1964 Dart Grüne Hölle Road Course/Track Day/AutoX Project

[RustyRatRod]

Please tell me the daughter has an interest and is helping. She's absolutely precious. I hope you don't mind if I steal and save some of your transmission swap pictures to my laptop for reference.

....and I wouldda thought the 3.35 first gear wouldda been a benefit. What didn't you like about it?

 

[slant six]

@RustyRatRod
Don't know if she has an interest.... maybe.. she's a kid, so their interests change as they develop.

She Likes Riding in the old cars and trucks.
Helping... for now is usually cleaning, vacuuming, washing. Sometimes holding lugnuts or getting tools. She's too young to sit and learn yet, on this stuff. She likes to play on her swing or in the dirt throwing rocks and that's fine too.

Yes, please use the pictures, I figured out what to do from my buddies... I just documented it all better than they did, so yes please use this information on your build.

That Ratio for a stock Slant 6 is fine espically if your running 3.23 or less numerically out in the rear axle. For my liking I wanted more of a road race transmission so the RPM drops on the upshifts and the Downshift Blips are less. It's quite noticeable on the AutoX... Usually just running around in 2nd, with the (rare) occasional shift to 1 or 3.

 

[slant six]

5/2/21:

I Got the Tailpipe Built and Finish welded, so Now the exhaust is mostly Done... Still have to locate / Drill / Weld The bung for the O2 Sensor, Add / Weld on One more header collector Tab, and Fit the Burns Muffler when It arrives.. For Now I just have a piece of aluminized Tail pipe in place of the muffler.

Pictures of the Progress:
Tailpipe complete with exhaust tip / turndown:

Hopefully when everything is installed It won't Bang against Frame or Gas Tank..

Greg

 

[slant six]

5/24/21:

Here are the cam Specs:

Oregon Cams Regrind:
Intake Grind# 1628: 0.483" Lift, 244° @ 0.050"
Exhaust Grind# 1920: 0.473" Lift, 236° @ 0.050"

105° Lobe Separation Angle, 102°℄

_____________________________________________

I got some more Work done.

Got the Bell housing / block Indicted and within 0.005" Runout. After that, I got the Flywheel clutch / PP installed / aligned. Put the starter on and cranked the engine with spark plugs removed to prime / build oil Pressure ~ 40-50 Psi on the cranking the starter.

Got the New trans installed, but found that it's a skosh different dimensionally than the Ford V-6 T5 that I previous had. Especially since this trans has the mechanical Speedo output and the trans mount area is about 1/2" further forward. So I need to remove it and Create more space on the cross member area..
This one will hit the underside of the car. So Back to cutting, grinding, Welding later this week.


Greg

 

[slant six]

5/25/21:

The Burns Stainless Muffler Arrived. It's 3.5 Pounds and about 17" Long.

Hope to get it installed soon and hear what it sounds like.

Here are some shots of the ford Motorsport (Z Box) T5 hitting the Crossmember - I made it last year so it would clear the Ford 3.8/V6 T5 and this T5 is just a bit girthier in some areas..

As far up as it will go - about 1/2" from getting the holes to line up.

Here is what my clearance notches looked like for the V6 T5 Trans:

Some material cut away.. Ready for welding:

Welded up:

Hope to do another test fit this week and if all's well, slam the exhaust and intake on and fire it up.

Greg

 

[slant six]

6/5/21:

Well I gotta bunch of stuff done since the last update.

Engine is in and all plumbed, wired.. It runs and drives - clutch is adjusted and feels good; Custom exhaust routing allows for breeze easy clutch adjustments.

I really cannot believe that there are no Leaks at the front or rear of the oil pan. I found when I went to Bolt the thing down that it was warped quite a bit around the Cast Aluminum Rear Main seal Retainer and at the Front Near the bottom of the timing cover. I put a lot of sealer in those locations on the outside of the rubber oil pan gaskets and let them set up for 2-3 weeks. I did have a valve cover leak that was easily fixed with a new gasket and a quick straightening of the bolt holes with hammer and piece of wood.

Exhaust is loud... The Burns Stainless 2 Stage Quiet muffler is still pushing the loudness limit for the street.- Might have to add a resonator.

Found that on this Cam which is an Oregon Cams Regrind that there is no Fuel Pump eccentric.. Which Made firing it off for the first time a 6 hour affair as I had planned on just using a stock mechanical fuel pump.. I never thought to check the cam for a functioning eccentric... it should just be there...but it was not.
After figuring out that the 2 Mechanical fuel pumps were good but the eccentric was just a boring on center circle, I had to get and Mount an electric Pusher Pump with all the associated switches, relay wiring, etc.

I got that all done. After Driving the Thing 100 or so miles it's time to lash the valves and rejet the carb. It is very rich on the primary circuit and a touch lean on the secondaries.

Also Put Hatted Rotors on the Rear. Does not save much Weight - Maybe 1.5# per rotor.. At least it's unsprung and rotating mass.

Pictorial:
"Lighter Rotors"

Stock Chinese Rotors - Non Hatted @ 11#

Plumbed, Wired, Ready to go..

Another Item of interest is that stock with a 6 cylinder from the factory this generation of car does not have a throttle cable; they have a sort of convoluted twisty linkage system from the gas pedal to the carb.

I wanted to keep the stock pedal, but also use a cable for the future carbs / throttle bodies.. Some folks like to find the 1964-66 273 V8 Factory cable setup (expensive and Hard to find)... I just used a 72-80 D series truck Pedal pivot with a lokar cable... So I can keep the stock pedal and it works great.

Future Plans include a seat upgrade:
Stock Factory Buckets: Cool for restoration and heavy:

This behemoth weighs in at:

56#

Until I can get some Proper Race seats these 3rd Hand Mazda Seats will do:
I will have to make some bracketery for them, and Had done some lightening, removing brackets, air bags , etc.

They come in at probably not a svelte, but lighter...41#

Greg

 

[slant six]

6/11/21:

Got a few more Small things done.

Ordered some more rod / jet combinations for the carb.
- I still want to try to get a better / smoother transition between the lean and power settings on the primary metering. It's a Bit Notchy now.. Some of the old OE Carter Rods had 3 steps on them to help with this issue... but the aftermarket edelbrock ones just have 2 steps.
- Note to self: Put MPEFI on it and get it tuned better... Maybe next winter / summer.
I put a Jones Exhaust Resonator in the tailpipe... this was a major win for me as the burns 2 stage quiet muffler was really too loud for the street and I would surmise probably over the 98dB sound level for SCCA and other decibel monitored track events.

This 14" x 4" Resonator placed in the tailpipe attenuated the "bag of angry wasps" sound that was annoyingly prominent around 3K RPM with only the Burns Muffler.

I also swapped from 175#/Inch Springs to 200#/Inch Springs. To help when the car is loaded with passengers and fuel / Tools etc on road trips.

Today I will do a few more maintenance Items:
- A good once over on the valve train.
- Setting the Hot Lash and Checking to see if the Roller Tip Rockers are doing okay without a spray bar in the Valve cover..
- If they are not, then they will be swapped to Stock Rocker Arms.

Planning a Nice Car show trip on Sunday to Ohio.

Greg

 

[RustyRatRod]

@RustyRatRod
Don't know if she has an interest.... maybe.. she's a kid, so their interests change as they develop.

She Likes Riding in the old cars and trucks.
Helping... for now is usually cleaning, vacuuming, washing. Sometimes holding lugnuts or getting tools. She's too young to sit and learn yet, on this stuff. She likes to play on her swing or in the dirt throwing rocks and that's fine too.

Yes, please use the pictures, I figured out what to do from my buddies... I just documented it all better than they did, so yes please use this information on your build.

That Ratio for a stock Slant 6 is fine espically if your running 3.23 or less numerically out in the rear axle. For my liking I wanted more of a road race transmission so the RPM drops on the upshifts and the Downshift Blips are less. It's quite noticeable on the AutoX... Usually just running around in 2nd, with the (rare) occasional shift to 1 or 3.

That's encouraging, because I am going to use the 300 gear that's already in my Ford 9". Budget, you know. lol

.....and all that is interest. If she's doing anything she's interested. I think that's awesome. Cherish that. I never had that with my son. I think he popped out wanting to play video games all the time.

 

[RustyRatRod]

What size exhaust pipe? Primary and secondary? I have the same headers to install later on.

 

[slant six]

What size exhaust pipe? Primary and secondary? I have the same headers to install later on.

I believe 2" Primary and 2 1/2" after the Y Merge... I will check for sure later today.

 

[slant six]

6/14/21:

Went on a bit of a trip this weekend to Chardon Ohio.. There was a MoPar Car show there and we also Made it a point to stop by Nelson Ledges on the way back.

Car was a blast to drive and did well - Got Caught in the rain on the way there and back, but while in Ohio it was sunny and dry pretty much the entire time.

- Car does not get great fuel mileage - maybe more carb tuning or double check the distributor timing.

- At Nelson Ledges it was a test n tune day and we got to stop in and spectate.

At the Show:

This car was interesting to me.

 

[slant six]

6/14/21 continued:

Of course you can't go to a well stocked MoPar show with out a Christine Movie Car there..

Hisss..

Cool Stuff at Nelson Ledges too,

(this one's a Movie, Clicky to watch)

Greg

 

[slant six]

6/17/21:

I got the secondary Bog sorted on the edelbrock performer 500. 2 solutions available for this problem in my research...

1. Modify / remove the small supply tube on the secondary venturi.. some models of carter / edelbrock do not have this tube on the secondary venturis.. mine did.
I wanted to avoid this mod as its not easily reversible.

2. Drill the counterweight in the secondary air door. I did this and it's spot on.

Can be reversed by filling the hole with leas/ nits/ bolts or welding. The AVS and thermoquads have infintetly adjustable secondary doors with no drilling.

Bog is gone....ready for road trip and dragstrip blasts.

Greg

 

[slant six]

6/21/21:

Had a Great Weekend Racing at the Ron Hamby Memorial, seeing and dining out with friends etc.

Also got to do a lot of Grüne Hölle mounting Driving.. Found some new routes from Harrisonburg / Massanutten Area up through eastern WV and Western MD. Also did quite a bit of mountain driving and the car ate it up! Might have some more carb / Dist. Tuning to do.

Success.

It all went right this go round. I must confess I did put wheels on some interstates.. not for long, as the majority of miles were on Mountain US and State Routes in WV, VA, SC, MD, And PA.

Started out about 700 miles on the GPS - So ~1000 Miles for the weekend.

Daybreak on WV 20 in Webster Springs WV..

The Blue Hour Along WV 20:

More WV 20:

After a Quick Interstate Jaunt..

On WV/VA 311 After Crows VA:

I hope to be able to tackle this one a bit faster that 15...

Slant 6 Racing With Friends:

Rick Swept the weekend! / Lou was runner up Sunday! - Congrats!

On the Way Home: - US Route 33 through VA and WV is sure a gem above the Shenandoah Valley Heading West!

 

[slant six]

6/21/21 Continued:

First Time I have been on WV 33 and I am sure I will be back for more.

On 219 Near Deep Creek / Oakland / McHenry MD..

Near the 219 / US 40 Junction in Maryland - You can See I 68 in the upper Right.

Fuel Stop on US 40 - heading home

US 40 in the PA highlands was quite busy on a sunny Sunday afternoon.

PA Route 711 Above Connellsville:

I had tons of fun exploring the new routes!


Greg

 

[slant six]

6/25/21:

After coming home from the trip last week I wanted to Investigate the timing Curve. As I just got the engine fired and running say 3 or so weeks ago, I wanted to fiddle with Valve lash, Carb tuning and the like, which i did. After a few weeks of driving and fiddling with those settings I turned my attention to the timing. I was limited by the Stock slant 6 distributors' mechanical adjustment from ma MoPar, and with no proper parts to convert to a claw style hold down from a newer lean burn or 1980's up Slant 6 Distributor I had to do some grinding and clearancing / slotting on the stock hold down plate.
Before My Trip last week I was limited to 10° initial advance on the Distributor the limit was caused by the adjustment plate hitting the block as well as the arced slots - the hold down bolt(s) was hitting the end of the arc on the adjustment plate. I modded that and now was able to put a seemingly ridiculous amount of initial advance into the curve.
I decided on 14° initial and 32° Total. I also experimented with the Ported advance instead of the non ported vacuum on the carb. I was running the full vacuum advance signal to the distributor before and that caused a bog / flat spot as the vacuum went away with more throttle angle. .... So I tried the ported vacuum signal to the advance can and it likes that better. Now it sure feels better below 2000 RPM.

I might try another lighter advance spring in the mechanism sometime. I found that I can run the car on 87 octane under heavy load with no pinging at all. But it does diesel at times upon shutdown.

Greg

 

[slant six]

7/19/21: More Güne Hölle fun in the summer.

Last week, I took the car to Carlisle - Met with some friends, did some Mountain Road driving, Did the Carlisle Real Street Shootout Friday nite, then Went to the Central PA Region of the SCCA for a Proper AutoX at Midstate Airport in Phillipsburg Pa.. It's essentially a nice wide 2 runway airstrip with plenty of taxi areas in the middle of a central PA Lush Forest.

Some Pictures:
While staying overnite at my friend's house I had access to corner scales... So Lets do some science and data..

Started out with Just above 3000# without Driver and Gear - 3/4 Tank Gas.

Made Adjustments to bars and rear coilovers.. Was able to get pretty close to 50-50 F/R but L/R was Right Heavy.

Final after Adjustments with Driver and Gear:

At Carlisle there were some like minded slant 6 handling fans... This is Chris' '70 Duster..

Some other odd, instersting Mopars..
Aussie Valiant Ambulance:

And a pair of Modded - '62 Valiants:

The AutoX at Carlisle was not terribly interesting, but it was fun.
I have some oversteer to now work on ... the Car ran well, except idling in the hot - I need to change out the mechanical 4 blade fan for some electric units.

 

[slant six]

7/19/21 Continued:

Then Onto the SCCA AutoX at the airport on Sunday - about a 2 hour drive in the morning over the mountains... was a blast. Got everything in before the torrential downpours.

Found a long lost Twin for sale on the way home... whoodathink it..?

Also Installed Some New Front Shocks Yesterday:

Onto the PVGP Countryside Tour Tomorrow!

Greg

 

[Red Stripe]

Awesome build! Just has a great look and I Love that the slant is being autocrossed. I'm hoping to get mine out soon.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Greg, the information you're providing here is priceless. I cannot thank you enough. So tell me.....i'm not good on all those dots and dashes...lol....how do you pronounce the car's name and what does it mean?

 

[slant six]

Awesome build! Just has a great look and I Love that the slant is being autocrossed. I'm hoping to get mine out soon.

Thanks for the kind words. I do enjoy what I build.
Good luck with your project!

 

[slant six]

Greg, the information you're providing here is priceless. I cannot thank you enough. So tell me.....i'm not good on all those dots and dashes...lol....how do you pronounce the car's name and what does it mean?

I am glad you can get some use of it Rusty, Hopefully you find it fun and informative.

Here is some more information:
I some times name my projects..
The name for this one has a multi-faceted implication...
First the car is green, and it was in pretty bad shape when I started working on it ... bad as in no guts, drove/stopped like a 1960's American car, Needed rust repair and general TLC.

Also the Name is homage to arguably the most difficult road courses in the world - the 12.9 mile long Nordschliffe - AKA the Nürburgring in Germany. The track winds seemingly endlessly through the Eifel Mountains in Western Germany. If you have ever wanted the rush of driving your car legally at the limit on possibly the most exciting and punishing lap, I suggest buying a few laps and participating in the Touristenfahrten. Essentially the 'Ring is a public toll road as well as a world renown racetrack. Sir Jackie Steward named it the Green Hell. Grüne Hölle means Green Hell in German.

those dots are umlats and in German they change the sound or pronunciation of the vowels.

How to pronounce Grüne Hölle:

Greg

 

[slant six]

7/21/21 Data:
Alignment:
Caster +5.5°
Camber -0.75° ( I have the Thick Washers and Proper Grade 8 Bolts / Nuts - Will be installing them before Next event for -2.75°)
Toe 1/8" Toe In
1.03" Torsion Bars
1.125" Front Sway bar - Not adjustable - (Where can I source Adjustable Links for it?)
12" Long 200 In/# Coilovers rear on Reilly motorsports 4 Link Setup.

Full Frame connectors Added, Torque Boxes Added
Corner Weights With 3/4 Tank Fuel, Driver in car and Driver Gear:

3226#

LF 711 RF 901


LR 697 RR 917

 

[slant six]

7/21/21:

Had a pretty Epic Day yesterday - Ran about 150 Miles of Local Country and Mountain Roads with Grüne Hölle on the PVGP Countryside Tour. The car was solid, quick, nimble and stuck to the corners like glue. - much better than doing this event in my '69 Dart

After the tour was Over there was a PVGP Car Cruise the next county over at the Waterfront (site of the 1892 Homestead Steelworks Strike)
Was able to get some glamour shots of the car in front of the stacks during the "golden hour" which was even a bit more filtered than usual due to the smoke from the wildfires..


Some Pics from the tour:

Rest of the day went fine without a problem. and Made it to the farm for lunch.

glamour shots in homestead:

Was able to share the car cruise fun with kid in tow....

Greg

 

[slant six]

8/15/21:

Installed some world famous Andy F / AR Eng. 2⁰ camber washers tonite.

So total Camber should now be at -2.75⁰
Was trying to get rid of a touch of understeer. We'll see how it turns out.

Signed up for local AutoX 5 miles from the house.

Greg