Why is it so hard to get good advice !!???
- Thread starter Kern Dog
- Start date
-
What do you think of THIS cam:
Hydraulic roller with some punch...
http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/...RyYXVsaWM=&searchmode=partnumber&partid=24186
Too much for a 500 inch engine? The duration isn't a whole lot more than the MP '509, but the lift sure is. A LSA of 110 helps driveability and the roller virtually eliminates the idea of a cam failure.
Hydraulic roller with some punch...
http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/...RyYXVsaWM=&searchmode=partnumber&partid=24186
Too much for a 500 inch engine? The duration isn't a whole lot more than the MP '509, but the lift sure is. A LSA of 110 helps driveability and the roller virtually eliminates the idea of a cam failure.
moper
Well-Known Member
Too much? hell no. When I look at cams for stroker engines you really have to get into some larger grinds before you reach "too much". 258/260 is enough to have issues running power brakes, but it's far from too large. In fact, I'd like to see another .040-.060" lift on it with 1.5s. That helps spread out that lift and usually means less spring can be used. In a hydraulic roller that can be an advantage because they need so much spring anyway.
I am already running a vacuum can for the power brakes. It actually works well.
I have a 1.6 ratio rocker arm kit ready to go in. I was going to try it with the '509 cam in place, but since I am leaning toward changing cams, I see no need to buy two sets of pushrods.
The lift at 1.6 ratio comes up to .576/.592.
moper
Well-Known Member
You may want to verify that you have enough spring for 1.6s and hydraulic rollers.
Use a long duration cam. such as a oval track cam. Worked for me with 10.5 - 1. 302- 465
Not long ago there was someone on this site selling 499 oval track cam kits for $90. I bought two just for this reason. Also disconect your vacuum advance and go with 15-35 mechanical advance. weld inner part of slots to 3/8 and take out the large spring.
This works good for the street but you will still need race fuel if you load the motor with sticky tires on a launch. Wheel spin doesn't hurt a motor.
Not long ago there was someone on this site selling 499 oval track cam kits for $90. I bought two just for this reason. Also disconect your vacuum advance and go with 15-35 mechanical advance. weld inner part of slots to 3/8 and take out the large spring.
This works good for the street but you will still need race fuel if you load the motor with sticky tires on a launch. Wheel spin doesn't hurt a motor.
Today I called Dwayne Porter. THAT guy can talk engines for days!
He was surprised with the cranking compression numbers that I reported. He said that the '509 cam is a long duration cam that should have had cranking compression numbers under 200. I told him that I had 2 guages and used the one that showed the highest numbers.
Dwayne suggested I finish the install of the 1.6 ratio Mancini rocker arms. The higher ratio will make the cam act larger. The effects on lift will be the most dramatic, but there will be some slight gains in duration too. like other smart engine guys have said, to reduce cylinder pressure, I'll need a later intake closing event. I asked about retarding the cam. He thought it was worth a try but made a few suggestions.
First) I'll install the 1.6 rocker arms and do a cranking compression test to determine what difference they make.
Second) pull the timing cover and retard the cam. Do not reassemble yet. Do another cranking compression test. If the numbers drop further and are below 185-190, button it back up and drive it. If the numbers do not change, return it to the straight up position and reassemble.
Dwayne had no specific recommendation for a replacement cam. I was hoping to get some advice there. He did feel that a later intake closing would help, but was wary of suggesting too big of a cam for fear of losing low end power. Instead he said that I could benefit from some distributor tuning, primarily slowing the advance curve.
So I installed the rockers on the 1357 side and measured the pushrod length. I came up with 9 1/8". Summit racing has some Crane pushrods in Reno, so I'll drive there tomorrow. Hopefully by this time tomorrow I'll have some good news to report.
He was surprised with the cranking compression numbers that I reported. He said that the '509 cam is a long duration cam that should have had cranking compression numbers under 200. I told him that I had 2 guages and used the one that showed the highest numbers.
Dwayne suggested I finish the install of the 1.6 ratio Mancini rocker arms. The higher ratio will make the cam act larger. The effects on lift will be the most dramatic, but there will be some slight gains in duration too. like other smart engine guys have said, to reduce cylinder pressure, I'll need a later intake closing event. I asked about retarding the cam. He thought it was worth a try but made a few suggestions.
First) I'll install the 1.6 rocker arms and do a cranking compression test to determine what difference they make.
Second) pull the timing cover and retard the cam. Do not reassemble yet. Do another cranking compression test. If the numbers drop further and are below 185-190, button it back up and drive it. If the numbers do not change, return it to the straight up position and reassemble.
Dwayne had no specific recommendation for a replacement cam. I was hoping to get some advice there. He did feel that a later intake closing would help, but was wary of suggesting too big of a cam for fear of losing low end power. Instead he said that I could benefit from some distributor tuning, primarily slowing the advance curve.
So I installed the rockers on the 1357 side and measured the pushrod length. I came up with 9 1/8". Summit racing has some Crane pushrods in Reno, so I'll drive there tomorrow. Hopefully by this time tomorrow I'll have some good news to report.
To answer your posted question "Why is it so hard to get good advice !!???" It's simply. People give excellent advice on here everyday. It's getting people to frakken listen to it that's the kicker.
Ha....
Yeah, I can be a little late getting to the party, but I always get there eventually!
Yeah, I can be a little late getting to the party, but I always get there eventually!
moper
Well-Known Member
That's great. Dwayne is a great resource. I'll be very interested to see what just the ratio change does for the pressure. Please post that regardless of the result...lol.
-Sledgehammer-
Mopar Performance
My engine is .051 "quench" - .024 in the hole and .027 HG 11.89 to 1 static and 8.2ish to 8.8ish dynamic depending on altitude with a cam with an intake closing at 73 ABDC and cranks at 170ish summertime DA and around 180ish cooler weather with a jump box on the battery.(probably why my car is such a dud) Would a thinner HG help me out some? I think so.How I got my piston in the hole value I raised the piston out of and got true TDC with and indicator, I then put the indicator with a deck bridge on the side of the piston close to the wall rocked the piston to the high side then to the low side in the bore and divided by 2 and came up with .024. piston is a diamond with .0065 piston to bore / -19.3cc -- RACED on local 93
The right cam makes a difference.
Today I was able to get the 1.6 rocker arms and pushrods in on the left side. The story I've heard is to set the adjusters to sit 1/4 to 1/2 turn pash zero lash. I went about 3/8... right in the middle.
I wanted to do another compression test to see what difference the higher ratio rockers would make.
I have had a few people comment that my compression numbers seemed abnormally high, but I thought I did everything right. Today I reached for the guage and noticed this...
I wanted to do another compression test to see what difference the higher ratio rockers would make.
I have had a few people comment that my compression numbers seemed abnormally high, but I thought I did everything right. Today I reached for the guage and noticed this...
The guage on the LEFT is the one I used before. It STARTS at 30 PSI !
I decided to retest the engine, but now I had the 1.6 arms on the left and the stock stuff still on the right.
Check out THESE numbers with the different guage. What I found interesting is how close the numbers are on the left side. My guess is that the new rocker arms are built to be more consistant and it shows.
I decided to retest the engine, but now I had the 1.6 arms on the left and the stock stuff still on the right.
Check out THESE numbers with the different guage. What I found interesting is how close the numbers are on the left side. My guess is that the new rocker arms are built to be more consistant and it shows.
I am simply amazed that I missed the mistake with the guage. What a stupid move.
The new readings are getting closer to what should run on pump gas. Being under 190 makes me feel better. After installing the 1.6 rockers on the right side and adjusting everything, I'll recheck the right side numbers. After that, I'll see if retarding the cam makes any difference. I am hoping to see another 5 point drop.
I know that I am leaving power on the table by NOT stepping up to the bigger cam right now. I do intend to make additional changes over the winter. I just need to generate some more money! I've been selling stuff at swap meets so I don't have to tap into my savings to do all this stuff.
I intend to have the heads ported and matched to the intake. While the heads are off, I may decide to go with a tighter quench using a Cometic .027 MLS. At that point I'll look at my options for a camshaft. I probably will stick with a flat tappet but I'm not sure if I will go to a solid. I like the idea of the EDM lifters that deliver oil to the cam lobe through the lifter base. Breaking in a cam when it is 45-55 degrees outside is quite helpful in keeping the car cool.
The new readings are getting closer to what should run on pump gas. Being under 190 makes me feel better. After installing the 1.6 rockers on the right side and adjusting everything, I'll recheck the right side numbers. After that, I'll see if retarding the cam makes any difference. I am hoping to see another 5 point drop.
I know that I am leaving power on the table by NOT stepping up to the bigger cam right now. I do intend to make additional changes over the winter. I just need to generate some more money! I've been selling stuff at swap meets so I don't have to tap into my savings to do all this stuff.
I intend to have the heads ported and matched to the intake. While the heads are off, I may decide to go with a tighter quench using a Cometic .027 MLS. At that point I'll look at my options for a camshaft. I probably will stick with a flat tappet but I'm not sure if I will go to a solid. I like the idea of the EDM lifters that deliver oil to the cam lobe through the lifter base. Breaking in a cam when it is 45-55 degrees outside is quite helpful in keeping the car cool.
On the right track. Keep on truckin.
I have a Barry Grant 850 with vacuum secondaries. 85 primary jets, 92 secondaries with a 3.5 PV. I am thinking of changing to a higher number Power Valve.
T67POWER
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Sep 30, 2009
- Messages
- 669
- Reaction score
- 10
The secondary's might not be coming in soon enough and it's leaning out.
I would run at least a 950 cfm carb with mechanical secondary's.
A race carb with no choke for sure.--better fuel curve--
A race fuel curve is richer over all.
If your running a duel plain intake i would get a 1050 cfm carb.
PROFORM / QUICK FUEL / THE NEW HOLLEY......
I would run at least a 950 cfm carb with mechanical secondary's.
A race carb with no choke for sure.--better fuel curve--
A race fuel curve is richer over all.
If your running a duel plain intake i would get a 1050 cfm carb.
PROFORM / QUICK FUEL / THE NEW HOLLEY......
-Sledgehammer-
Mopar Performance
In the 500" engine I had in my challenger I ran the Comp XR286R solid roller... I ran that same cam with ported 906's / ported eddy rpm's / and Indy CNC EZ heads done by Modern Cylinder Head. I did go from 1.5's to 1.6's to Harland 1.7's on the Indy's ... I really liked that cam and it has an Intake Closing of 69 ! I raced it on Local 93 also... Only time out with the Indy's it took my 3850lb chally to 10.6 in summer weather and crappy 1.55 60ft. (I sold the car after that)
I have a sound bite of that cam if you wanna hear it....
Im running a 496 14 in the hole 27 thick head gaskets flat top pistons 590 mp cam retared 2. 11.5 no ping on 93 oct.440 source alum heads.tunnel ram 2 600 edds
The rocker arms are in and adjusted. I still have a few things to do but should be able to fire it up today. New spark plugs, new wires. I am waiting on the windage tray from Jegs... the new style that has molded rubber to eliminate the need for gaskets. I have a new Milodon 6 quart HEMI pan and pickup.
whiteeagle
Well-Known Member
You can read just about anything on the net. Anything. But running 10:1 and over 200 compression it is going to be an ongoing fight to run good on street gas. 91 is not really 91. In the early 70's late 60's they dropped the octane to a ridiculous all time low. To make up for this they changed the way they computed their ratings. 91 at the pump now is actually in the low 80's. All you can do is keep listening to everyone and keep throwing money at it or just sit back, relax and add octane booster @ fill up time.
-Sledgehammer-
Mopar Performance
read the fine print on those autozone bottles..... 1pt = .1
I went out for a drive today.
First up, it idled lower than before. I made no adjustments to the distributor or idle set screw. It also idled smoother, as if the additional lift tamed the cam's duration ??
I have about a 50/50 mix of 110 and 91 adding up to about a 1/4 tank because I just dumped the last 2 1/2 gallons of 110 in before I changed the rocker arms. ZERO detonation right now, I'll have to wait and fill up with 91 to see how it runs on straight pump premium. It may be a moot point though. As is, it does feel a little faster than before, but with all this chatter about how much faster the car could be with a bigger cam.....I may be tearing back into the engine sooner than I thought.
First up, it idled lower than before. I made no adjustments to the distributor or idle set screw. It also idled smoother, as if the additional lift tamed the cam's duration ??
I have about a 50/50 mix of 110 and 91 adding up to about a 1/4 tank because I just dumped the last 2 1/2 gallons of 110 in before I changed the rocker arms. ZERO detonation right now, I'll have to wait and fill up with 91 to see how it runs on straight pump premium. It may be a moot point though. As is, it does feel a little faster than before, but with all this chatter about how much faster the car could be with a bigger cam.....I may be tearing back into the engine sooner than I thought.
-
