1/4 mile ET guesses

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Walker434 said:
AND THE WINNER IS...... Sledger46. I just couldn't break into the 14s :banghead: The best run was 15.22 @ 86 MPH..
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You hooked better then I predicted and you were faster in the 1/8 then I predicted.

60 ft 2.053 2.08
1/8mi 9.609 9.73
1/4mi 15.22 15.28
MPH 86.87 87.00

Based off your 1/8 mile you should have run a 15.08. Did the engine power really fall off after 4500.?
 
1st and 2nd gear seemed to pull good all the way to 5500 but it really seems to die when it hits 3rd gear. That is why I tried to run up to 6000 in 2nd the one time but as others have mentioned may have started floating the valves.

Could running too rich make it a dog in 3rd? Thanks again for all of the help I am one of the younger members just trying to learn as I go. Sure gets in your blood though.
 
Walker434 said:
1st and 2nd gear seemed to pull good all the way to 5500 but it really seems to die when it hits 3rd gear. That is why I tried to run up to 6000 in 2nd the one time but as others have mentioned may have started floating the valves.

Could running too rich make it a dog in 3rd? Thanks again for all of the help I am one of the younger members just trying to learn as I go. Sure gets in your blood though.
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180/190 horsepower makes it a dog in third gear :smile:....just kidding...sort of.

Could be some valve float, but i'm wondering if there's some point bounce also? A good set of HD points may help, especially if there's slight wear in the shaft/bushings.

I found these.....if they truly fit a stock dizzy,

http://accel-ignition.com/ignition-...rs/high-performance-points-condensor-kit.html

http://accel-ignition.com/ignition-...d-rotors/racing-points-and-condensor-kit.html.

Just another thought...:smile:.
 
OldmanRick said:
180/190 horsepower makes it a dog in third gear :smile:....just kidding...sort of.

Could be some valve float, but i'm wondering if there's some point bounce also? A good set of HD points may help, especially if there's slight wear in the shaft/bushings.

I found these.....if they truly fit a stock dizzy,

http://accel-ignition.com/ignition-...rs/high-performance-points-condensor-kit.html

http://accel-ignition.com/ignition-...d-rotors/racing-points-and-condensor-kit.html.

Just another thought...:smile:.
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Yeah Rick I'm not sure what the horsepower is but it can't be much. I'm guessing I'm still the stock compression with a VERY mild cam so you might be pretty close.

It's funny you mention the points because my old man said the same thing on the phone. He always helped me with my hot rods in high school but now I live in a different state so he helps me over the phone. Those accel points might be worth a try I guess $55 is cheaper than completely converting to electronic ignition.
 
Walker434 said:
Yeah Rick I'm not sure what the horsepower is but it can't be much. I'm guessing I'm still the stock compression with a VERY mild cam so you might be pretty close.

It's funny you mention the points because my old man said the same thing on the phone. He always helped me with my hot rods in high school but now I live in a different state so he helps me over the phone. Those accel points might be worth a try I guess $55 is cheaper than completely converting to electronic ignition.
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I gotta tell ya, I almost choked when I saw the price myself :smile:. Last Accel or Mallory points I bought were $10 bucks or less.....then again that was 30+ yrs ago....lol.

I don't know if there's a shop near you with a distributor machine or not? That's really the best way of seeing what condition it's in and whether it's worth spending any real money on it. One bonus is, if it's good, they can determine the exact advance curve it has and redo it, if it looked necessary.

I've just been trying to think of some relatively easy things to try to get it to pick up.

Oh yea, have you tried running it without the air filter?
 
Put a MP electronic ignition with the orange box on it, drop the tire down to a 235/60-15 (26") and open up the headers. This should get you to 14.9s There is a good chance the timing chain and valve springs are shot if the motor has many miles on it. Next I would put a small cam with new springs and timing chain in it and I bet you get that car to run low 14's. This wont break the bank and will be more fun till you build that stroker. :burnout:​
 
Just to clarify when I thru those HP numbers out earlier, I wasn't disparaging your car. I love it....wish it was mine, seriously!

Since I had a few moments, I ran some numbers thru a calculator just for grins............Using 3300lbs with you in it and some gas in the tank, here's what came up,

15.22 et = 185 hp.
87.0 mph = 175 hp.

You have to remember, calc numbers usually translate close to perfect efficiency and your converter, most likely a off the shelf model, isn't. The other thing is that even though the earlier 318 2bbl's were "gross" rated at 230ish, they really netted around 150ish.

With all that said, i'll give you close to 200hp, and that ain't half bad for nothing more then stock compression, headers, a factory 4bbl carb, a intake with some port mismatch, and a stock to mild cam........Not bad at all in my opinion. :thumleft:
 
Since it seems to run fine and then falls off at the big end, i would suspect a fuel delivery issue. Weak fuel pump, clogged filter, kinked line, etc. Get a fuel pressure gauge and mount it out on the cowl where you can read it going down the track. With the 1/8 mile times you are running now , you could possibly get a 14.99 if you could get it to pull the full 1/4 without laying down. I bet someone has already put a mild cam in that motor. A stock 318 cam is usually pretty much done by 4500 rpm.
 
OldmanRick said:
I gotta tell ya, I almost choked when I saw the price myself :smile:. Last Accel or Mallory points I bought were $10 bucks or less.....then again that was 30+ yrs ago....lol.

I don't know if there's a shop near you with a distributor machine or not? That's really the best way of seeing what condition it's in and whether it's worth spending any real money on it. One bonus is, if it's good, they can determine the exact advance curve it has and redo it, if it looked necessary.

I've just been trying to think of some relatively easy things to try to get it to pick up.

Oh yea, have you tried running it without the air filter?
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I think I will go ahead and convert it to electronic ignition since I can reuse those parts on the stroker when I put it in. I did try running with no air filter on the run that sputtered at 6000 in 2nd.... wish I would have ran it again but the line was getting long so decided to quit while it was still in one peice.

Although it is not too fast yet This car has been a ton of fun and I don't have much money into it becuase I traded an old ramcharger for it
 
forphorty said:
Since it seems to run fine and then falls off at the big end, i would suspect a fuel delivery issue. Weak fuel pump, clogged filter, kinked line, etc. Get a fuel pressure gauge and mount it out on the cowl where you can read it going down the track. With the 1/8 mile times you are running now , you could possibly get a 14.99 if you could get it to pull the full 1/4 without laying down. I bet someone has already put a mild cam in that motor. A stock 318 cam is usually pretty much done by 4500 rpm.
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That is a good suggestion, I will start checking into my fuel system. Thanks again to everyone with advise.
 
If you are really going to the stroke monster, you might concider going ahead and taking the plunge for some new heads. Stock 318's are not known for their berathing ability and these could be swaped over to the new motor. Just my 2 cents.
 
Walker434 said:
1st and 2nd gear seemed to pull good all the way to 5500 but it really seems to die when it hits 3rd gear. That is why I tried to run up to 6000 in 2nd the one time but as others have mentioned may have started floating the valves.
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Part of what you are feeling is the over all loss of torque as you go through the gears. Lets just say your 318 puts out 250 ft-lbs of torque as an average from 2500 to 5500. Don't forget you also get multiplication from the torque converter that goes away as the RPM climbs.

HP is something you calculate from the torque and RPM measurement. Torque is what you feel pressing you in your seat. "Torque is what opens the twist off cap on your beer, pal"

1st gear: 250 x 2.45 x 3.91 = 2394.875
2nd gear: 250 x 1.45 x 3.91 = 1417.375
3rd gear: 250 x 1.0 x 3.91 = 977.5

Aerodynamics really don't come into play until 60-70 MPH, just about the time you shift into 3rd gear.

I think you are doing really well for the modifications you have done to the car. This might make you feel better: I have a 67 Dart with a 360/904/2.76 gear with M1 dual plane intake, Holley 750 Vac sec carb, cheap Summit Racing long tube headers and duals all the way to the back bumper. On the old worn out tires the 60 ft was a joke, but the best I could get was a 15.81 @ 86 MPH. With a stock 2BBL cam the power fell off sharply after 4500.

Round 2 I added 3.91 gears and a 3500 stall converter ( I found the original converter/flexplate was for a 318 which caused vibration, new converter and B&M flexplate fixed the problem.) Rear tires were new, 27" 255s. Result 15.21 @ 85 MPH. The deep gears and torque converter really showed the lack of power over 4500 RPM. All of the gains were from the first 60 ft.

You can swap ignitions and check for fuel related issues, but I don't think you will find they are holding you back. I wouldn't buy anything for the 318 you don't plan to move over to the stroker.

Comments on the Summit Racing electronic conversion kit. My car did idle and start easier with it installed, but I found out the "orange" box that came in the kit was retarding timing 10 degrees on the top end 3500+ RPM. I didn't find this out until later when I was trying to recurve the distributor. I would see all my 35 degrees in by 3000 and then it would drop to 25 degrees as the RPMs climbed past 3500 RPM. I bought a stock box from Autozone and the retard magically went away.
 
Thanks Sledger, everything you said above makes a LOT of sense. Thanks for the heads up on the orange box. Now I'll just save my money for the electronic conversion.
 
Good learning thread. I was going to guess 14.8 /88 ,89.0 traps.
 
It's funny a lot of people's guesses included a tail wind and on Saturday there was actually a strong head wind. I was very dissappointed to see the wind blowing the wrong direction.
 
youll get there bud. Keep going. I wanna see your progress. Keep that 318 going strong. i wish i could take my teeny bopper to the track one day.
 
Fix the timing that it's probably lacking in initial settings. That alone will clean up a bunch of the rich issue you are smelling. Another plus, the engine won't be pulling under a rich condition out of the gate.

I'd buy an MSD distributor over a MP unit. Easier to adjust stuff. The bushings/springs that come with it should be good for dialing in the initial timing setting and curve.

If it doesn't have a cam in it, then turning it more RPM isn't gonna help it. Move the shift points around. Try shifting it LOWER, might surprise you.

Laying down in high gear usually = poor fuel delivery
 
Walker434 said:
Thanks Sledger, everything you said above makes a LOT of sense. Thanks for the heads up on the orange box. Now I'll just save my money for the electronic conversion.
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You could be like me and make things really difficult by trying to fit in the big cap HEI conversion. I am having to slot my motor mounts and slot my transmission mount to move the engine forward 1/2" so the big HEI cap clears the firewall. The thing that sold me on it is it is self contained and you only have to connect a switched 12v source (single wire) to it. I will also have a tach plugged into it so technically 2 wires. When you see all the wiring for the ECU box, coil, distributor, and ballast resistor you will understand.

I also installed a 100 AMP, one wire alternator and a secondary fuse block that powers all my accessories. I didn't want to overload a 46 year old wiring harness.
 
crackedback said:
Fix the timing that it's probably lacking in initial settings. That alone will clean up a bunch of the rich issue you are smelling. Another plus, the engine won't be pulling under a rich condition out of the gate.

I'd buy an MSD distributor over a MP unit. Easier to adjust stuff. The bushings/springs that come with it should be good for dialing in the initial timing setting and curve.

If it doesn't have a cam in it, then turning it more RPM isn't gonna help it. Move the shift points around. Try shifting it LOWER, might surprise you.

Laying down in high gear usually = poor fuel delivery
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Cracked would you suggest an MSD distribtutor, coil and 6AL box? That is what I've been considering.
 
I like MSD stuff, it's just pretty expensive when buying new. The distributor is a yes.

You could do a cheaper conversion using some factory pieces. Grab a stock box/harness and wire it in using an MSD distributor. Got any junkyards close? That's where I'd look. You can also get a module from rockauto cheap ~$12.

High headwind probably killed some MPH on you.

Good luck with it.
 
crackedback said:
I like MSD stuff, it's just pretty expensive when buying new. The distributor is a yes.

You could do a cheaper conversion using some factory pieces. Grab a stock box/harness and wire it in using an MSD distributor. Got any junkyards close? That's where I'd look. You can also get a module from rockauto cheap ~$12.

High headwind probably killed some MPH on you.

Good luck with it.
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There is a pull apart right down the road from me. What model of vehicles will work?
 
I think that's not to bad a time for what you run. Just uncap the pipes, experiment with timing and jet it untill it slows.
If you get your 14, i would then start focusing on getting the larger motor together.
Mick
 
as long as it's got one of the boxes like at the top of this pic...

ecudia.jpg


Get the plug and box cut enough wire out. If a small block and not a lean burn, you could use the distributor and two wire plug (both sides) too. If taking everything, cut the wiring harness open and peel all the stuff out that you need.
 
Okay, I figured I would post this here since this thread already has my cars specs and performance numbers. I have recently purchased an MSD 6AL box, Blaster 2 coil, MSD Pro Billet Distributor and MSD plug wires. I will be installing all of this in a few weeks and was looking for some advice on wear to start with my timing. After reading the instructions I was thinking about starting my mechanical advance with the black 18* bushing and using the light silver and medium blue springs? Is this a good place to start with my set up? Any suggestions on where to try my total?

Also looking for suggestions on good spark plug brands and what I should set the gap at. As always thanks in advance for any help and recommendations.
 
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