You have to be INSANE to have long-tube headers on a big-block A-body Mopar!

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gregcon said:
I've never liked loud exhaust. I look at it as a necessary evil, in some cases.

I'm more impressed with a quiet exhaust that works well. I had a Lexus LS460L....stone-*** quiet and it would rev freely to way past 6000RPM. That tell you someone had their act together in the exhaust department.

I used to drive my cuda with 3" exhaust to the races, race it, then drive back, 100 mile round trip.....I'd get home and my head would be ringing even the next day. At the time I kinda thought it made me a Warrior/Badass/Bad Dude but now I look back and have to admit it didn't do anything but make my head ring.

As for bad *** dudes....let me give you an idea of what I consider a bad *** dude, as pictured below. Note that he lacks any tats, piercings, beards, alcoholic beverages, and might even be wearing a dress. But trust me, boys, he's a bad as **** of the highest order.
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I never have either and with today's modern mufflers that can flow better than an open pipe, there's no need for loud.
 
I believe in "speak softly and carry a big stick" :) I would like to quiet my Dart some more - dual 3" with X-pipe, two Summit "turbo" mufflers and two glasspacks at the rear bumper. Still noisy.
 
gregcon said:
I used to drive my cuda with 3" exhaust to the races, race it, then drive back, 100 mile round trip.....I'd get home and my head would be ringing even the next day. At the time I kinda thought it made me a Warrior/Badass/Bad Dude but now I look back and have to admit it didn't do anything but make my head ring.
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My Dart was the same story. Would drive to track and back. I got fed up and welded up new pipes from headers to tailpipes adding huge 3" Chevy Suburban mufflers. Now I can hear myself think. I have flanges at the tailpipe so if I want I can put the old X-pipe with the Racing mufflers on in about 30 minutes.
 
jimharvard said:
I posted a couple of weeks ago that I have started working on a forgotten car in my collection - an original 69 383 4 speed fastback Formula S Cuda. This car has been sitting in my garage piled full of parts since 2008. After I got it set up in the garage extension i built just for that car, I removed all the parts piled inside, cleaned 12 years of dust off the windows and started doing some basic "restoration" stuff.

I drained the oil replacing it with "conventional" Castrol GTX 10w-30, a new Frame filter, new fuel filter and new antifreeze. I siphoned the old gas out of the tank and put in 5 gallons of Marathon Premium. I filled the Master Cylinder with brake fluid but found it will not pump up the brakes so i ordered a new one from Summit.

About 5 years ago, I had put a new battery in this car just to see if it would start and all the starter did was "click." So I knew I would have to replace the starter, but I really didn't think about that project - until now! So I added a Mopar brand mini-starter to my Summit order and it should be here any day now.

So I spent a lot of time just staring at the car's 383 with nice chrome valve covers and chrome headers. I think they are TTI's but I don't know for sure. I knew the mopar GIANT OEM starter was buried behind the driver's side header but I knew the starter wasn't going to fix itself so I started on this "repair."

So how many of you guys have replaced a OEM starter on an A-body Mopar with a factory 383 and long-tube headers? I've installed a number of starters on old cars in my 66 years, however, I've never done THIS particular car and starter. If I told you I'm ready to put a cube of C4 plastic explosive under this car, get a safe distance away, and then press the detonator button - would that surprise you? If you've done this repair, my idea shouldn't surprise you.

So far, I've removed the left front wheel; disconnected the exhaust from the header collector; removed all the header head bolts; removed two spark plugs; removed the driver's side front wheel tie-rod link; and the Pitman Arm hex nut. Tomorrow I'm on a search for a Pitman Arm puller tool. As all you guys who are now laughing your asses off at my "adventure", you already know that a set of long-tube headers just BARELY fit on a 383 in a 69 Barracuda. I have cranked the steering drag link clear over to the right and the Pitman Arm is still blocking the header so i'm going to remove that arm tomorrow and push the drag link out of the way. I'm HOPING that this will give me enough clearance to either push this header up past the starter or pull it down out of the car. I do have the car up in the air on multiple jackstands about two feet so I think I can get the header down out of the car if I can get it to clear "everything."

Soooo... do any of you guys have any "tips" or suggestions on a better way of changing a starter on this car? Am I making any big mistakes when there is a better way to do this repair? I really don't want to disconnect the motor mounts and try jacking the engine up or over to the passenger side for more fender well clearance. That is going to be my LAST option if at all possible!

PLEASE share any experience you may have with this repair and any tips you learned. Here is a picture of what I started with. The garage all around the car now looks like a bomb went off with all kinds of tools and antifreeze on the floor.

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Yeah the K frame probably has to come out on that car to change the starter. That is what I do with my Duster. Once you have the correct tools it doesn't take that long to drop the K frame. You should do some planning rather than just tear into it. If you do it correctly you only have to take a few things apart. I built a fixture for my transmission jack so I can drop the K frame along with most of the suspension at the same time. Good luck with your adventure.
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I use this fixture to hold the engine in place while the K frame comes out.
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jimharvard said:
i worked on the $#%! Cuda today - all day after i dropped by NAPA and purchased a very heavy duty Pitman Arm puller ($37.00). i did get a LOT of "tearing apart" done today.

the NAPA puller worked great taking the pitman arm off in about 5 minutes after numerous 1 lb. hammer blows. after that i:
unbolted the steering box so it would move around.
"unloaded" the driver side torsion bar and beat it with a pair of vise-grips attached and the "big hammer" till it slid back about 24" out of the way.
unbolted the clutch Z-bar attachment from the bell housing and let the Z-bar drop loose.
removed the driver's side valve cover and two remaining plugs.
removed one of the starter bolts.

the steering shaft is still in the way ever with the steering box unbolted so tomorrow i'm going to put the steering wheel and slide the steering shaft up out of the steering box connector. once that is done. i believe the header will either drop down on the ground or go back up through the top of the engine.

over the years, i've collected probably $10k or more of tools and have about every wrench, socket and special tool you can think of the "old cars" often need. i now have a lot of them spread out on the floor under the car. naturally, all the bolts on a 69 Barracuda are good old "American" sizes but i did notice that the bolts for the OEM steering box are not "hex head" but are something like "star" head bolts. fortunately, i have both hex sockets and the "multi-facet" sockets (12 point sockets?). i had to use the muti-facet sockets on the special star bolts on the steering box. all the other fasteners were standard U.S. bolts and nuts.

Summit sent me an email saying my starter and master cylinder will be delivered tomorrow so maybe i'll be installing my new starter tomorrow. i did try to get the old starter working before i started this project but had planned on putting on a mini-starter at some point so this lousy job was going to have to happen at some point. i am also going to put a Borgeson mini power steering box on the car before i reassemble all the stuff i've taken apart. the smaller borgeson box along with the mini starter should make this job a lot easier if i ever have to go through this nightmare again. i bought this car off of Ebay with just a few pictures. spending all this time under the car i've discovered that the previous owner put a new driveshaft and all new universal joints on the car, changed some of the original brake lines, installed new disc pads and two new rotors on the original Kelsey Hays calibers. the 4 speed looks to be original to the car and the Hurst shifter is in very nice shape and is still very tight. the car does have some surface rust underneath but it isn't too bad. here are some new pics...

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so... some update on the nutty remove header, mini starter install and new borgeson steering box.

i received the terminal relocation for my mini-starter. it looks like a very good item to use. i bought a reproduction starter positive terminal battery cable from Year One as the one on the car was pretty green with corrosion. if you haven't bought one of these, prepare to shell out some money - like $182.00. also, i ordered a borgeson power steering box, pump, hoses and steering shaft connector. borgeson says it's a direct bolt on, i guess i'll see. here are some more progress pictures showing everything removed and ready for reassembly... i think the mini starter and borgeson box is going to make reinstalling the driver side header a lot easier.

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jimharvard said:
so... some update on the nutty remove header, mini starter install and new borgeson steering box.

i received the terminal relocation for my mini-starter. it looks like a very good item to use. i bought a reproduction starter positive terminal battery cable from Year One as the one on the car was pretty green with corrosion. if you haven't bought one of these, prepare to shell out some money - like $182.00. also, i ordered a borgeson power steering box, pump, hoses and steering shaft connector. borgeson says it's a direct bolt on, i guess i'll see. here are some more progress pictures showing everything removed and ready for reassembly... i think the mini starter and borgeson box is going to make reinstalling the driver side header a lot easier.

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You go boy! gittin it done!
 
jimharvard said:
so... some update on the nutty remove header, mini starter install and new borgeson steering box.

i received the terminal relocation for my mini-starter. it looks like a very good item to use. i bought a reproduction starter positive terminal battery cable from Year One as the one on the car was pretty green with corrosion. if you haven't bought one of these, prepare to shell out some money - like $182.00. also, i ordered a borgeson power steering box, pump, hoses and steering shaft connector. borgeson says it's a direct bolt on, i guess i'll see. here are some more progress pictures showing everything removed and ready for reassembly... i think the mini starter and borgeson box is going to make reinstalling the driver side header a lot easier.

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Any pics of both steering boxes , side x side ??
 
famous bob said:
Any pics of both steering boxes , side x side ??
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hi...
i've ordered the borgeson box and should have it this week. as soon as i get it i'll post some pics of the OEM manual steering box beside the borgeson power steering box. i also have a mopar OEM power steering box that i'll include in the pics.
 
i just got my borgeson steering box and have posted the comparison of that to the OEM box in a separate thread titled "Comparing Borgeson's power steering box to the mopar OEM box."
 
DrCharles said:
Have you considered dropping the K-frame instead of taking the front suspension apart a piece at a time? I put my (B-body) headers IN on my low-deck Dart before raising the K-frame up. Amazing how much room there is with the steering box, torsion bars and the whole rest of the front end removed.
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Would be interested to know what exact set of headers you got to fit in? I’m going to be doing the same thing this winter on my 69 notch 383 4spd
 
Hedman 78030. A well-documented economy option if you have all of these: low-deck B engine, standard-port heads, manual steering, shorten column jacket.
 
DrCharles said:
Hedman 78030. A well-documented economy option if you have all of these: low-deck B engine, standard-port heads, manual steering, shorten column jacket.
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I wonder if they would be a possibility in an Early A with some mods.
 
jimharvard said:
no, i purchased this car with the current headers installed. you probably already know that OEM 383 exhaust manifolds are very hard to find and are expensive when you do find a set. i have seen these but the difference between factory manifolds and headers is anywhere from 40 to 60 HP so i want to keep the headers.
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So you are saying my stock manifolds that I have on the vehicle that allow power steering and 4 speed are worth a good amount of money? I want headers and will be going to manual steering so i would love to sell the manifolds, power steering setup as a package. What do you think its worth?
 
Rassnasty82 said:
So you are saying my stock manifolds that I have on the vehicle that allow power steering and 4 speed are worth a good amount of money? I want headers and will be going to manual steering so i would love to sell the manifolds, power steering setup as a package. What do you think its worth?
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What do you want for your exhaust manifolds? Send me a pm I may be interested.
 
You can have TTI's with power steering. Its comes at a price. Its not for everyone. All in what you want...

JW
 
I went thru all that mess & decided if I’m going to keep the car & maintain it, I’m not going thru all that trouble just for a starter because no telling when/where one will go out. My 67 383 Formula S has a vintage set of NOS Hooker 1 7/8” Fenderwell headers with an old 70’s white textured aluma-coating. While most cringe, I have only found 1 negative(cut fender wells but I kept the sheet metal I removed), I have found plenty of positives:
1-Super open/easy starter access
2-Cooler engine bay temps with opened inner fenders
3-header removal without disassembling anything.
4-open/unobstructed spark plug access
5-transmission clear/open around shifter linkage
6-larger tubes/collector
7-looks cool, plenty of people see them say they never have seen this set-up

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GRANCUDA said:
While most cringe, I have only found 1 negative(cut fender wells but I kept the sheet metal I removed),
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I had a set of those in the 80's. Never again. Tires rubbed (even small 195/70R14), low ground clearance at the flanges, hot on the feet...
Edited to add: really close to the master cylinder. I tried it on a 440 and had to make a relocating plate. Body clearance even worse with the RB.
 
DrCharles said:
I had a set of those in the 80's. Never again. Tires rubbed (even small 195/70R14), low ground clearance at the flanges, hot on the feet...
Edited to add: really close to the master cylinder. I tried it on a 440 and had to make a relocating plate. Body clearance even worse with the RB.
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I have mine sitting a little higher than stock height so I don’t have the ground clearance to flange issue or tire rubbing. I used a DEI starter heat shield under the master to protect from heat. I’ve got about 4 years/20,000 miles on this set-up so far & it’s worked well for my application.

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