmission I waited till last minute to post on this forum about them but I been searching the transmission for over two years now. I will agree with you that ms is one of the best in the business but when I'm going to spend close to $2000 on a transmission I expect a phone call are an email to be made within 48 hours and that wasn't done. I still might get his torque converter though I talked to him yesterday and he knows what I want so ironically I'm actually still waiting on an email from him for a tour converter quote.

 

[Supershafts]

I think everyone can agree that the BIG NAME guys build a good product, that is not the concern. It is when you are being Raped by an Elephant in the $$ department for the exact same thing you can get down the street is the concern here. MOPARS are expensive enough and people use this "MOPAR" as an excuse to screw us over again and again. I know you can agree this has been happening for years.

I agree, there are some places inflating stuff simply by name, then there are others actually selling quality U.S. made stuff and others sellin china at overpriced U.S. made stuff prices. I don't shop when it comes to transmissions i have spent more time under the cars changing them then i ever ever want to again, i met these 2 guys and tried them and not either as faulted.

It's like my area of business the only real differences are the equipment which is important in the balancing area and the knowledge that so many shops have no damned clue and some have the big advertizing campaigns and get the big money and know nothing, others selling cheap china and then the ones selling china and making you believe it is U.S. and getting paid for it.
I see it all day online and even all day in my shop, i always tell people see your local driveline shop, deal with your local companies and if they say they can't have them call me and i'll explain how they can.
But in this case i went thru every single local guy TWICE and then the next 2 closest states.

.

 

[Mad Dart]

Here is another example..... All the BIG NAME builders quoted me $325.00 - $350.00 for an Aluminum Finned pan option....
I bought one for $123.00 here... http://lpwracing.com/Trans_Pans/Deep_Transmission_Pans.html

So for bolting on a Different Pan they are a making huge profit of 275% and it is probably more than that because they get wholesale prices. So I would say they are making a 300% ++ profit on this part alone. Not to count the rest of the build.........

 

[Supershafts]

I went thru the same issue recently, i had bought the AL pans years ago and they weren't 365, and i went to get one for the dak and jeep and the local guys were either 390 and the other was 575.
I said no not a AL sheetmetal pan, the regular cast al pans with the fins, guy says that is the pan for $575.

I had another issue myself also when it comes to me i'll post it

 

[John at CRT]

Joe at Transact of Indy. No Core Charge. He built me a stout transmission to go behind my Twin Turbo Motor. I just got it about 1 week or so ago. Pro Billet Transbrake, billet front drum Race Clutches and all the go fast goodies. He puts the transmission on his trans dyno before shipment and puts it through its paces and adjusts everything making sure it is good to go before he ships it out.

From Joes Web Site:

Current Torque-Flite core charge is $150 - subject to change with market

http://www.gotranzact.com/trans_page1.html

 

[HotLines]

When I bought my push button BB 727 Dynamic transmission, I was given a full 1 year unconditional guarantee which was explained to me. They said, do what you want, drive it, race it and if it breaks we'll replace it. Here it is 2012 and never had a problem at any RPM and I been up in the 8000 range many times..

 

[Mad Dart]

From Joes Web Site:

Current Torque-Flite core charge is $150 - subject to change with market

http://www.gotranzact.com/trans_page1.html

Your STONED... I said to call him and he does not charge a core. And just so you know USCG CHARGER has already purchased his trans from him and there was NO CORE CHARGE.... It was also less than 1/2 your price for the same Trans that you Rape people for on a daily basis.

Also Joe doesn't Re-Package other peoples parts jack the price up and put his name on them like you do! Yeah I heard all about your business practices. I wouldn't even buy a gasket from you.... ROTFLMFAO

 

[John at CRT]

No sir I am not stoned. If Joe has no core charge, why is it listed on his web site? Check it for your self, I am sure by Monday, it will be removed. http://www.gotranzact.com/

I do know that Joe prices are less than mine, I would be able to charge less if I did transmission in my back yard garage like Joe does. Google Earth his address and see for yourself. Here is the address 503 N. Arthur Dr.Indianapolis, IN 46280-1331

I run a business in a shop with over head, I have payroll, I have business insurance, I have to pay Fed, State and Local Taxes, I have to pay a Inventory tax, hell the and dam OSHA posters I have to have hanging in my shop cost 50 bucks. Joe doing what he does in his back yard garage, does not see the overhead I do. When I was younger, I did start out in my garage at home, But that is where I stated, not where I ended up.

And thats ok, But if you think, your getting the same or more of a trans for less money, then my friend your very wrong. On every trans I offer, I list a complete list of components that come in each transmission as listed on my web site and in my printed catalogs.

Check Joes web site, he has very little listed, and so there is no confusion, I build every transmission. Not one transmission from my store has ever been built my anybody but me.

If you think Joes makes ALL his parts in house, your wrong again. Last weekend, I was at the Indy trade show, I seen Joe, we talked a little bit. Just bla bla bla here and there.
But I also talked to Rick Allison from A&A, and he tells me that from time to time Joes buys parts from A&A, Now is that "In House" to you?

There are parts I offer from A&A, TCS, B&M, Alto, and others, But I also make my own parts. When I sell a part from lets says A&A, its listed as a A&A. You can see that by looking at my web site. www.CopeRacingTrans.com

In 1994, I did buy 3 count them 3 trans brakes from Joes, and I never bought anything elce from him since, So if you think Joe is selling parts to other big name transmission shops, your wrong again, and if all this info comes from Joe, well you have been duked.

Look, I dont know you, and I hope your happy with what you bought, same with USCG CHARGER, I am not looking for a dog fight here, But when I see posting that a flat out untrue, I need to speak up.

PS, Tell Joe Mama, thanks for the Biz, Joes brother bought parts from me this year, and last year, and he runs CRT stickers on his race car.

 

[HEMI-ITIS]

I went thru the same issue recently, i had bought the AL pans years ago and they weren't 365, and i went to get one for the dak and jeep and the local guys were either 390 and the other was 575.
I said no not a AL sheetmetal pan, the regular cast al pans with the fins, guy says that is the pan for $575.

I had another issue myself also when it comes to me i'll post it

Summit>>>>> http://www.summitracing.com/parts/BMM-10280/

Marty,I'm surprised you don't use anybody local for your trans:violent1:
I bought a PRO TORQUE converter because he's here on the Island and my trans guy is here also.I prefer to deal local when I can,the last time I had to mail order is when I bought 2 SV1 carbs:happy1:

 

[Mad Dart]

CRT, not everybody works on their website and has up to the date info. I run several of my own websites and I myself only mess with them every 6 mos.

Like I stated earlier, it's not my fault someone has a huge over head which is what you just verified what I thought was true. I also never said that Joe supplies people with his parts. I said go to the person who makes them and you will save $$.

You are twisting everything around to make yourself look good and feel better about what you do to people is all.

Also the TF transmission is not rocket science as you try to put it off as by how much you Extract from people for them.

 

[crackedback]

Auto transmission companies/work since the beginning of time have charged WAY too much and act like it's a black science... It's not limited to the mopar community!

TF's are so simple a monkey could build them. Grab a video, ATSG manual and munroe book and you can build a stout trans for less than $400 with a bunch of frills in it. I can build solid 727's for about $200-250 in parts. Does it Others I see charge north of $800 for the same stuff.

There's a local guy that builds some great stuff, some of it running low 9's on juice for under 1K. Doesn't have a billet drum in it, but that's an easy upgrade if you wanted it. Last one my friend got, with a brake was ~$800, add a drum and it's 1300-1400.

Pick your parts, pay your money.

 

[HEMI-ITIS]

For the guys bashing the big name retail shops,how do you think they got to be "big name"??Thet started in thier garage and worked thier way through the ranks to have a large operation with overhead and taxes and PROPER insurance etc.The guys that say it's not rocket science should just do it yourself or like me,have a friend do it for them at a greatly discounted price.It's no difference than buying at Macy's or Filenes basement,it's biz.I respect the big & small name guys for what they do and the huge customer base they have built for themselves.To call them rip-offs is just insulting and not needed.For the 20% of the guys that can get it done on the cheap,congrats,for the 80% of the guys that use the big names,thanks for thier support so they can sponcer MOPAR races and give-a-ways at the big shows.Same goes for the torque converter builders.I was willing to pay the price for a converter that will stand up in my 900+ hp street car:glasses7:

 

[Mad Dart]

Well if a guy says he builds every transmission himself. The operation clearly can not be that big and I think someone just stuck their foot in their mouth. The question here is "How much can a Pig Eat?".
Other options are available is all I can say. Some of these guys on this site never get to finish their cars because they are over paying for things like this.

Here is an Example...$2000.00 for a Trans that will hold 1200+ HP/TQ or $4800.00 for a Trans that will hold 1200+ HP/TQ.. Both built done and shipped to your door for a shipping charge of $250.00...Both have a good reputation for holding up to the power with virtually no complaints to be found anywhere........ Hmmm that is an easy one.

Oh I forgot, overpaying for something is always good.

 

[John at CRT]

Mad Dart, Because you say that you heard about my “business practices”, and you have drag me and my business through the mud, I feel I must set the record straight. I know that I can not change your mind, but there are 1000s of FABO members here, and as I am also a member here (since 2005) I will show the FABO members that you are dead wrong.

Lets take a look at your “Stout” transmission with “ALL the go fast goodies” Below is a picture of Joes trans that you bought, I see it has a nice black paint job, and I also see that Joe painted over the front seal, and he pained the input shaft and stator shaft? He could not take the time to tape the shafts so no paint get on it? I also see that you bought a deep aluminum oil pan and installed it your self, My trans brake transmission comes with my deep aluminum oil pan, Joes does not. So much for “All the go fast goodies” your words not mine.

I do not paint my transmissions, After all my cases have been hot tanked, they are glass beaded, along with the trail housing, pump cover, input & out put shafts, and many other parts. This process takes much more time and labor than doing a quick rattle can paint job.

I also see in your pictures that Joes uses a cast 2nd gear lever, my 4.2 lever is billet steel, Nothing wrong with a cast lever, but witch one is more “Stout”? I also install a low reverse billet servo, I see you don’t have that. My 2nd gear HD band struts are also billet steel, Is yours?

Now, lets take a look at the inside of one of my units. Here you will see the attention to detail that goes into every one of my units. I send out all the bolts, valve body screws and plates, to be gold irradiate plated, I know, that does not make the trans stronger, or faster, but thats how I want to build my units.
You can also see how nice the case looks when glass beaded, it gives that new look finish.

It is very clear, that there is a difference between the two units, they are not “ The very same transmission for less” your words not mine, I do not rape anyone as you claim. Even Mr. Magoo can see the difference. You get what you pay for.
There is one thing I have learned from Joe, and that is I learned what NOT to do on a build, and how NOT to run a trans shop. Thank you for taking the time to read this. John Cope

 

[Mad Dart]

Yup sounds like your Levers/ Band Strut & Billet Servo is worth another $2800.00. Pretty is always better.. I agree with you 100%. Oh and mine did come with a deep pan, it was just steel so you know.

 

[USCG CHARGER]

Come on guys is ridiculous but in all defensive to Joe you know how ridiculous it sounds to say that your transmission is better because ur is bead blasted versus rattle canned or because you use gold bolts versus regular bolts?

 

[John at CRT]

Very ture, how ever I can only point out what I see in the pictures. I also was trying to make the point, that the transmissions are not the same for less money.

Can you list the parts you get for the money? I know I can, its listed on my web site and my printed catalog.

 

[Mad Dart]

Im done with this thread. More power to CRT.

I will leave with this though...

My women must weigh over 325lbs, they are beautiful to me..

This ride is beautiful to me also, just to let you all know.

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[Supershafts]

No sir I am not stoned. If Joe has no core charge, why is it listed on his web site? Check it for your self, I am sure by Monday, it will be removed. http://www.gotranzact.com/

I do know that Joe prices are less than mine, I would be able to charge less if I did transmission in my back yard garage like Joe does. Google Earth his address and see for yourself. Here is the address 503 N. Arthur Dr.Indianapolis, IN 46280-1331

I run a business in a shop with over head, I have payroll, I have business insurance, I have to pay Fed, State and Local Taxes, I have to pay a Inventory tax, hell the and dam OSHA posters I have to have hanging in my shop cost 50 bucks. Joe doing what he does in his back yard garage, does not see the overhead I do. When I was younger, I did start out in my garage at home, But that is where I stated, not where I ended up.

And thats ok, But if you think, your getting the same or more of a trans for less money, then my friend your very wrong. On every trans I offer, I list a complete list of components that come in each transmission as listed on my web site and in my printed catalogs.

Check Joes web site, he has very little listed, and so there is no confusion, I build every transmission. Not one transmission from my store has ever been built my anybody but me.

If you think Joes makes ALL his parts in house, your wrong again. Last weekend, I was at the Indy trade show, I seen Joe, we talked a little bit. Just bla bla bla here and there.
But I also talked to Rick Allison from A&A, and he tells me that from time to time Joes buys parts from A&A, Now is that "In House" to you?

There are parts I offer from A&A, TCS, B&M, Alto, and others, But I also make my own parts. When I sell a part from lets says A&A, its listed as a A&A. You can see that by looking at my web site. www.CopeRacingTrans.com

In 1994, I did buy 3 count them 3 trans brakes from Joes, and I never bought anything elce from him since, So if you think Joe is selling parts to other big name transmission shops, your wrong again, and if all this info comes from Joe, well you have been duked.

Look, I dont know you, and I hope your happy with what you bought, same with USCG CHARGER, I am not looking for a dog fight here, But when I see posting that a flat out untrue, I need to speak up.

PS, Tell Joe Mama, thanks for the Biz, Joes brother bought parts from me this year, and last year, and he runs CRT stickers on his race car.

I have to agree with this, unless you really know WTF you're looking at you don't know CRT's trans is over priced.

Rick (A&A trans) built me a trans with all the bells and whistles and light stuff and the 1st externally adj built 727, at that time i paid over 3500, lightened stuff, all kinds of things i have never heard of before in a trans. . .

That trans is used in a heavy car over 800hp on other adjustments it can see 1500hp that trans is used for drag and road racing.

I spent over 3500 10 years ago and never once had any issue, now guess how many times i spent less than that with other people altogether, with other people i spent over a total of 25,000 on broken transmissions with bs excuses, not one but many, you know how f'king tiring it gets to make a pass or a A lap and the trans is junk AGAIN....

So i spent 3500 plus and not a single issue in 10 years.

See MSP does some stuff for the killer torque monster (now everyone copies his parts) and never again been under that for any reason.

So i make the big HAPPY payment to those guys for the ability to not see how quick i can become at taking transmissions out..

Sounds like John at CRT is like me, i like how from a picture he was able to deduct the stupidity, maybe you don't see it, but that paint is going to end up somewhere...

AND something i tell ALL MY CUSTOMERS paint is something you use to hide things. . .

Summit>>>>> http://www.summitracing.com/parts/BMM-10280/

Marty,I'm surprised you don't use anybody local for your trans:violent1:
I bought a PRO TORQUE converter because he's here on the Island and my trans guy is here also.I prefer to deal local when I can,the last time I had to mail order is when I bought 2 SV1 carbs:happy1:

I can tell you a story from each builder TWICE or more. . . .then i gave another local builder a chance again after everyone swore up and down the best this and that, so being that it's been more than 15 years since i have used one locally and guess who's going to be taking a transmission out again with less than 1500 miles on it.... and this thing is not any of my big power maker toys, and it started going south after a few play dates. . . .i can quick myself in the balls

Never, NEVER ever again. . . .

I use local builders for my machine work and motor stuff, i do my own shafts and diffs, suspension and other perf work.

But transmissions i have blown up everyones from brooklyn to selden twice, all the big names between brooklyn and selden, forget the thousands wasted its my time wasted under the cars that really pisses me off. . .

My own brother has a trans issue, he says "Marty my trans went!, i said Mikey call Rick or Martin" he didn't went with a local guy...

He wound up spending more than he would have if he went with Rick or Martin.... But he has been without his vehicle for more than 40 days altogether with all the mishaps and china **** being used and other issues and in and out, in and out....

So i said "Mikey WTF did i tell you to do????? he said "I know i thought this price was much cheaper and he was close"
I said "his price was not cheaper, you're over 4800 with this bs now and made the thing slower listening to there stupid **** and putting in that fat heavy billet TC"