Oil leak behind the cam

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Hey did you ever get oil up to the rockers, by turning the crankshaft while priming? If the shop left that plug out I'd be real tempted to slide the cam out to check bearing oil hole alignment...
 
beanhead said:
Hey did you ever get oil up to the rockers, by turning the crankshaft while priming? If the shop left that plug out I'd be real tempted to slide the cam out to check bearing oil hole alignment...
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I’m waiting for the RTV to cure before I try priming again. I did confirm the oil hole alignment prior to installing the cam, all looked good.
 
BTW, when you prime it and try to get oil the the rockers, you need to turn the crank and stop, and then prime for many 20-30 seconds. It takes a while for oil to get to the rockers and fill the rocker shaft. If no joy, then turn the crank 15* at most and stop, then prime it again for 20-30 seconds. It can take a while to find the 2 spots that oil the rockers.
 
AJ/FormS said:
View attachment 1715526350
You see those horizontal "tubes" going off to the oil filter? and you see the vertical one that they intersect? In the space on the vertical, and between the two horizontals; is where the cup plug goes.
If the plug gets left out, the oil doesn't get filtered.
If a second plug is installed, it will very nearly block the passage. It will probably read normal at idle, but as the revs increase there will be insufficient oil delivery.
As the contractor, foreman, and lead hand , of the project, it is on you to make sure it gets assembled right. Unless your father assembled it, trust no one; especially not your machine shop cuz they already IMO, screwed up by not replacing the plug that they took out.
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I'm not trying to defend the machine shop, but in his defense, all I asked him to do was remove the cam/bearings, replace the bearings, hone the cylinders, and give it a hot bath. I didn't ask him to remove any of the plugs as I had planned on replacing them myself. So, when I went to replace the plugs, I did so one by one. That's how I missed the rear cam plug.

nm9stheham said:
BTW, when you prime it and try to get oil the the rockers, you need to turn the crank and stop, and then prime for many 20-30 seconds. It takes a while for oil to get to the rockers and fill the rocker shaft. If no joy, then turn the crank 15* at most and stop, then prime it again for 20-30 seconds. It can take a while to find the 2 spots that oil the rockers.
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That's what I was doing, but then again I got distracted by the damn oil leaking from the back of the block. I'll give it another go. I think I can reach far enough to engage the drill motor and turn the crank at the same time.
 
Righty Tighty said:
I'm not trying to defend the machine shop, but in his defense, all I asked him to do was remove the cam/bearings, replace the bearings, hone the cylinders, and give it a hot bath. I didn't ask him to remove any of the plugs as I had planned on replacing them myself. So, when I went to replace the plugs, I did so one by one. That's how I missed the rear cam plug.



That's what I was doing, but then again I got distracted by the damn oil leaking from the back of the block. I'll give it another go. I think I can reach far enough to engage the drill motor and turn the crank at the same time.
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We've all made mistakes. Some of us have even started the engine with the ratchet still hanging on the crank socket..:rolleyes:
 
Righty Tighty said:
I'll call your ratchet and raise you a "reverse at highway speed"
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On a small block:
Turn the motor to 90* before top dead center coming up on #1 compression. The pass. side rockers should get oil.
Turn the motor to 20* after top dead center just past #6 compression. The drivers side rockers should get oil.
 
70aarcuda said:
On a small block:
Turn the motor to 90* before top dead center coming up on #1 compression. The pass. side rockers should get oil.
Turn the motor to 20* after top dead center just past #6 compression. The drivers side rockers should get oil.
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Thanks for that. I’m going to write this down because I never remember it. It’s an old age thing.
 
I copied it off Hughes website a few years ago and saved it.....
 
ou know that using rhe turn and orimw repear merhod yoy have to go around twice
at least the lifters should bleed down if someone precharged them with oil
better even than bent valves and pushrods
I didnt remember that
figured it out a long time ago and then forgot
I'll wirte it down and forget where
 
One other point to make here is, how clean is that block, after receiving your block back it's a good idea to wash the living crap out of it, that includes the oil galleries and for that to happen you need to remove all the gallery plugs, who knows what may found is way in there after being at the machine shop. Maybe you did , just thought I'd mention it.
 
AJ/FormS said:
View attachment 1715526294
Hang on a sec; you see that bag of pipe plugs? Any chance they also are "extras",lol? You know that at least a couple of them belongs inside the engine, right?
And missing them will cause catastrophic engine failure.
And don't forget the tiny cup plug that goes up into the galley from the bottom of the engine to seperate the oil into two paths; the first is to the filter and the second takes filtered oil into the rest of the system. If not there, your oil will not get filtered. I can just barely see the cup plug in the bag..........
And there is another plug in the cavity behind the oil filter, don't forget that one,lol.
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Normally thoses two small plugs that come in the kit are for the oil galleries behind the cam retaining plate aren't they.
 
Wyrmrider said:
ou know that using rhe turn and orimw repear merhod yoy have to go around twice
at least the lifters should bleed down if someone precharged them with oil
better even than bent valves and pushrods
I didnt remember that
figured it out a long time ago and then forgot
I'll wirte it down and forget where
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You need some sleep. Your typing is gibberish.
 
Righty Tighty said:
I think I can reach far enough to engage the drill motor and turn the crank at the same time.
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This is missing the point. If you turn the crank while priming, you will not ever see the oil to the rockers. In a non-running setup, it takes that 20-30 seconds to see the oil when the crank is stopped in the right location(s). Stopping the crank in fixed spots is not for convenience; it is to have any chance of seeing the oil coming out of the rockers.

70aarcuda has given you the shortcut in post #34. If the cam it drilled with the correct indexing, then this will save you time in finding the right spots. In a very few cases, however, the cam's oiling holes are indexed incorrectly. So then you turn 15* at a time and prime....and keep doing it over and over.
 
70aarcuda said:
On a small block:
Turn the motor to 90* before top dead center coming up on #1 compression. The pass. side rockers should get oil.
Turn the motor to 20* after top dead center just past #6 compression. The drivers side rockers should get oil.
Click to expand...

nm9stheham said:
This is missing the point. If you turn the crank while priming, you will not ever see the oil to the rockers. In a non-running setup, it takes that 20-30 seconds to see the oil when the crank is stopped in the right location(s). Stopping the crank in fixed spots is not for convenience; it is to have any chance of seeing the oil coming out of the rockers.

70aarcuda has given you the shortcut in post #34. If the cam it drilled with the correct indexing, then this will save you time in finding the right spots. In a very few cases, however, the cam's oiling holes are indexed incorrectly. So then you turn 15* at a time and prime....and keep doing it over and over.
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Thanks, hope it didn't seem like I was ignoring the advice. Sometimes I need to be slapped with an idea a few times before it sinks through my thick skull.
 
Righty Tighty said:
Thanks, hope it didn't seem like I was ignoring the advice. Sometimes I need to be slapped with an idea a few times before it sinks through my thick skull.
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Here's a photo. Note the oil holes. When the holes like up with the oil holes in the cam bearings, oil travels through. The only time you can get oil to the top while priming is if you can find the spot where the holes line up or when you spin past them it will spurt oil to the heads. That's what it does when it's running. In a perfect world, the cam companies would groove the bearing surface for a constant flow. Maybe that would put too much oil up top. Those Chrysler engineers were pretty smart.

340 cam.jpg
 
Thanks TMM, the visual helps me understand.

AJ/FormS said:
View attachment 1715526294
Hang on a sec; you see that bag of pipe plugs? Any chance they also are "extras",lol? You know that at least a couple of them belongs inside the engine, right?
And missing them will cause catastrophic engine failure.
And don't forget the tiny cup plug that goes up into the galley from the bottom of the engine to seperate the oil into two paths; the first is to the filter and the second takes filtered oil into the rest of the system. If not there, your oil will not get filtered. I can just barely see the cup plug in the bag..........
And there is another plug in the cavity behind the oil filter, don't forget that one,lol.
Click to expand...

dodgy said:
Normally thoses two small plugs that come in the kit are for the oil galleries behind the cam retaining plate aren't they.
Click to expand...

Now I don't want to beat a dead horse regarding the plugs, but is there any reason a shop would remove those to get the camshaft and cam bearings out? I'm just thinking that they're still there. The only plugs I used from the kit were the plugs I removed (aside from the cam plug, which is now installed). Does that make sense?
 
Righty Tighty said:
Thanks TMM, the visual helps me understand.





Now I don't want to beat a dead horse regarding the plugs, but is there any reason a shop would remove those to get the camshaft and cam bearings out? I'm just thinking that they're still there. The only plugs I used from the kit were the plugs I removed (aside from the cam plug, which is now installed). Does that make sense?
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Not that I can see. If they did the work you mentioned they shouldn't have removed any plugs. Like others have mentioned, after any machine work (no matter how good they cleaned it) clean it again. I use gun cleaning brushes, brake clean and compressed air to make sure all the oil passages were clean.
 
I cleaned it three times. Once when I got it back, once after chasing threads, and again while prepping for paint. First two cleanings were more thorough than the last, rotated the block on the stand to let the brake cleaner drain out and take any debris with it, and compressed air.....LOTS of compressed air at any angle I could think of. Then it spent its life inside a bag until the heads and intake were on. Even now, I have the intake/exhaust ports taped up, as well as cooling passages. I don't trust myself because the way things go around here, I'm liable to drop a bottle cap where the sun don't shine.
 
Probably the most important drive in plug is the one under the main cap for the oil pump/filter. That has to be purposely removed to be an issue. (unless they boiled the block in caustic solution) I am trying to find a diagram. I had one saved on my other computer but can't seen to locate it.
 
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