1/4 mile times

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many many different opinions...
SO like i said , car does need quite a bit of tuning in..
First and formost is suspension. Now that regardless of anything i need to it anyway. Besides that i think a cam would be great but i cant afford to go cam...adjustable rockers..pistons...bearings..
Its a stock hp motor with alum closed chamberheads and they are about 10.5-1 comp
Other then that the big debate is getting the 60 ft times down to me meaning gears...maby converter. not sure. but with the car still pulling pretty hard at the end i am leaning to something like a 4.30 set.

ALot of it is also weight transfer as well.
rear is good spring and shock wise but needs the snubber and frame connectors and the front is the slant six set up which i would like to keep but my shocks are the 90/10's and when i took out my old blown out shocks and out them i got worse results.. before it had no problem lifting and now theres more restriction and its also running out of travel because i have tire clearence issues so i have the torsion bars jacked up...
So front and rear suspension need major adjusting. as well
 
nemesis said:
I think the stall he has in it is fine.

Its not a small block, its a 440.
Heaps of torque.
It should be jumping off the line,i dont think your tune
is right,750 cfm is abit small for a 440 but other than that
i say the motor needs some sorting/tune.
3.9's is plenty!

It should be 113-115 mph an into the 11's for sure with that
setup.

Tuning is everything.
Click to expand...

750 is not too small for a 440, i ran high 10s with my swapmeet 750dp, i tried an 850 & it slowed it down.
 
nemesis said:
I think the stall he has in it is fine.

Its not a small block, its a 440.
Heaps of torque.
It should be jumping off the line,i dont think your tune
is right,750 cfm is abit small for a 440 but other than that
i say the motor needs some sorting/tune.
3.9's is plenty!

It should be 113-115 mph an into the 11's for sure with that
setup.

Tuning is everything.
Click to expand...

A 440 with a 509 cam does not have "heaps" of torque down low.
 
I have a full body 1973 dodge dart with a 1973 cast crank 440. I am useing the stock bore pistons out of a factory 1970 440 six pack cuda. stock home ported 906 heads etc. I have 4.10 gears and M/T 275/60/15 street radials etc.

SO far with no tuneing i have ran a best of

60 ft 1.64
1/8 7.57
1/8 mph 90.80
1000 ft 9.90
1000 mph 103.0
1/4 11.85
1/4 mph 110.89
this same engine in my old 3500 pound 65 plymouth would run 105 in the 1000 ft.when i had my 65 my track would only race 1000 ft so that was my frist weekend running this engine in the 1/4. I did find out that my valve springs are worn out. My car did not want to rev past 6000 rpm and my 9 inch ati converter is way to loose for my combo.it was stallling around 5600-5800 rpm. sorry for getting off track. But you will never get a good et running 2.00 60 foot.

I was running a 3200 stall in my 65 with 4.30 gears and 30x9 slicks. I just bought a turbo action 10 inch 3800-4200 stal from jegs for 389 shiped to my door. I will sell you my 9-1/5 ati cheep and i have some used 4.56 richmond gears i will let go cheep.have you done a compression test on your engine? so i think you have more in your car just need more tunning. best of luck mopar65
 
hamesdart i saw your other post. you have a very nice looking dart 8)8)
here is a couple of picks of mine and my car is 100 percent street legal. best of luck getting your car going faster. mopar65

100_0520 (Large).jpg


100_0518 (Large).jpg
 
I have a few questions, was the cam ever ever degreed in? If the cam timing off that can kill what what little bottom end you have.

What was your total ignition ting set at?

What kinda of convertor is it? Is it used, is it a 11 or 10" you need to see what it does stall at.

Carb jetting ?

My opinion is all these should be looked at 1st. My opinion is your compression ratio is probably 9 to 1 now with aluminum cylinder heads for WIW.

Other than that i would opt for a convetor that will flash a real 4500rpm in case you ever step up.
 
I'll add that setting total timing with no regard to initial will cause all sorts of problems, especially with a 509.

My guess is that engine will need a minimum of 18* initial and as much as 24* to run and have decent response. What adv bushing do you have installed on the MSD billet. You need the biggest diameter one in the packet installed. You may even need to get a larger one to limit mech advance

Did I mention not enough converter... :-D

Right converter, hooking and tuned up, it should run 11.50's.
 
This car is so far from its potential its ridiculous.

CEASE throwing parts at it immediately.

Horsepower isn't your problem. BUT, you are giving up a ton of it by not having the timing and jetting tuned in. Further, if you've got no tach you don't have any idea where you're shifting compared to the powerband. You really need a shift light. Dialing shift point is worth huge ET.

Time the thing in as recommended in this thread. Go to the track with a shift light and dial the jets (keep going up by 2 until you lose mph). Do the same thing every pass, don't get caught up in the heat of the moment. Or just buy a wideband. Then dial the shift point. Then you can fiddle with the timing a little again.

Maybe I missed it, but what tire? Is it on a slick? If you don't have at least an ET Street, there's something to buy that will actually help.

2.0 60' time is terrible. If you get the car to hook, it will go a lot faster.

The front end is going to need a lot of help getting up with that heavy big block installed. I'd recommend Afcos or a similar real adjustable front shock.

Do you have a front sway bar? If so, it needs to go.

Measure your front travel. You need 5" or better.

Is the battery in the front? Relocate it or go to a lightweight unit.

How hot is the motor when you're running down the track. Hot oil is worth ET, but a hot intake is bad news.

Is it aligned? Are you going straight down the track or is it moving left and right?

AFTER you get all that figured out, for a converter I vote for Lenny at Ultimate Converter. Loads less than 2K.
 
ok.
Obviously going to catch a good tach/shift light,
cam I did not install, another racer did.
Timing and jetting is also next on the to do list.
Tires are mt street's and hook up fine still even at 40 psi...
Most light weight parts in front ... heads..no a/c,hearer no nothing in front, radio and everything you can imagine is gone.
Car wasnt in allignment perfectly so i can imagine that hurt a little as well but we did it at 1 in the morning before we left.
 
No offence, but it sounds like a maltitude of issues & mis-matched parts, with the .509, it'll never have much grunt down low with that junky converter, you also need to make sure the timing is dialed in (very important with that cam), i'd set it up for 20* int. & 36* total, all in at 22-2400 RPM. I'm sure the car hooks fine with the power/torque its looseing. Just trying to help.
 
Well so far... lets see.
Timing/tuning carb in.
Suspension, weight transfer,
Gears...undecided on somewere between 4.11-4.56.
Converter 3500 or so.
Overall The car for me is a street strip deal.
I want to hit high 11's like 11.70-12.30 or so anything around there would be great. I dont want to go so far that i get into the snowball effect were i have to buy more and more and more if possible.. but i know how it goes.
And I am Planning in the future to go maby a little bigger around 530-545 solid cam and new pistons this winter as well so any parts like gears and converter would need to work ok with the plan of a little larger cam.
So what do you guys think
 
I had a 2000 stall in my challenger, with the .509 cam... it felt like a torque beast... Ran similar times to what you're running in the dart, but had six pack, full weight, and exhaust manifolds.
 
You need to know what the initial and total timing numbers/current settings.

If you're doing it using the total method, you're likely leaving a bunch on the table down low.
 
More cam yes but... that would be a diff combo all toghter, so for what you have, for sure at least a 4.30 or 4.56 gear, larger carb will help the top, but the 60' is the main issue. The gears will help with the convertor.

On a big block with a lot of torque the convertor should flas quicker, my bet is you should be in the 3500-3800 stall range

So suspension/gears and make sure it is tuned right. That baby should leap off the line with a 440 in her. You should be able to pull off a 1.7-8x 60'

PS what model 750 holley carb are you running? maybe lean, weak transistion circuit et. I think a 750 is a little small, but if anything that should help the 60' if it is not to lean or way to fat etc.

Also what is the initial base time and the total timing you are running, and at what rpm is it all in?
 
there is nothing wrong with your motor, it's just your head isn't screwed on correctly.tune the damn thing first before you complain about it not running fast enough. you have enough motor to run in the low 12's and with the right gear and convertor low 11's just as floatman suggested. the .509" cam needs them to operate at it's intended rpm range.
 
ok. Bob
Well I dont know if you read my 1st post which was saying that after the car was out back together i Ran out of time and went straight to the track without tuning, and was asking the forum to analize my 1/4 times (which is what my post says) and give opinions on how to get the car to launch harder. So please dont come onto any of my post with an agressive attitude because its not needed on the forum for anyone,
As for everybody else...thanks for the melting pot of ideas and tips as well.
Positive feedback and ideas are what brings us together on the site.
 
jmo make sure the koni's aren't binding the rear end=[long enough]

Get the timing as high as it'll start with and find a way to limit the total advance to only give the 30*-35* that you'll probably end up running.
something like 24*@ idle and 30*-35* all in by 2200rpm w/ auto can be earlier but consideration needs to be taken with the gearing and stall, cause too much and clack! detonation.
Really the mph will tell you by trial and error what total advance it likes.

Frame connects!

blue Ice packs on intake/carb will help a lil but thats squeezing.

A 4.10 would be fitting for that cam, and depending on how tall a tire you have maybe more.

Air up the front tires to max psi and if you have 4 corner circle track scales you can adjust the torsion bars to load the rear differently for take off, of corse the weight will transfer once you leave, but it reall y helps.

oh and by trial & error find out how much heat you need in the tires like when you're burning out.
just off the top of my head, I probably should have read he whole thread.
 
Hamesdart -- i agree with some of the posts.

i would double check your tuning 1st . make sure you have 15-18 initial and 34-36 total timing .

look down the carb while your buddy floors the gas pedal-make sure your blades are opening fully. (with the car off of course...) , u never know your cable might have moved.

make sure you have at least the stock jet sizes in the car - then try 4 or 5 sizes bigger .

i agree on the converter - thats a HUGE part of the combo -- Call PTC or TCT, great parts and great prices. See what they recommend - id guess around 3000-3500 stall .

your car as it is should easily go 12.00 .

i had a 9.5:1 ,440 / 902 stock iron heads /850 holley/ 509 cam/ 4:10 gear /2800 converter , in a E body . it went 12.20's and 7.6 in the 1/8th

I would make sure your tuning is right before throwing any $ at it just yet.
 
Like 496 mentioned and I forgot too, make sure that even with full cable opening that you have the secondarys all the way open, if not adjust the sec blades by bending the secondary tab.
 
Well heres what I have so far...
Suspension,Timing,Carb/fuel pressure.
Gears go a 4.11 or a 4.30
Converter 3000-3500
Planning for new pistons and bigger cam in near future which wont be too much bigger. Maby 545 solid or hydrolic not sure yet.
Also I have the 741 case in my 8-3/4 And i think im switching to either a 489 or 742 from a friend just to go a little stronger. Watcha think?
Im getting new gears anyway so i wanna do it with a stronger center section if i am going to go through it and replace parts... Also will the posi unit from mine go into either of the others????
I know the cars good for 12's as is but the cam,gears,converter is something i wanted to change already anyways for a while now but now its more of a necessety. Watcha guys think????
 
As suggested, I wouldn't spend another dime on parts unless it's tuning stuff, (jets, plugs, adv bushing/springs) until you get the current combo sorted out.

There are people here that have been WAY faster than your car is capable of running, tuned cars with similar packages. Some have given you very helpful advice, I hope you take it positively and run with it.

Don't take Bob's comment the wrong way, you need to get the tune up right before you can figure out if anything honestly needs to be changed. Right now your car is a dog off the line if it won't even turn the tire. My guess is that is rooted in the ignition, cam/converter combo.

Changing the case is a waste of money right now.

Until you answer the timing split it was running at the track and the current timing if it's been changed, you're chasing your tail.

Good luck with it and have fun.
 
Wow guys want help we stomp him some sorry if we are all to hard for the most part.

We just want what is best for you big guy!

On gearing figure out what your redline is, determine peak torque/HP overlap were it is stil lpulling hard ( point like shifting from 1-2 etc). Then figure this RPM minus maybe 500 for your trap RPM in the 1/4.

I think there is a tool someone can post to make it easy with tires, gears and then plug in that RPM.

But as many said, get it tuned real good carb & ignition. Right there you should get at least .3.-.5 faster in the 1/4. i think a 750 for a big block is a bit small, but all you will need a better convertor and gearing, I say convertor 1st for the better 60 and you need to tell the folks you get it from what gearing you will end up with.

As others said, it is about messing parts, balance etc. If you have the $$s get the convertor and gears in as a package, tune the engine very well and then see how she runs. After al lthat you should get close to mid low 12s easy unless that cam is way late...

good luck, keep us posted on your success buddy!:)
 
no my feelings arnt getting hurt here, im just not interested in non productive post i have to read.
And back to the car.
I am goign to do the suspension,timing and carb tuning anyway, Obvious no money involved. Then if it still seems like it needs more ill get a converter,
When and if i get gears im getting a case as well not for speed.... or anything other then Its the weekest of the two that is hard to find gears for that i was planning on replacing anyway, so im not going to buy gears then later change the case and buy more or the same gears twice.... going to kill as many birds with 1 stone as i can, i understand the concept that i have potenial for more in the car. whether its high 11's low 12's and everything inbetween, but while getting the 1/4 times down im also re-storing/beefing up parts for reliability, Thats were the case is coming from.
 
Lots of good help here -


once you get everything checked out, try and get to a test-n-tune day at the track - those can be a lot of fun - or not......ive had it both ways 8)


as mentioned--your shift points will make a difference too . that combo , i wouldnt go past 6000 with it on the 1-2 and 2-3 shift . try making a pass and shift at 6k , then let the car sit 20-30 min and make a run and shift at 5500.

oh and , i would definately get a 742 or 489 center at least IF you can .
 
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