What's broke?

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AJ/FormS said:
... 1) you do not need an arbor, to hold the needle-rollers in place during a rebuild; just use a light grease; not Vaseline which at room temperature is barely grease. It is called jelly for a reason...
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I also use axle grease to hold the needles in place. The Arbor Tool is nice since it also holds the thrust washers in place and is hollow to aid in getting everything in the right position before installing the countershaft. Plus the tool also only costs $13. I've also rebuilt A-833s without the tool, but not anymore.

Brewer's Performance - Mopar A833 4-Speed Transmission and Component Specialists
 
AJ/FormS said:
If the engine is the source of the vibration, it often happens that said vibration causes the cluster to rattle amongst the gears and specifically against the Input gear.
Therefore, I would look to the engine FIRST before dropping the trans.
The most common thing to cause a vibration of the type you describe, would be a contaminant in the fuel.
The second most common thing would be debris in the idle bleeds.
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Understood and agreed. That's what bothers me most about the matter...that it's maybe engine based not transmission based. I have spent time looking for the problem from an engine perspective, mostly spark; wires, rotor, cap, boots and such. I have not found anything wrong to date...but I am certainly aware of the possibility.

Air bleeds never occurred to me. I'll take a look at them, give 'em a flush.

Thanks.
 
canyncarvr said:
TO bearing does not touch the plate fingers when running, clutch pedal not pressed. When the noise is going on...the TO bearing is not moving.



A Hurst T-handle with a Line-Loc button.
View attachment 1716074789




I hope to not be so lucky with my noises.

This occurred to me: Some years back I knew a guy that put a ceramic clutch in his Gen-2 Cummins Dodge. He pulled 20,000lbs. with it. The truck seemed to care less. You only knew you had 20Klbs. on your butt when you used the brakes. The clutch outfit said the clutch would make noise. Oh Yeah! It sounded like something was going to grenade. That never happened. The noise his trans made with that clutch is similar to what I'm hearing. The clutch mfg. referred to it as 'gear over-run'. That doesn't fit the definition of which I am familiar.



I don't hear it when driving. I hear it ONLY sitting..in neutral...clutch pedal not
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Have you checked the shifter body and linkage to make sure something isn't loose there?
canyncarvr said:
Got my GL-4 goo yesterday. I'll know this weekend if the noise is worse/better/the same.
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360notch said:
Have you checked the shifter body and linkage to make sure something isn't loose there?
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Yes. Everything there is snug...complete with proper spring clips on the shifter rod ends.

This noise is not of an external nature. There is a 'depth' to the noise. It seems to be coming from inside the trans.

I did recently replace the OEM crossmember mount with a poly-bushed version. That could well account for the 'newness' of the noise to me. Replacement of that mount did not coincide with noticing the vibration part though.

In anticipation of any who would say, 'How could you take out the mushy-old rubber mount, put in a new poly mount and not notice a difference in feel?' I'm not saying that. There was a difference in feel...but it's not that vibration that's part of this matter.
 
Update:


New lube in the tranny. If I hadn't heard it before to have an idea what to listen FOR, I wouldn't hear anything now. The way it is now would never have caught my attention.

I was figuring it would shift a whole lot different going from ATF to 90W gear oil. Not so much. Different? Yeah. Enough to be an irritation? Not even close.

I'm going to rack it up to paranoia...drive it 'til it REALLY breaks.

Thanks to all for their input. Lesson learned: If you don't want to hear noise from your 833, don't run ATF in it.

...not that anyone with any sense would do such a thing.

Gave a squirt of cleaner down all four air bleeds. Heard 'em all gurgle in the fuel tube. Apparently nothing plugged up there.

Fixed burned wires for the reverse lights. They've been no-op for years. Guess something good came from having the car up in the air.
 
No bueno.

Noise was MUCH reduced, but a good-n-hot ride later brought it noticeably back.

It's (trans) gotta come out.

Thanks to all for input. I do understand it was starry-eyed wishin' that a fluid change would 'fix' anything, but I was hopeful.

...don't like that word. It might make one feel better, but it is a baseless proposition. 'If wishes were horses....beggars would ride.'

I'll 'hope' for a horse!

I know: I hope Mr. Dan sends me a new trans just 'cuz he 'hopes' my wish to come true! ;)
 
Good luck with it. I assembled on gearbox and used a piece of heater hose for the arbor in the cluster.
 
A finishing touch is required for the possible edumuhcation of future readers: I think my noise/vibration was not the transmission at all. It was my ignition coil. I was running a brand new Accel 140001 (big yell'a brick). My previous coil was the same make/model that I'd run for 30 years, was just looking for a 'freshening up'. The 'new' one completely puked and died. Well...the engine quit and it turned out to be that 'new' coil. After replacing it, it was clear that something else had been going on...before the mortal failure.

For all the folks that say, 'You should have known better,' I'll just agree.

AJ-said said:
Therefore, I would look to the engine FIRST before dropping the trans.
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He was right. I DID as he suggested, didn't find a problem. It did not appear to be a hard-miss or a consistent miss. Call it, maybe, a sporadic mis-fire. Any way I look at it...I 'missed' it. Ha!

I could be wrong. It wouldn't be the first time for that. Seems I waited a year and spent a couple thousand $$ on a transmission that wasn't needed. Oh well. The rebuilt trans I got is certainly sweet...with all of a <100 miles under its belt.

Que sera sera
 
canyncarvr said:
...not that anyone with any sense would do such a thing.
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Friend, them's fighting words. And yes, I know you were kidding.
I ran Dectron II for many years, probably many decades on account of the synchros bite way harder, than with EP oil. I only switched to 50% 85/90, or 85/115, whatever is handy, as I noticed the wear on the cluster pin. Straight ATF shifts like lightning.
But yes, if the ball-bearings are growly, the ATF will certainly let you know.

Glad you finally got it figured out.
 
canyncarvr said:
Engine running, trans in neutral, clutch pedal pushed, things are quiet. Let the pedal out, and I can hear and feel (in the shifter) a gravelly racket. Not quite rocks in a blender, but there is certainly something crunchy going on in the milkshake. Not a 'thin' noise, but grumbly.
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So this caused by a faulty ignition coil? Really??
 
That is my sense of the event, yes. There were several things happening at the same time. I could have misread events, but I don't think so.

I was concerned from the beginning with how the whole noise/mess (what started this thread) came about. The 'feel' at the shifter didn't seem to quite fit my early diagnosis (transmission front bearing failure). Replacement of the transmission did smooth out anything that seemed to maybe be coming FROM the transmission...but the first-noticed 'not quite right' input was still there and identical to my first 'What's this?' impression with the original trans.

A shake/shudder/shiver on the input of the trans would certainly translate through the trans. No rocket science there, but the vibration was 'off' enough to be misleading. To me, anyway.

I found out long ago that ignition coils can do strange things. With an MSD-5C box and an Accel Super Coil (recommended by MSD to run with that box) I experienced several 'vapor lock' seeming failures. I never did figure it out at the time that problem cropped up. It didn't happen on race-days, it didn't take an abnormally hot engine or an unusually stressed engine (mountain pass climbing). The problem would just 'happen'. The engine would respond to more fuel (dump the accelerator pumps into the engine), but it would not 'cruise' for diddle...missing/stumbling something awful. Bad enough to fumble off to the side of the road and turn it off. The ONLY thing I found that effected the problem was to change all the plugs. YEARS later, it was Mattax IIRC that said an overheated coil could cause what seemed to be a vapor lock issue. By then my MSD box had suffered a complete failure so I wasn't using it. Still used the Accel 140001 though. Never had the problem again after offing the -5C box.

A btw...but with that MSD box I had constant problems with detonation at 'cylinder fill' time of around 3200rpm. Ate a piston with it eventually even with timing turned down such that I did not HEAR any pinging. After the complete failure of the MSD box (engine quit running in the driveway one day) and putting in a Chrysler style spark box, the detonation problem disappeared. Everyone I asked at the time said, 'That's not possible,' including MSD. Fine...except...I was here and I saw/heard it happen.

I'm sayin'....coils/ignition can do strange things.

**edit**
May be unclear what I'm saying. Hey! It's clear to me!! The best term I can think of that would explain how an ignition problem could cause what seemed to be noise coming of the transmission is 'gear roll-over' noise. That term is commonly used in diesel applications, probably due to the torque involved in a diesel. The engine literally slaps the transmission silly with input pulses. Gear roll-over noise is usually lessened with a change to a higher viscosity lubricant in the transmission. That was the case in this case.

Who all here remembers the M-22? ;)
 
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AJ/FormS said:
Friend, them's fighting words. And yes, I know you were kidding.
I ran Dectron II for many years....
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I recall that you have 'cuz I read what you write. AND....might even remember some of it.

This: ...not that anyone with any sense would do such a thing.

...however was a poke at my own self, having done exactly that (run ATF and encountered...I thought...a problem).
 
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