Won't Fire - Need Help!

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67Dart273 said:
First, "suspect the gauge." If this is an electric gauge, get a mechanical. No need for a dash mount gauge, you can buy a generic test gauge, or even use your compression tester with the proper adapters / fittings.

The big tricks that I'm aware of on SB pump pressure, other than "standard" issues like badly installed, damaged, wrong size bearings or journals, 'effed up pump bypass or filter problems

Issues with pan to pump interferance. Check carefully. I believe we had one member break a pump

Issues with ARP (and other ?) studs with pump fit. This may be the one I was thinking broke the pump

There's a drive in core plug in the vertical oil hole from the rear main going up to the galley area

There's a recessed plug FORWARD of an access plug in the rear of the engine. I believe you can see this by pulling the dist. The plug is down in the rear near the distributor gear facing to the rear. These are threaded plugs

I'm not too sure the front plugs are an issue. There's documented proof of guys having engines with no plugs, and at least one claimed the factory never put them in some engines
Click to expand...

Wow! You're quick!! - Yeah, figured it was a new Autometer electric gauge and have never had problems in the past, but sound easy/cheap enough to check... Bearing clearances and cam oiling bearing holes alignment verified during assembly. Used stock main connecting bolts and new Meling pump, Milodon deep pan and extended pick-up, so didn't encounter fit issues during assembly... May change out the oil filter since it's easy...

The "Drive-in" core plug from the rear main doesn't sound familiar... Is there a way to check that without pulling the pan and main? Will there be any indicators if I use a drill and priming rod? Hate to even pull the distributor with all the timing problems I've been having, but sounds like it might be prudent to check the threaded plug by the oil pump drive shaft...

Additionally/Separately, I can hear a vibrating/buzzing noise coming from somewhere. But, with the engine @ 2.5Km it's hard to tell where it's coming from. It may be the torque converter hitting/rubbing on the inspection shield. Will pull and leave off the shield when I replace the starter.

Okay... Appreciate the check list. I like you're methodical approach!!



Louie70Dart said:
"Initially, didn't have the 90 degree oil adapter tightened enough and blew out the gasket during priming and dumped about 2 quarts of oil on the garage floor..." The good thing is you caught it. When I had my 318 back together in 1980, I didn't notice the plug on the back of the block was missing. Had to pull engine and split tranny from it to put a plug in. Hey, I was a real rookie here. At least it didn't start.
Click to expand...

Ouch! Yeah, having to pull the trans again is painful... I was going through the priming process and my drill picked up a little speed accompanied by a "Squirting" noise. But, I kept going watching the rockers for oil flow... My father-in-law happened to be visiting and told me I had a "Leak!" Boy, that was an understatement... Good luck with your 340 build...

dartguy340 said:
Up to 1969 the timing marks were on the passenger side of the motor,
in 1970 they moved them to the driver side. That may be your problem
with the wrong balancer that you used.

I just read that you verified TDC was correct...disregard this post.
Click to expand...

No worries... Definitely went down that same thought process..
 
I forgot to mention "not starting" with the key but firing with a remote indicates that the original coil bypass is not hooked up, depending on what? you have for ignition

The Mopar ign. swit. has two IGN wires, "IGN1" which is run and traditionally dark blue (some years are not) and then "IGN2" which is the coil resistor bypass circuit, tradtionally brown.

The "run" circuit goes DEAD when you twist the key to "start" so you have NO ign voltage. IGN must get voltage from the brown bypass.

On a normal car with coil resistor, that wire connects to the coil + side of the ballast resistor

ON MSD or other ignitions with no ballast, you must hook that wire up with the "run" wire

So far as "the plug" someone posted there's a way to use a rod and measure down from the oil sender like a dipstick. I don't remember the dimension. If the plug is not there, the rod will go further down.

It goes in with the rear main cap removed "up" into the block

Below is a photo I found of the screw in plug. You are looking down the distributor hole, and the wrench is coming in from the rear of the block in which another plug normally sits.
 

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  • plug.jpg
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This thread, go to post 125 -- talks about that "other" little galley plug

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=103623&page=5

396579221.jpg
 
Referring to post #52, I have installed that plug thru the distributor opening hole.
You just need to be careful in doing it, so you don't drop it!
 
Thanks Guys! Very helpful!! Now just need to find time to get out to the garage and check these out... "Back to School" night at the kids school...
 
Got a few minutes to squeeze in some garage time after "Back to School Night." Pulled the distributor, stuck the telescoping mirror into position, and "Voila!" No plug!!

I guess it's like putting together that kid's toy with a bag of parts... You get to the end of putting it together and there's a few parts left over....

In an effort to save money, figured I would install the freeze plugs on my own instead of paying my machine shop to do it like in past builds... So, ordered a bronze freeze plug kit from Mancini. There were (6) pieces left over, two small press-in plugs (For behind cam plate), two bronze 1.25" freeze plugs (looked all over, but couldn't find where those go), and two threaded plugs... Now I know where one goes, but where does the other one go? Is this another oil gallery plug I neglected to install??

"Secretly," that's why we're in this hobby... To learn new things, conquer new challenges, without screwing too many things up!!

Let's hope I can get this first plug installed through the distributor hole and not drop it down into the bottom of the engine...
 
After reading several other posts, found where the second threaded plug was supposed to go... I missed installing in the threaded plug where the oil filter screws on. This one was fairly easy to install. Just had to pull the 90 degree oil adapter...

The plug down inside the distributor hole is another story... Made a couple make shift right angle wrenches with a 5/16" hex head. Tough to get a good angle on it... Also, trying real hard not to drop "Anything" down into the block!

After I installed the plug in the oil filter section, ran my drill and priming shaft and watched a "Huge" stream of oil come flowing out by the distributor shaft area. With that much oil flowing, hard to believe I had 25 lbs. of pressure...


dartguy340 said:
Referring to post #52, I have installed that plug thru the distributor opening hole.
You just need to be careful in doing it, so you don't drop it!
Click to expand...

Hey Steve, any helpful tricks on how you installed the plug through the distributor hole? Really don't want to pull the intake if I can avoid it...
 
Here's the latest:
  • Fixed the electrical and now can start fire the car using the ignition
  • Had a tough time getting the plug down in the distributor installed
View attachment Work Surface.jpg
Had to create a work surface to lie down so I could use both hands, one to hold the light and the other to align and turn the make shift tool
View attachment Distrib View.jpg
Used a ratchet wrench, hex head rod, and a bunch of Teflon tape to prevent the plug from falling off. Took several attempts given the small distributor hole and 90 degree angle with no leverage

View attachment Adjusted Socket.jpg
After getting the plug started and partially threaded, cut a hex socket to use on a ratchet to tighten with more torque

Once plug was installed near distributor drive gear, primed with drill (Much more resistance), and re-fired the motor....

Oil pressure is much better, but still only about 50 psi @ 2500 rpm. Must still be something I missed... Seems like the oil pressure should be much higher, like 80 psi? The only other things I can think of is the plug under the main (#5) bearing or two plugs behind the cam thrust plate, but those don't seem to be as critical...

Any other ideas would be welcome... Not looking forward to tearing apart the front end or dropping the pan, but running out of options....
 
Tell us about your oil pump (new, what brand, hi vol, hi press, new, old?

And bearing clearances?

50 PSI at 2500 is fine.
 
67Dart273 said:
Tell us about your oil pump (new, what brand, hi vol, hi press, new, old?

And bearing clearances?

50 PSI at 2500 is fine.
Click to expand...
Oil pump is a New Melling high volume unit... Don't recall hi pressure. Crank and rod bearings were checked to spec.. I forget the specific measurements, it's been about 6 months and didn't write them down.

I guess was thinking oil pressure should be around 70-80 at that rpm?
 
Conclusion / Summary
  • Seated the power connection in the bulkhead connection to ignition and can now crank/fire the motor from the ignition switch
  • Finished the cam break-in @ about 30 minutes @ 2500+ rpm
  • Verified new Melling Oil Pump was HV and not HP (pressure)
  • After installing the two screw-in plugs
    • Used SAE 30 Brad Penn Break-in Oil
    • Initial start-up oil pressure @ 2500 rpm was 70 lbs. Initial oil pressure seem better now that motor is stable and settled in...
    • After reaching operation temp @ 180 degrees
      • Oil pressure stayed consistent @ 50 lbs. @ 2500 rpm
      • Oil pressure @ 1000 rpm consistent @ 15 lbs.
Fairly satisfied at this point with start up and operating oil pressure. If I ever need to pull the timing chain cover off, will more likely install the two press-fit plugs behind the cam thrust plate. If I ever pull pan, will pull #5 main bearing and re-inspect for press-in plug. But, don't see a need at this point to make this a priority.

Will move onto next steps of solving small water leaks and start tuning..

Thanks all for your help, especially 67Dart273. Have really learned a lot from you guys!!

Curt
 
I learned something too. Had no idea you could install that plug from the dist. hole. LOL
 
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