Won't go into first when warm/Reverse Grind when warm

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684door

684door

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Guys, please help. I installed a new centerforce clutch kit and new Ram flywheel a few thousand mile ago. Lately, the car is having issues when warmed up. After a few miles, when I shut the car off getting it into first is impossible. I have to put the car in first and start it. Also when warmed up the car will grind going into reverse. What the heck could be wrong. It is a 383 with a stock chrysler bell from another car. I looked at the fork and didnt notice anything bent or cracked. All parts are a few thousand miles old. Check the tranny that Passon rebuilt, perfect. I am about to give up. I fought a mystery problem with chatter a few years ago. That came down to pinion angle. Fixed that but that problem was another one where 5 or 6 items could be a culprit. It took me about a year to solve it. I cant go through that again with this problem. Please help or so help me, I am going to take the easy route and sell it to buy a model A Ford where you can fix everything with one wrench and a screwdriver. Ha ha ha
 
Sounds like the input shaft is spinning with the engine. It is either the clutch is not completely disengaging or pilot bearing is dragging on input shaft. Make sure the bell housing has the alignment dowels installed as of there is misalignment the input shaft will bind in the pilot bearing.
 
Sounds like your clutch is dragging. Could be an adjustment problem. Also could be a warped disc.
 
I adjusted the clutch and same issue. What could cause a warped disc?
 
I adjusted the clutch and same issue. What could cause a warped disc?
 
How much freeplay do you have? Clutch departure should be in the range of .080 to .060. Grinding into reverse is a sure sign that the input gear is still spinning. It's the clincher. One inch freeplay usually gets you there.
Does it go into the other gears ok?
Does it make a difference if the vehicle is rolling ?
If no and no, then it has to be a spinning clutch disc. And there are only a few reasons for that,all of which have already been mentioned, except the oil. Those A833 gears are big and heavy, and if you drained all the oil, they would keep on spinning for a bit after you clutch it, especially if the disc was dragging. Mopar used to spec gear oil in that box, cuz it helps slow those brutes down.Don't think of the oil as a crutch, the proper solution is to have enough departure, that the oil can brake the gears.
If it grinds into reverse, at least you know the cluster is spinning, so no gear is seizing on the mainshaft.
When all else fails;
Drain some oil, looking for swirling metal particles.......
 
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684door said:
I adjusted the clutch and same issue. What could cause a warped disc?
Click to expand...
Heat is the main culprit. The disc has an amount crush built into it with the steel in between the friction material. If it distorts it can cause the clutch to drag. I doubt it would be the pilot though it is possible. Do you have a bushing or bearing?
 
Had the same problem with my 70 340 Dart. Turned out the clutch fork pivot was cracked and leaning back. Easy enough to check.
 
684door said:
I adjusted the clutch and same issue. What could cause a warped disc?
Click to expand...
On the Street, the CFII is extremely robust. I have over 100,000miles on my PP, and I put about 30,000 hard hard miles on the disc, and it never complained. This behind my 400hp 367. I actually pulled it out cuz it was too instant, and I kept on breaking stuff behind it. I wanted, and needed something a lil softer. If your 383 is under 400hp, and your're on street tires, then I really doubt the disc is warped.

When you start it up warm in gear and the pedal fully depressed, does the car slightly lurch forward? Do you have to step on the brake to keep it from creeping ahead? If either is a yes, then that is the proof that the clutch is dragging. If you can't solve it with clutch departure at .080, then the trans should come down; unless you have a problem with the departure NOT staying at .080, like if something between the pedal and the TOB is moving, like Shenango says. Or say the Z-bar is sliding over, or IDK, like maybe the fork is not properly engaged on the TOB, or, wild-card; you have the wrong pedal-ratio, and you're not getting adequate departure. That is why I keep on harping on departure rather than freeplay.
If you do take it down, be sure to make the crank centerline and the trans centerline on the same axis, as already mentioned, by shifting the bellhouse. You will need a Dial-Indicator for this with a magnetic base.
Also, before the trans comes down, check your crank end-play; maybe the thrust bearing is cooked. I don't think it is but,but you never know.Testing just rules it out.
 
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The car does not lurch forward in gear and clutch pedal depressed. The car was great for the first 1000 miles and nlw thos problem rears its ugly head. It goes into the other gears fine and is not a problem when rolling. So weird because as you are driving and shifting, you would never know anything was wrong. If the bellhousing was mis aligned would it have shown up rigjt away and not 1000 or so miles later? I have tbe tranny out and forl. The fork looks om but do they have a tendancy to bens and crack? I also bought new gear fluid. I used Jaime Passons fluid, but thought I should switch to a different type to rule that out. The centerfoecea pressure plate shows some signs of heat in a few spots, but not crazy. Disc visually looks OK. Just frustrating. I tried to do the magnetic base dial measurement foe runout, butwas not sure hpw to exactly get the two arms to work and get the dial in the right spot. I got frustrated and left the garage. Thia big block dour speed swap has been such a learning process. About to gove up after having this car for 26 yrs.
 
I don't mean to be rude but you know you can go back and edit your posts for spelling and such,right?
So It looks like the transmission is out and you're trying to indicate the retainer hole, right?
You may have to remove one of the crank-bolts to make room for the magnetic base, or to bolt a plate on. It is very tricky to do with just the two straight arms, and still be able to see the dial, but it can be done. And the flywheel will be a bunch easier to turn,if you remove the sparkplugs.
So if the trans is out;
inspect the input gear for bluing in the pilot bearing area, or metal transfer from the crank.
and make sure the disc slides freely back and forth over the splined area.
If you have the sidecover off the trans;
check the space between the low-gear brass ring and the base of the clutching teeth.Just gently push the slider towards the back of the case, but not over the struts. If it slips over, stop!, back up and start over. If it slips over and you continue to slide it towards the back, it is possible to shift the slider too far and then the struts will pop out the backside. It's tricky to put them back in but it can be done. I just want to save you that frustration,lol. Ok so back to the brass to base measurement. I have no spec for that, so you will have to compare it to the input gear which usually has the least amount of wear. If I had to guess, then I'd like to see more than .060, probably closer to .080.
If you can see witness marks on the gear where the brass has been touching it,and it looks like this brass did it, then that brass is junk. But usually it will disengage from the struts and spin before it gets that bad. Which also makes it junk,lol. But I'm pretty sure this is NOT your problem.
So let's go look at that disc. First inspect the hub for cracks, especially around the spring pockets. Then check the pucks for lost or loose rivets. Then look for the organic lining separating or buckling off the metal plate. Check the thickness in several places to be sure it's not coming apart.Next slide it onto the input shaft. Put the trans in second or third, and rotate the output shaft, while checking the disc for wobble as it rotates. If you can clearly see it, you will have to get more scientific. If you have a spare input, grab it and put everything in a lathe and check it again. With no input, you'll have to figure something else out.The rear yoke will have to be in the tail to steady the M/S else it will introduce another error.
Obviously with a plate-departure of .080, the total indicator runout should be less than that. I run a lot less departure, so I can shift faster, as less time is spent taking up the slack,lol. But I also have adjust it more often.
If you find the disc OK, then you will have to check that the PP finger heights are all the same.
Don't forget to check your crank end-play and your fork pivot, and that the Z-bar is not sliding around.
 
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I have found that pulling the trans into 2nd gear first, then go for 1st or rev. eases engagement. Don't know why, but keep passing it on, this seems to work for most, was told by my mentor, had to do with spinning all the gears for alignment.. (shrug) try it.. good luck.
 
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