I Think I Don't Want These Computers in Cars Anymore

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Much of this thread is why I'm looking for another 80s D250. My 78 fury rides better than any of the new junk I have to drive at the job.
I don't need something with 19 computer modules to get me from A to B.
 
Went to the local U-Pull-Our-Parts yard yesterday to check their inventory in Rosemount MN, had not been there for about 4 years.

Gut wrenching experience, all computer controlled used up vehicles > worthless that should go straight to the crusher.

This is what the future of used parts now looks like.


Glad I was able to find a D100 that a person can still easily work on and rebuild if needed. None of these in the parts yard.


☆☆☆☆☆
 
Went to the local U-Pull-Our-Parts yard yesterday to check their inventory in Rosemount MN, had not been there for about 4 years.

Gut wrenching experience, all computer controlled used up vehicles > worthless that should go straight to the crusher.

This is what the future of used parts now looks like.


Glad I was able to find a D100 that a person can still easily work on and rebuild if needed. None of these in the parts yard.


☆☆☆☆☆
Much the same thing here in any of the local yards, all late model crap.
 
Computer controlled vehicles is only basically every car made for the last 35 years, not sure why you'd expect anything different at this point.

I'd still argue there are plenty of them that are really easy to work on if you even have to. I have a Cruze I bought new and I won't try to tell you its a phenominal car (only issues are related to the engine/transmission, the rest of the car has held up well), but man is that thing easy to work on. I changed the intake manifold in 20 minutes (it has an integrated check valve in it that failed), no water, no rtv, no throttle cable, just a 4" extension, the right socket and a ratchet. Most other things are similarly easy. Part was $50 for an OEM. Just did the front wheel bearings and each side took under an hour.
 
Computer controlled vehicles is only basically every car made for the last 35 years, not sure why you'd expect anything different at this point.

I'd still argue there are plenty of them that are really easy to work on if you even have to. I have a Cruze I bought new and I won't try to tell you its a phenominal car (only issues are related to the engine/transmission, the rest of the car has held up well), but man is that thing easy to work on. I changed the intake manifold in 20 minutes (it has an integrated check valve in it that failed), no water, no rtv, no throttle cable, just a 4" extension, the right socket and a ratchet. Most other things are similarly easy. Part was $50 for an OEM. Just did the front wheel bearings and each side took under an hour.
I agree that there is a simplicity to some repairs on the modern cars, at least in some instances, my point is the older stuff is getting harder to keep on the road, especially late 1990s to mid 2000s.
 
Not due to being complicated/ complex, as much as part availability
 
I have a bunch of new ecm's from about 88 thru 94's mostly Rangers, bronco 2's, Aerostars ect.
 
Yeah I have a shelf full too.... Mostly Dodge and Jeep
 
I wish you could. No one makes a simple car anymore. Too bad. I'll bet people would buy a simple no computer car if one was made. Knowing our Gov. they probably would not let that happen.
That would require them to back up to carburetors. That's not gonna happen.
 
Much of this thread is why I'm looking for another 80s D250. My 78 fury rides better than any of the new junk I have to drive at the job.
I don't need something with 19 computer modules to get me from A to B.
Right, plus they only make those modules for a few years and then, screw you, they're obsolete. Then, you have to get them rebuilt or hope you can find a good used one.
 
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Computer controlled vehicles is only basically every car made for the last 35 years, not sure why you'd expect anything different at this point.

I'd still argue there are plenty of them that are really easy to work on if you even have to. I have a Cruze I bought new and I won't try to tell you its a phenominal car (only issues are related to the engine/transmission, the rest of the car has held up well), but man is that thing easy to work on. I changed the intake manifold in 20 minutes (it has an integrated check valve in it that failed), no water, no rtv, no throttle cable, just a 4" extension, the right socket and a ratchet. Most other things are similarly easy. Part was $50 for an OEM. Just did the front wheel bearings and each side took under an hour.
When OBDI came out, the rage was "everything will be standardized across the board". My big old butt. When OBDII came out the rage was "everything will be standardized across the board". We all just laughed. Every automaker has "their own version" of what was supposed to be "standardized" and you need 20K worth of diagnostic tools and adapters and connectors to read everything. Don't give me the "computer cars are easier" bullshit. Keep it to yourself. I was THERE when it all started and all it did was make money for rich politicians and that's all it still does. That and it makes DAMN SURE there'll be clapped out computer cars sitting in a lot of back yards, because either no one can diagnose what's wrong, OR the owners cannot afford to have them fixed.
 
When OBDI came out, the rage was "everything will be standardized across the board". My big old butt. When OBDII came out the rage was "everything will be standardized across the board". We all just laughed. Every automaker has "their own version" of what was supposed to be "standardized" and you need 20K worth of diagnostic tools and adapters and connectors to read everything. Don't give me the "computer cars are easier" bullshit. Keep it to yourself. I was THERE when it all started and all it did was make money for rich politicians and that's all it still does. That and it makes DAMN SURE there'll be clapped out computer cars sitting in a lot of back yards, because either no one can diagnose what's wrong, OR the owners cannot afford to have them fixed.
This is basically the rage against things you are unwilling to understand mentality. The cars as they get newer practically scream whats wrong at you. Most failures are pattern failures so once the cars get old every single issue has been seen before and it's just connect the dots. In an extreme case you might have to read a wiring diagram or use an ocilliscope.

OBD1 cars have different connectors and whatnot but the codes are only somewhat useful and there's extremely limited live data, but then again most of them you can read the codes with a paper clip and use google. The things that fail most on these cars are fuel pumps, oxygen sensors, and ignition parts. Most are basically old engines with EFI retrofits. Pretty simple systems regardless.

OBD2, any year 1996-2025 you can read the codes out of the PCM with the same tool, I use a bluetooth dongle with my phone and can read live data. There is some special stuff for communicating with other modules and self tests but the universal scanners that are more expensive can do all that, never needed one. And these are maybe like $850 scanners right now.

My Dad has a 94 Cutlass Supreme Convertible that is as old as my Duster was when I got it in 2000, this thing has everything original except the timing belt, fuel pump, wires, hoses, ignition module, radiator, exhaust you name it, Starts reliabliy every time, runs perfect. Hasn't had an issue for 19 years. The Duster and most of our Mopars had at least a few carb rebuilds, a fuel pump, how many sets of points, wires, plugs, etc over 30 years? Even cars that get driven every year but rarely how long do you go between taking the carb apart? 10-12 years if you're lucky, probably less with ethanol fuel now. Did my EFI conversion 9 years ago and haven't done anything but play with the tune on the laptop.

My friend literally daily drives a 1996 K2500 pickup that's around 250k miles, original engine, all working flawlessly without a check engine light. Don't have to wrench on it all the time.

Carb problems and crappy wiring and the older engines and transmissions wearing out, plus carburators that are not set that great not being good in winter killed a whole ton of carb cars. Living in the north all my life, not that many people daily drove cars with carbs by the mid-late 90s. You almost never see anyone DD'ing a carbed 70s or 80s car though I still regularly see late 80s and early 90s EFI stuff. This area you see 88-98 Chevy full size trucks constantly.

EFI improved the lifespan, fuel economy, and reliability of the cars. They got a little crazy on some of the other electronics but the things that make it run were made better.

The additional issue with older cars is the replacement part quality is right in the absolute crapper now.

I remember buying a car that "nobody" could fix and all you had to do was start it and uplug the #3 fuel injector that was stuck wide open and you knew that was the problem because the engine ran better, bought a new injector and it ran like new. Its like anything, its a little different so you have to understand how it works first.
 
This is basically the rage against things you are unwilling to understand mentality. The cars as they get newer practically scream whats wrong at you. Most failures are pattern failures so once the cars get old every single issue has been seen before and it's just connect the dots. In an extreme case you might have to read a wiring diagram or use an ocilliscope.

OBD1 cars have different connectors and whatnot but the codes are only somewhat useful and there's extremely limited live data, but then again most of them you can read the codes with a paper clip and use google. The things that fail most on these cars are fuel pumps, oxygen sensors, and ignition parts. Most are basically old engines with EFI retrofits. Pretty simple systems regardless.

OBD2, any year 1996-2025 you can read the codes out of the PCM with the same tool, I use a bluetooth dongle with my phone and can read live data. There is some special stuff for communicating with other modules and self tests but the universal scanners that are more expensive can do all that, never needed one. And these are maybe like $850 scanners right now.

My Dad has a 94 Cutlass Supreme Convertible that is as old as my Duster was when I got it in 2000, this thing has everything original except the timing belt, fuel pump, wires, hoses, ignition module, radiator, exhaust you name it, Starts reliabliy every time, runs perfect. Hasn't had an issue for 19 years. The Duster and most of our Mopars had at least a few carb rebuilds, a fuel pump, how many sets of points, wires, plugs, etc over 30 years? Even cars that get driven every year but rarely how long do you go between taking the carb apart? 10-12 years if you're lucky, probably less with ethanol fuel now. Did my EFI conversion 9 years ago and haven't done anything but play with the tune on the laptop.

My friend literally daily drives a 1996 K2500 pickup that's around 250k miles, original engine, all working flawlessly without a check engine light. Don't have to wrench on it all the time.

Carb problems and crappy wiring and the older engines and transmissions wearing out, plus carburators that are not set that great not being good in winter killed a whole ton of carb cars. Living in the north all my life, not that many people daily drove cars with carbs by the mid-late 90s. You almost never see anyone DD'ing a carbed 70s or 80s car though I still regularly see late 80s and early 90s EFI stuff. This area you see 88-98 Chevy full size trucks constantly.

EFI improved the lifespan, fuel economy, and reliability of the cars. They got a little crazy on some of the other electronics but the things that make it run were made better.

The additional issue with older cars is the replacement part quality is right in the absolute crapper now.

I remember buying a car that "nobody" could fix and all you had to do was start it and uplug the #3 fuel injector that was stuck wide open and you knew that was the problem because the engine ran better, bought a new injector and it ran like new. Its like anything, its a little different so you have to understand how it works first.
Yeah I get it all the time. Because "I don't like it, I don't understand it". Well you're wrong. I do understand it probably more than most. I understand it enough that I don't want any part of it. I understand gay sex with another man but I want no part of that, either. Do you get THAT?
 
Yeah I get it all the time. Because "I don't like it, I don't understand it". Well you're wrong. I do understand it probably more than most. I understand it enough that I don't want any part of it. I understand gay sex with another man but I want no part of that, either. Do you get THAT?
If it's too hard to fix you don't understand it. It's okay to not understand something, but saying it's objectively worse is not true. You can continue to hide in your comfort zone of the past and carry your extra ballast resistor, cap, rotor, ignition module, spark plugs, screwdriver, carb spray in the trunk pretending that means its more reliable all you want. Throwing parts at it when it inevitably isn't running right. Doesn't matter to me. Just doesn't make it true. I don't understand the second part because I don't swing that way and never tried it but its also not relevant. Thought we were talking about cars.
 
If it's too hard to fix you don't understand it. It's okay to not understand something, but saying it's objectively worse is not true. You can continue to hide in your comfort zone of the past and carry your extra ballast resistor, cap, rotor, ignition module, spark plugs, screwdriver, carb spray in the trunk pretending that means its more reliable all you want. Throwing parts at it when it inevitably isn't running right. Doesn't matter to me. Just doesn't make it true. I don't understand the second part because I don't swing that way and never tried it but its also not relevant. Thought we were talking about cars.
LOL
 
That generation of escort is a good car. I bet someone didn't put the clip on correctly.
The early generation of FI escorts were really reliable cars, had a couple.

My buddy also had one, but he was hard on clutches.
He would call me up, say the clutch is out, he knew the routine, have it jacked up, front end off the ground, sitting in the driveway.
I got off work about an hr earlier than he did, when he came home I would have the trans out.
He knew the drill, have NAPA turn the flywheel, new clutch kit.
I must have done this at least 4 times. The car never did die, he just traded up for a newer truck.
 
If it's too hard to fix you don't understand it. It's okay to not understand something, but saying it's objectively worse is not true.
It IS worse for the person who doesn't understand it as the cost to bring to someone is crazy. I had a friend with an Audi. His repair bills were more than his payments. He sold it. 5-year-old car.
 
I understand gay sex with another man but I want no part of that, either

wtf_blazing_saddles.gif
 
It IS worse for the person who doesn't understand it as the cost to bring to someone is crazy. I had a friend with an Audi. His repair bills were more than his payments. He sold it. 5-year-old car.
My folks bought an 1986 Audi 500s, first new car they got. Bought two or three extended warranties, and used the living crap out of them. We had it for around a decade, and finally sold it when the cost to keep the hydraulic cylinder full was too much. I still remember the guy who bought it laying out the twenty-six hundred dollar bills.
 
Here's exactly what I want my next truck to have/ none of which can be had in a new model year "anything"
3 pedals (no not counting the E brake)
Wing windows
Dimmer switch on the FLOOR
Wiper switch by itself on the DASH
Cowl vents
And if it happens to have a carburetor I won't complain one bit.
I'll gladly take these features and leave the " big brother" computer control BS for the rest of you...
I won't need to spend a gazillion bucks keeping a scanner up e date to work on it
You can't tell me a computer control vehicle needs absolutely no work/ maintenance.
I have plenty of screwdrivers, SAE tools a couple each of timing lights and vacuum gauges that are all collecting dust.
I don't mind carrying a few spare parts one bit.
When I did power tour I didn't need any of them but they did come in handy for some of the others who were riding in the "pack" I found myself in..
 
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