RustyRatRod's Guide To Hot Rod Bliss

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RustyRatRod said:
If I leave something out, such as rocker arms or oiling system, that means use stock stuff, because it is plenty adequate.
Click to expand...

With respects Sir,
I will add one more 'tidbit' for the 'budget build' , ---

Lowering oil temp 1 DEG = lower coolant temp by 10 DEG ! (rule of thumb).

Oil is (in simplistic terms, no lack or respect intended or implied Honored Posters), The singular most important heat transfer element in an Engine.

For validation Sirs, just study Top Fuel configs !

Not trying to be an *** here, just an observation on Mr R's post.

With Respects Mr Rob,
I will add one point of personal experience,

Once upon a time--- lol ---
I am Running 'tinfish' flat out to pick up an friends daughter in trouble,
up the Truckee Grade I smell smoke--- the acrid coolant burning smell
any gearhead has been associated with --- lol.

Damn , popped an upper rad hose, coolant is pretty much gone at this
point--- still need to take care of business, I gave My word !!!

Drove another 28 miles to an repair shop, hose, coolant bla bla bla,

After the episode, I put another 38K miles on the same powertrain with out breakdown.

Back on topic,
'up volume' oil system components are a must & readily available
on the 'cheap' Mod !!!
Your Engines life blood is not ethylene glycol :D

P.s,
Humble Thx for the topic Sir !!!
 
mech1nxh said:
With respects Sir,
I will add one more 'tidbit' for the 'budget build' , ---

Lowering oil temp 1 DEG = lower coolant temp by 10 DEG ! (rule of thumb).

Oil is (in simplistic terms, no lack or respect intended or implied Honored Posters), The singular most important heat transfer element in an Engine.

For validation Sirs, just study Top Fuel configs !

Not trying to be an *** here, just an observation on Mr R's post.

With Respects Mr Rob,
I will add one point of personal experience,

Once upon a time--- lol ---
I am Running 'tinfish' flat out to pick up an friends daughter in trouble,
up the Truckee Grade I smell smoke--- the acrid coolant burning smell
any gearhead has been associated with --- lol.

Damn , popped an upper rad hose, coolant is pretty much gone at this
point--- still need to take care of business, I gave My word !!!

Drove another 28 miles to an repair shop, hose, coolant bla bla bla,

After the episode, I put another 38K miles on the same powertrain with out breakdown.

Back on topic,
'up volume' oil system components are a must & readily available
on the 'cheap' Mod !!!
Your Engines life blood is not ethylene glycol :D

P.s,
Humble Thx for the topic Sir !!!
Click to expand...

Excellent point,Mr. Norm ... Oil is a coolant, as well as lubrication. I will touch, on something here... You get a crankshaft ground, a block machined, MAKE SURE FOR YOURSELVES, IT IS SPOTLESSLY CLEAN... before assembly. I have seen many actually overnight "RRR " builds succeed, & kick *** a long time. The longest time spent (I.M.H.O...) : get everything as clean,as you can.
 
Well with all the fun being taken out from buying partssssssssssssss we dont need,might as well buy a Pinto.:eek:ops:
 
Hi rusty,

I have also read somewhere if your bearing clearances are in limits in regards to your crank and rod bearings, then using a high volume oil pump actually kills HP, simply because the bearing clearances are a "metered leak" based on what the factory engineers determined it needed it to be.

By running a hi volume pump in an engine with a new or cut crank and new bearings equalling tight clearances, the high volume becomes high pressure at these controlled leak points, and actually makes the crank and rods "tight" in the bearings under load with higher oil pressure requiring more horsepower to turn the crank.

A hi volume pump does have its place for instance, in a clapped out V8 with low oil pressure because the clearances are out and you dont want to rebuild it. A hi volume pump can be used as a bandaid fix
 
Rusty,
I was looking at your choice of sealed power 526AP cast flattops, and wondered why you would choose these over the KB 167 cast flattops with valve reliefs. Does it have something to do with compression, and the valve reliefs in the 167s lowering compression a bit?

I have found sets of the 526AP 's on evilbay, with sets of cast rings for about $125 pistons with rings, or do you recommend a different ring than in the sealed power piston and ring kits.

Just curious. I havent cracked my 74 318 open yet for its rebuild, i am currently using it to mock up everything in the engine compartment. I was leaning towards the kb167s before this thread. I intend to do my 318 low buck and keep on the hunt for a 360 for a hotter buildup later.
 
Hey Matt, you been out to FM600 lately? I'm pretty sure they have one or two 360 magnums out there...
 
Hey bro hows it going in hawaii? When r you coming back to Dyess AFB?

Have not been able to hit up FM600. Been so busy with work, and watching the kids on the weekends while my wife works. Thats coming to a close end of this august, then i will have my weekends back, will be hitting up 600 for parts then. Theres an M body fury out there grandma fresh. I want to get the steelies off it. The oil filter adaptor, clutch fan and shroud.

We had a lot of rain 8" in one day. Lake ft phantom went up 7' in 2 days. It was insane. Anyway i am trying to stick with the LA engines. I must be hard headed old skool or something.

I did find a class A motorhome a guy was parting w a 360 / 727 long tail combo. $600 for the whole thing, he wouldent split it and sell the long block seperate. Found a mid 70s 340 in an 81 ram truck out at fm600. It was full of water. It sat too long. Had i known about it when it came into the yard, i would have nabbed it.
 
moparmat2000 said:
Rusty,
I was looking at your choice of sealed power 526AP cast flattops, and wondered why you would choose these over the KB 167 cast flattops with valve reliefs. Does it have something to do with compression, and the valve reliefs in the 167s lowering compression a bit?

I have found sets of the 526AP 's on evilbay, with sets of cast rings for about $125 pistons with rings, or do you recommend a different ring than in the sealed power piston and ring kits.

Just curious. I havent cracked my 74 318 open yet for its rebuild, i am currently using it to mock up everything in the engine compartment. I was leaning towards the kb167s before this thread. I intend to do my 318 low buck and keep on the hunt for a 360 for a hotter buildup later.
Click to expand...

Budget, duhh. KB's cost more. Plus you have to have file fit rings. They cost more. Plus you have to have the sheen shop file them. Cost more. It is easy to do I know, but I am assuming a newbie here who might not quite have skills yet to do such. Lastly, there is no chance for any type of funky failure in the event "someone" doesn't get the ring gaps right.

JMO that the KB pistons are not needed here.
 
Excellent points, sir. An inexpensive oil cooler certainly would not be a waste of money here. Every Ford Police interceptor you see has one.


mech1nxh said:
With respects Sir,
I will add one more 'tidbit' for the 'budget build' , ---

Lowering oil temp 1 DEG = lower coolant temp by 10 DEG ! (rule of thumb).

Oil is (in simplistic terms, no lack or respect intended or implied Honored Posters), The singular most important heat transfer element in an Engine.

For validation Sirs, just study Top Fuel configs !

Not trying to be an *** here, just an observation on Mr R's post.

With Respects Mr Rob,
I will add one point of personal experience,

Once upon a time--- lol ---
I am Running 'tinfish' flat out to pick up an friends daughter in trouble,
up the Truckee Grade I smell smoke--- the acrid coolant burning smell
any gearhead has been associated with --- lol.

Damn , popped an upper rad hose, coolant is pretty much gone at this
point--- still need to take care of business, I gave My word !!!

Drove another 28 miles to an repair shop, hose, coolant bla bla bla,

After the episode, I put another 38K miles on the same powertrain with out breakdown.

Back on topic,
'up volume' oil system components are a must & readily available
on the 'cheap' Mod !!!
Your Engines life blood is not ethylene glycol :D

P.s,
Humble Thx for the topic Sir !!!
Click to expand...
 
ok, now to throw something in the mix for change.

In this thread I get the sharp vibe that hot rod bliss is synonymous with a well tuned V8. That is cool and all but to some people hot rod haven can be reached with a slant six.

What would you do to be cost effective but warm up a slant six?

I understand this is a tall order because I have a Clifford header and 4 bbl. set up and I can tell you first hand that is was not cheap to buy it all new. :protest:

but assuming someone does not have a big budget but has a slant under the hood and a lot of time, what would you do to warm it up a bit. Not expecting a rocket but just some old fashion hot rodding with what exists.
 
RustyRatRod said:
Budget, duhh. KB's cost more. Plus you have to have file fit rings. They cost more. Plus you have to have the sheen shop file them. Cost more. It is easy to do I know, but I am assuming a newbie here who might not quite have skills yet to do such. Lastly, there is no chance for any type of funky failure in the event "someone" doesn't get the ring gaps right.

JMO that the KB pistons are not needed here.
Click to expand...

Gotcha, sealed power flattops are just as good as the 167s for less coin, plus there are no ring issues w newbies trying to assemble. So the stock cast rings in the sealed power piston kits should be perfectly fine then? Just check end gap prior to assembly, and side gap once on the piston.

As an aside couldent you use a different manufacturers rings with the 167s if you decided to use those pistons. Now dont get me wrong, once i saw the price on the 526 pistons with cast rings i said Haaaaay thats a nice price. Just bringing this up in case somebody here has a set of 167s they havent put in yet, and may be unaware of the issues with the rings that come with those
 
Use factory parts to upgraded older engines.
Search the classifieds for cheap parts. (LMAO)
Copy Bill Deedmans junkyard turbo build.

The problem here is the /6 is an odd ball to hop up and parts are very hard to find much less inexpensive. Also, other engine parts are harder to find vs. a V8's. Less bang for the buck. Then again, swapping out the six for a 8 is t cheap but it does offer a higher ceiling of performance over the /6 in a big way. And that's why it's popular to swap them out.
 
File fitting rings for a specific gap is an easy thing. 99% of all new guys can do this easy.
No fear in taking this on.
While KB suggests a certain gap for there Hyper slugs, ANY hyper slug or forged slug falls under the same catogory.

You can skip file fitting if the gap is good OOTB or if you use plain cast pistons.
 
moparmat2000 said:
Gotcha, sealed power flattops are just as good as the 167s for less coin, plus there are no ring issues w newbies trying to assemble. So the stock cast rings in the sealed power piston kits should be perfectly fine then? Just check end gap prior to assembly, and side gap once on the piston.

As an aside couldent you use a different manufacturers rings with the 167s if you decided to use those pistons. Now dont get me wrong, once i saw the price on the 526 pistons with cast rings i said Haaaaay thats a nice price. Just bringing this up in case somebody here has a set of 167s they havent put in yet, and may be unaware of the issues with the rings that come with those
Click to expand...

Negative. I always spring the extra coin (it ain't much) for a good set of moly rings.
 
rumblefish360 said:
File fitting rings for a specific gap is an easy thing. 99% of all new guys can do this easy.
No fear in taking this on.
While KB suggests a certain gap for there Hyper slugs, ANY hyper slug or forged slug falls under the same catogory.

You can skip file fitting if the gap is good OOTB or if you use plain cast pistons.
Click to expand...

Negative. The Sealed Power hyper pistons do not require special ring gaps. Says so right on their site.
 
Rainy Day Auto said:
ok, now to throw something in the mix for change.

In this thread I get the sharp vibe that hot rod bliss is synonymous with a well tuned V8. That is cool and all but to some people hot rod haven can be reached with a slant six.

What would you do to be cost effective but warm up a slant six?

I understand this is a tall order because I have a Clifford header and 4 bbl. set up and I can tell you first hand that is was not cheap to buy it all new. :protest:

but assuming someone does not have a big budget but has a slant under the hood and a lot of time, what would you do to warm it up a bit. Not expecting a rocket but just some old fashion hot rodding with what exists.
Click to expand...

The slant will never really be "warmed up" naturally aspirated. At least that's my opinion. In other words, while you can and will increase power output with the same bolt ons as a V8, you will never make the same differences in power and torque VS money spent as you can with a V8. It's simple math. The slant is missing 2 pistons.

Certainly, you can do a budget turbo build on a slant, but I really didn't take this thread on to get caught up in that. IMO it's really not something a newbie to the hobby would do because of lack of experience. I know. It CAN be done, and HAS been done.

There is no reason in the world why a slant cannot have a four barrel, headers more compression, hotter cam and better intake for upgrades. Just realize you can do only SO much given those parameters.
 
RustyRatRod said:
Certainly, you can do a budget turbo build on a slant, but I really didn't take this thread on to get caught up in that. IMO it's really not something a newbie to the hobby would do because of lack of experience. I know. It CAN be done, and HAS been done.
Click to expand...

so it basically means that for a newbie on a budget ....a v8 Namely 360 or teen is the way to go ....completely understandable.

Some of us are slant six fans but sometimes it is what it is ....nothing more and nothing less.
 
I love slants. The sad fact is though, that you can spend twice on a slant what you can on a 318 and only end up with 250 HP. If you're lucky.
 
Great thread. This is the type of things needed on this site.
I've always laugh at the people building big HP motors for the street. I always ask where you going? Where can you open up 600HP on the street? And I mean through all the gears not just a quick blast in 1st.
 
Rainy Day Auto said:
so it basically means that for a newbie on a budget ....a v8 Namely 360 or teen is the way to go ....completely understandable.

Some of us are slant six fans but sometimes it is what it is ....nothing more and nothing less.
Click to expand...

If a slant is what you have, work with it. A step up from the one barrel and open the exhaust system and she's worlds better (still not gonna snap your neck, but it'll at least get out of its own way). Put an od 4 speed and some 3.55s and you've got a fun, reliable ride on a budget that will actually get 'decent' gas mileage.
 
That's the way to do it Ben. The Super Six stuff is what I was thinking about earlier.
That 4spd-OD and 3.55's would be a nice torque release.
If working what you got happens to be a sixer & you wanna do it, go for it. I'll not badger you on it.

RRR, thanks for the correction. And Moly rings fur sure. Too inexpensive not to.

Rani, the old MP books have the /6 "TIPS" section. Getting parts for the sixer for or to copy the tops are really close to impossible. If you try it, it would have to be a long term project.
If you would like a copy of it, PM me.

I have had a few very good running six's. They could lay rubber. But they never fit into my "Hot Roding" style. To costly for not enough in return.
 
Ben Drinkin said:
If a slant is what you have, work with it. A step up from the one barrel and open the exhaust system and she's worlds better (still not gonna snap your neck, but it'll at least get out of its own way). Put an od 4 speed and some 3.55s and you've got a fun, reliable ride on a budget that will actually get 'decent' gas mileage.
Click to expand...

yea with an OD it definitely needs 3.23 or lower.

I have an OD in my 68 dart behind the original slant with 2.76 and the take off is weak .....I feel like I need to yell Yabba Dabba doo on take off and run with it to get it going :cheers:
 
Rainy Day Auto said:
yea with an OD it definitely needs 3.23 or lower.

I have an OD in my 68 dart behind the original slant with 2.76 and the take off is weak .....I feel like I need to yell Yabba Dabba doo on take off and run with it to get it going :cheers:
Click to expand...

Im a firm believer in 'match up what you got'. Kind of RRR's point in the beginning. Don't spend buttloads of cash chasing something you don't need. Make the best of what you got on the cheap.. If it don't get you there, you started with the wrong platform.
 
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