So what IS a muscle car?

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RustyRatRod said:
The Valiant was available with the 4 barrel 273. Was it a muscle car? Chrysler didn't think so.
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It should have been. It's like the term "muscle car" didn't come about until about 68'.
 
toolmanmike said:
It should have been. It's like the term "muscle car" didn't come about until about 68'.
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That's right. I agree. It absolutely should have been. Just like the D Dart. The D Dart was a factory race car though.
 
A Muscle car should have letters behind it's name, like; anything with a; G,A,R,S,T, or X, at least; like
GS,GSS,GT,GTX,R/T,R/S,S,SS,SX, AAR, etc.
GTX, and AAR, are great cuz those have 3 of the key letters.
Or it should have numbers like; 426/440/383/340,etc.
Or it should have a readily recognizable name/nickname like; Swinger, 'Cuda, G-Tex, Sport,SuperBee,
and not like;Tank, barge, leadsled, grocery-getter, or 'Doba

But I think it all comes down to being able to smoke G60s; If you can't fit G60s in the tubs, it ain't a muscle car.
If you can't smoke'em into second, don't show up.
More muscle will smoke 'em right thru second.
Most muscle will still be smoking'em in third.
This allows unconventionals in, like; 440 Newports, or a big engine Polara/Monaco. Typically we don't think of these as Muscle cars, But if you ever get a chance to ride in one; pay attention to the speedOmeter after 50/60 mph. Once she gets up, that speedO picks up speed faster than most any factory 340 car ever did.
I got the surprise of my life in 1971 or 2, when I finally agreed to race a 68ish NP. I had a low 14 second, as most of them were, 70Swinger 340/4-spd,. But I set the cut-off point at the top of third gear which was 90mph. Cuz in 4th, my engine sorta went to sleep, trying to pull 3.55s.
From the start, I got way out ahead, I mean waaaaay out. I was thinking this is gonna end in my favor. I yank the stick into third and check my rv mirror, and the spec of Newport is now nearly filling it up. At 85 he is pulling to my bumper and this thing is really moving. At 90 he is in my passenger side door. HONK!HONK! in the nick of time.
Now; my car Trapped at 98mph and change. In the quarter, he would have annihilated me. I learned a lesson that day; stay away from 440s.
So, is a 440 equipped 68 Newport a muscle car? Not in the usual sense. But I bet this one would have ET'd close to or in, the 13s. And that is very definitely in Muscle-Car Territory.
Funny thing is, I don't remember this NP having any letters, or numbers, in it's name, nor a nicname........ well, it did after that day. To me it was; "Bad Medicine"
 
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What is a muscle car? Easy...

A muscle car is an addictive hole in the pavement To pour money in.
:lol:
 
gdrill said:
I did not coin the phrase! It’s been around since the cars have been. I would consider those two muscle cars. Big engines, light bodies.
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Oh I know. I think it was coined when the Rustang came about.
 
Wait a minute! You mean they aren't called "muscle cars" because of all the muscles you grew changing parts?
 
I was talking to a guy this weekend about his corvette. He said when he bought in the 70s he was hauling *** down the highway in the middle of the night and his buddy said there’s a car catching up to us. He said it’s either a COP or a Mopar. Sure enough he said it was a Mopar, a Coronet Wagon loaded down. Passed him up like he was sitting still. The old man driving just waved as he passed him at over 100mph
 
Murray said:
Only someone under 40yrs old would ask that question. If you are 50 or more- you know the answer.
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The whole discussion was started over here
Starting on a 1974 Plymouth Duster

When I made the statement that a high impact color doesn't look right on a muscle car, because it was an extra cost option that didn't make the car faster and IMHO a muscle car shouldn't have any of those

Then lilorangeleroy asked if I though a 2020 scatpack R/T in a certain color would be a muscle car, which I denied based on the sheer cost of the machine (over 40% more then a base challenger) and the ridiculous long list of options that come with it (the more I think of it, the more I think that car would qualify as a supercar)


Rather then keep clogging up the thread we were in the little orange one decided to start this thread, so we all can voice our opinion on it
 
I think to be legitimately called a musclecar, it has to be a factory-build combination. If you couldn't build it by the option sheet, it's a hot rod, not a muscle car.
 
The Muscle Car era was mainly marketing by the Big 3. Muscle cars where factory built American cars. People under 45 think every 2 door car built in the 60s and 70s is a Muscle Car.
 
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loganscuda said:
I was talking to a guy this weekend about his corvette. He said when he bought in the 70s he was hauling *** down the highway in the middle of the night and his buddy said there’s a car catching up to us. He said it’s either a COP or a Mopar. Sure enough he said it was a Mopar, a Coronet Wagon loaded down. Passed him up like he was sitting still. The old man driving just waved as he passed him at over 100mph
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In 1975 I was in a Mopar club. We were in a member’s 1969 Super Bee that had a lot of Direct Connection parts including a six-pack on the tricked out 383. We were doing 70-75 on the 10 Freeway when the car was rocked side to side by a 1964 Jaguar XKE. The dude was pulling hard past us. We chided the driver of the Bee and he cut in the six-pack. The shotgun passenger spoke up after a few seconds and said that he was doing 120! The driver said that he wasn’t full throttle yet but that we were starting to gain on the Jag. Just then the Bee was rocked side to side again and we all looked to the left to see a California Highway Patrol car. It was a 1969 Polara with the 440 Interceptor engine. The officer glanced over and grinned at us as he flashed by. The driver of the Bee eased off the throttle and brought the car down to 65 MPH because there might have been other CHP cars coming up from behind.
 
diymirage said:
Then lilorangeleroy asked if I though a 2020 scatpack R/T in a certain color would be a muscle car, which I denied based on the sheer cost of the machine (over 40% more then a base challenger) and the ridiculous long list of options that come with it (the more I think of it, the more I think that car would qualify as a supercar)
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I think it’s a little bit of a straw man to point at the cost of the car and say it isn’t a muscle car. It’s not like a base 1970 Hemi Cuda cost the same as base 1970 Barracuda. Performance cost then just like it does now.

And a base Challenger today is a 300 hp V6, not what I would call a muscle car by any stretch of the imagination. Great car, probably faster than my Duster right now, but not a muscle car. But if you want to get into something that you can at least talk about the idea with, you have to buy at least an R/T (which some would argue still doesn’t hit the performance threshold for a muscle car), or a Scat Pack. And the Scat Pack really doesn’t come with a huge list of luxury items. Still has cloth seats, but upgraded radio to the 8.4 (required for Performance Pages), no heated/cooled seats, adaptive cruise, blind spot monitoring, etc. Really the big differences between a base R/T and a Scat Pack is the bigger motor, brakes, wheels and better bolstered seats. In my mind, all performance adds.

BTW, if I remember the convo from the other thread correctly, the Scat Pack doesn’t have 707 hp, “only” 485. Have to get the Hellcat to get 707 hp.
 
DionR said:
I think it’s a little bit of a straw man to point at the cost of the car and say it isn’t a muscle car. It’s not like a base 1970 Hemi Cuda cost the same as base 1970 Barracuda. Performance cost then just like it does now.

And a base Challenger today is a 300 hp V6, not what I would call a muscle car by any stretch of the imagination. Great car, probably faster than my Duster right now, but not a muscle car. But if you want to get into something that you can at least talk about the idea with, you have to buy at least an R/T (which some would argue still doesn’t hit the performance threshold for a muscle car), or a Scat Pack. And the Scat Pack really doesn’t come with a huge list of luxury items. Still has cloth seats, but upgraded radio to the 8.4 (required for Performance Pages), no heated/cooled seats, adaptive cruise, blind spot monitoring, etc. Really the big differences between a base R/T and a Scat Pack is the bigger motor, brakes, wheels and better bolstered seats. In my mind, all performance adds.

BTW, if I remember the convo from the other thread correctly, the Scat Pack doesn’t have 707 hp, “only” 485. Have to get the Hellcat to get 707 hp.
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fair enough lets look at the 1970 base cuda...MSRP was $3164
the hemi engine was an upcharge of $871.45...that is 27.5 % increase (compared to the 40% i believe the scatpack was)

so i guess going fast always costs money
 
gdrill said:
"Just what is a Muscle Car? Exactly what the name implies. It is a product of the American car industry adhering to the hot rodder's philosophy of taking a small car and putting a BIG engine in it. To balance this out, handling, braking and related essentials are modified to result in a performance machine for the streets. They tack racy names to the car: GTA, GTO, GTX, or just plain GT; R/T, SST, SS, GS or, for the lack of better initials, 4-4-2. They doll the car up with fancy trimmings and put it up for sale. And it sells like crazy"....Road Test Magazine 1967
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I was thinking about an A12 the one you had to take the hood off to check the oil, now that is a muscle car.
 
Muscle car is when you look at that sleek body design when they had character and body lines when body lines gave definition and you could see strength , big block or small block and even a 6 banger in the right car , muscle is in the eye of the beholder and they do not make them any more
 
Out of the ordinary I could think of a W30 or a Datsun 240Z, Back in the early 90's my friends buddy's raced a 240Z at mid Ohio 24 hr race and they came in second overall and first in there class. We were there helping out and taking turns timing, we were up all night and having fun.
 
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