Wix is falling off my list of good filter brands

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I know for a fact that Fram, Pennzoil, Napa and a few other house brand oil filters are made in the USA. They're made in Blanchester Ohio at the American Showa Plant.
I've seen it with my own eyes.
I'm not saying every one of those brands filters are made there, but I know some are.
I also know that there was different materials going into the filters I saw. I saw the filter material being pleated and the filters being assembled. I learned you truly get what you pay for.
 
I can tell you with certainty that not all NAPA and Fram filters and parts are made in U.S.A. In fact a great number of their parts are made overseas especially China. I see it every day with the parts that come in. Moog is another. The Brands of years past that were known for American Quality have all been bought up by major conglomerates & have been outsourcing for years to try and be competitive on prices.
It's hard to find made in USA anymore. I'll quit here before I start to rant!
 
The only QC that exists in China is when the U.S. Companies send their own QC personel directly to the factory to oversee the entire process. In other words, they need babysat.

Exactly right. Not too long ago I was a product development manager. Unfortunately my boss didn't like to let his employees do their actual jobs; he'd started the company back when god was still in elementary school, and he wanted to keep making all the decisions, just leaving the actual work (and blame) to the employees. So the order came down that a certain product had to be sourced in "a low-cost country", by which he meant China or India. In order to justify my paycheck I had to at least try to prevent the inevitable trainwreck, so I devised a specification that was physically impossible to build and shopped it around. The vast majority of job shops responded "Yes, yes, no problem, you sign here now, we make for you, hundred percent quality!". Har-de-har-har, yeah, right. A tiny few shops said "We have to talk to you about your specification", and those were the only ones worth talking to. The trainwreck happened anyhow (at enormous expense because duh, price and cost aren't the same thing), because that's just how things work in that part of the world. All the ISO certifications in the world aren't worth usiing as toilet paper, let alone for any kind of quality assurance; if you don't have your own boots on the ground, calling the shots and exposing the bribes and making sure each and every spec is followed in each and every detail, you will get garbage. Yeah, the spec calls for glass-filled Nylon-66, but the factory owner's brother-in-law gave him a super bargain on a material that's the same color and looks about the same. Yeah, the spec calls for a 4-minute part cooldown between two steps, but that part of the spec is obviously optional. Yeah, the parts (or at least a representative sample) are supposed to be tested, but that's just a formality, part of that funny Western obsession with "quality", so just fill out the test sheet and change the numbers a tiny bit up or down so it doesn't look the same on each sheet.

Then there's the counterfeiting industry itself in China, which is of truly mind-blowing scale. Any product you can possibly think of, every brand in the world. There are whole, entire towns where the entire industry is counterfeiting. And we're not talking about obvious Magnetbox/Sorny/Panaphonic types of knockoffs -- we're talking about each and every last little tiny detail copied. Typefaces, surface finishes, packaging, product literature, approval stamps, tax stamps, everything.

But wait, there's more; stuff that's already made in China (with always less-than-strict Western babysitting) doesn't even have to be counterfeited; the factory already has all the plans and machines and blueprints; so when they've finished making the official order they just keep making more. The genuine customer gets his parts...except the ones that are sold through non-official channels. They don't discard the rejects that can't be squinted into "meeting" the spec, either; those get sold through non-official channels, too. Ever notice how you walk through Chinatown and find name-brand kitchen appliances and stuff, new in box, at about 1/3 to 1/2 the price the same model costs elsewhere...? That's why.

Back to filters: Yeah, Wix has a big, impressive, modern glass office building in a Chinese place called "Times Square". Perhaps they make filters there, and perhaps they don't. Walk through the AAPEX auto parts trade show in Las Vegas (or Automechanika abroad) and collect catalogues from every Chinese filter company (or headlamp, or belt, or hose, or gasket, or...). By the end of the day you'll have forty pounds of paper in your tote bags and twenty USB keys or mini-CDs. Spread 'em all out on your hotel bed and take a look: a different company name on the front of each catalogue, and a photo of a different building on the back, but other than that the catalogues are all identical. Same photos and same part numbers on the same-numbered pages. Go back the next day, pick any part number and ask if they make that part themselves or buy it from another company. Each and every time, the answer from 60 different booths will be "Our part! We make! The others buy from us!". Again: Har de har har, yeah right.

But even if I give Wix the benefit of the (slim) doubt and assume they're bringing in quality materials and engaging in rigourous quality control at every step of the process...that still means they're "only" taking advantage of the cheap slave labor readily available in China, and I don't care to support that, either.

Leaving aside the Western world, I have very few problems and very little hesitation about using parts from Mexico, Argentina, South Korea, Brazil, or Taiwan. Not every part from those places is good, but not every American-, Canadian-, or German-made part is good, either. Junk can be made in any country. But I think it's especially interesting how Taiwanese quality is a whole lot more reliably good than Chinese quality. I'm sure it's more complicated than I make it when I say "Amazing the difference a little freedom makes", but I think that's at least a large chunk of it.

Meanwhile: Fleetguard's filters are good stuff. They tend to be priced higher, but there are bargains around if you hunt. I use their severe-duty, synthetic-media LF3487 oil filter on everything that I used to use a Wix 51515 on (that is the standard large oil filter). To take apart an LF3487 is to look upon an item designed and built to do a good job for a long time. And they're made in America, so…that's what I'm buying.
 
not all Fram filters and parts are made in U.S.A.

True, but Fram's filters have been junk for years and years now—even when they were made in America.

Moog is another.

All the Federal-Mogul brands have been on a fast slide downward in quality since the engineers were fired and replaced by MBAs.

have been outsourcing for years to try and be competitive on prices.

No, it's to try and be cheap on prices, because that's what we demand by continuing to do shortsighted things like shop at Wal-Mart and equivalent.
 
So we just had a big thread about how WIX was the king, and FRAM was the trash of all trash, now are we having a swing??? lol..... sorry, couldn't resist. Not saying what I use, just commenting on the threads... kind of funny to me
 
Exactly right. Not too long ago I was a product development manager. Unfortunately my boss didn't like to let his employees do their actual jobs; he'd started the company back when god was still in elementary school, and he wanted to keep making all the decisions, just leaving the actual work (and blame) to the employees. So the order came down that a certain product had to be sourced in "a low-cost country", by which he meant China or India. In order to justify my paycheck I had to at least try to prevent the inevitable trainwreck, so I devised a specification that was physically impossible to build and shopped it around. The vast majority of job shops responded "Yes, yes, no problem, you sign here now, we make for you, hundred percent quality!". Har-de-har-har, yeah, right. A tiny few shops said "We have to talk to you about your specification", and those were the only ones worth talking to. The trainwreck happened anyhow (at enormous expense because duh, price and cost aren't the same thing), because that's just how things work in that part of the world. All the ISO certifications in the world aren't worth usiing as toilet paper, let alone for any kind of quality assurance; if you don't have your own boots on the ground, calling the shots and exposing the bribes and making sure each and every spec is followed in each and every detail, you will get garbage. Yeah, the spec calls for glass-filled Nylon-66, but the factory owner's brother-in-law gave him a super bargain on a material that's the same color and looks about the same. Yeah, the spec calls for a 4-minute part cooldown between two steps, but that part of the spec is obviously optional. Yeah, the parts (or at least a representative sample) are supposed to be tested, but that's just a formality, part of that funny Western obsession with "quality", so just fill out the test sheet and change the numbers a tiny bit up or down so it doesn't look the same on each sheet.

Then there's the counterfeiting industry itself in China, which is of truly mind-blowing scale. Any product you can possibly think of, every brand in the world. There are whole, entire towns where the entire industry is counterfeiting. And we're not talking about obvious Magnetbox/Sorny/Panaphonic types of knockoffs -- we're talking about each and every last little tiny detail copied. Typefaces, surface finishes, packaging, product literature, approval stamps, tax stamps, everything.

But wait, there's more; stuff that's already made in China (with always less-than-strict Western babysitting) doesn't even have to be counterfeited; the factory already has all the plans and machines and blueprints; so when they've finished making the official order they just keep making more. The genuine customer gets his parts...except the ones that are sold through non-official channels. They don't discard the rejects that can't be squinted into "meeting" the spec, either; those get sold through non-official channels, too. Ever notice how you walk through Chinatown and find name-brand kitchen appliances and stuff, new in box, at about 1/3 to 1/2 the price the same model costs elsewhere...? That's why.

Back to filters: Yeah, Wix has a big, impressive, modern glass office building in a Chinese place called "Times Square". Perhaps they make filters there, and perhaps they don't. Walk through the AAPEX auto parts trade show in Las Vegas (or Automechanika abroad) and collect catalogues from every Chinese filter company (or headlamp, or belt, or hose, or gasket, or...). By the end of the day you'll have forty pounds of paper in your tote bags and twenty USB keys or mini-CDs. Spread 'em all out on your hotel bed and take a look: a different company name on the front of each catalogue, and a photo of a different building on the back, but other than that the catalogues are all identical. Same photos and same part numbers on the same-numbered pages. Go back the next day, pick any part number and ask if they make that part themselves or buy it from another company. Each and every time, the answer from 60 different booths will be "Our part! We make! The others buy from us!". Again: Har de har har, yeah right.

But even if I give Wix the benefit of the (slim) doubt and assume they're bringing in quality materials and engaging in rigourous quality control at every step of the process...that still means they're "only" taking advantage of the cheap slave labor readily available in China, and I don't care to support that, either.

Leaving aside the Western world, I have very few problems and very little hesitation about using parts from Mexico, Argentina, South Korea, Brazil, or Taiwan. Not every part from those places is good, but not every American-, Canadian-, or German-made part is good, either. Junk can be made in any country. But I think it's especially interesting how Taiwanese quality is a whole lot more reliably good than Chinese quality. I'm sure it's more complicated than I make it when I say "Amazing the difference a little freedom makes", but I think that's at least a large chunk of it.

Meanwhile: Fleetguard's filters are good stuff. They tend to be priced higher, but there are bargains around if you hunt. I use their severe-duty, synthetic-media LF3487 oil filter on everything that I used to use a Wix 51515 on (that is the standard large oil filter). To take apart an LF3487 is to look upon an item designed and built to do a good job for a long time. And they're made in America, so…that's what I'm buying.

This is an excellent explanation of why, the aftermarket parts replacement market, has gone so far downhill. I did retail auto parts for a living.If I don't know or believe in the product consistency, I won't recommend or sell it. Thank You, /6 Dan....
 
Well crap, Wix would have been my second choice for my race car, wont mention the brand name of the 1st choice but its the only one that will stay on when it idles at 80psi and hits 115psi @ WFO.
 
Found out last week the cafeteria at my job is buying imported Tilapia from China. I will never eat it again! I have been looking for the manager for a few days now to give him a piece of my mind.
We raise Tilapia here in North America, it is commonly used in home aqua culture. No need to buy it from a country that was caught feeding feces to shrimp that were raised for human consumption.
 
I have to go looking , for Fram filters as i can only buy them some of the time here .Walmart changed to purolater, and Canadian Tire only keeps a few numbers .I sold fram for almost 20 years at an auto parts store, and never had problem .But all parts stores here do not carry them, as they went to US markets.Personal preferance i guess.
 
I could write a book on how automotive parts have changed since the early 70's when I got into the parts industry. As a small chain store owner, I know firsthand what has been the causes of parts woes. To simplify things, so I don't have to write pages here. Very simple. GREED... WE... the end user of products have demanded better and better prices on parts. We are now seeing the results. Chinese parts and lower cost stuff from other countries started to filter in here to the USA in the mid 80's. In the 90's my warehouse distributors started selling DIRECT to installers and fleets, because the manufacturers of the products demanded that the warehouses sell more product. This drove Independent parts stores to cut prices in order to compete. But it didn't last long. Small chains just could not make enough money to justify keeping the doors opened.
I sold all three stores to Carquest in 2000.
GREED is what did it GREED !!! Rant over

BTW .. Purolater Pure One Filters are still made here and are very good.
 
I could write a book on how automotive parts have changed since the early 70's when I got into the parts industry. As a small chain store owner, I know firsthand what has been the causes of parts woes. To simplify things, so I don't have to write pages here. Very simple. GREED... WE... the end user of products have demanded better and better prices on parts. We are now seeing the results. Chinese parts and lower cost stuff from other countries started to filter in here to the USA in the mid 80's. In the 90's my warehouse distributors started selling DIRECT to installers and fleets, because the manufacturers of the products demanded that the warehouses sell more product. This drove Independent parts stores to cut prices in order to compete. But it didn't last long. Small chains just could not make enough money to justify keeping the doors opened.
I sold all three stores to Carquest in 2000.
GREED is what did it GREED !!! Rant over

BTW .. Purolater Pure One Filters are still made here and are very good.

Even if we told a company that we would pay a few bucks more for a good quality part where do we think that extra few bucks would go?
Betcha it wouldn't go into a better quality part. :)
It would go into some CEO's pocket and we would still get a crappy part.

(Again with the greed)
 
Even if we told a company that we would pay a few bucks more for a good quality part where do we think that extra few bucks would go?
Betcha it wouldn't go into a better quality part. :)
It would go into some CEO's pocket and we would still get a crappy part.

(Again with the greed)

I totally agree. GREED! always follow the money trail, it will give the answer!

the "little" guy HAS to be fragile with his $$$. the ultra wealthy exec. that will do anything to put another million in his portfolio, is all to common.

lets face it, our country is and has been, completely "out of control" for far longer than maybe we has realized. rant over also.
 
Very simple. GREED.

Exactly right.

WE... the end user of products have demanded better and better prices on parts. We are now seeing the results.

Yup. Price and cost are not the same, but most of us don't bother thinking about it, we just stampede to Wal "Always the Low Price" Mart because OOOOH, lookie, I can buy [oil filter, engine oil, light bulb, potting soil, saucepan, shirt, whatever] for just 98¢! We voted with our pocketbooks, and those of us who thought about the consequences of our vote and considered the difference between price and cost got outvoted.

I sold all three stores to Carquest in 2000.

Sad. The independent auto parts store was a wonderful thing; they're pretty much extinct now.
 
I totally agree. GREED! always follow the money trail, it will give the answer!
the "little" guy HAS to be fragile with his $$$. the ultra wealthy exec. that will do anything to put another million in his portfolio, is all to common.
lets face it, our country is and has been, completely "out of control" for far longer than maybe we has realized.

Yes, but be careful; too much more of that talk and we'll have to look at the giant-and-growing canyon (where the middle class used to be) between the wealthy and the poor, and then things will start getting really uncomfortable when we have to discuss how virtually all of the middle class got shoved downward, not lifted upward by that canyon, and then it's pretty much impossible to avoid just coming right out and discussing income inequality and what happened the last time (and every other time) the wealthy got too wealthy at the expense of the poor. But then the poor, carefully trained by the wealthy, will babble and scream so loudly about bootstraps and liberals and socialism and godless communism and whatnot that nothing will change except the wealthy get wealthier and the poor get poorer and more numerous.

It's the American way.
 
I don't think it's all greed, and what greed there is is 50/50 fault of the consumer and the manufacturer. Much of it is the US at least has made it almost impossible to produce things here even if you wanted. At some point you get tired of jumping through government regulations, leagal minefields, and political activism just to face a lazy, entitled labor pool, just to get beat over the head that you aren't paying enought in taxes. Just to sell something at twice the price and ultimately go bankrupt anyway.
Someday this all will pan out, Chinese people will gain more and more standards of living and it won't be much less to build there. At least the capitalism we exported there has kept them from going to physical war with us, maybe someday we can export liberalism there to kill their economy as well!
 
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