1968 Plymouth Valiant First Gen HEMI

[Mike P 52]

I found an intake……small world, but the guy I bought it from is the same one I got a 392 oil pan from last fall. He had a Wieand WC2QE which was the one produced before Holley bought out Weiand. He was more than fair on the price so we made a deal on it. As I figured, it’s the lowest of the 3 intakes.

https://flic.kr/p/2pVgXDv]

DC1[/url] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/153889607@N08/]M Patterson[/url], on Flickr



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DC2[/url] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/153889607@N08/]M Patterson[/url], on Flickr


I had originally thought about running the pair 550 AFBs I have, but I had shelved them in favor of the pair of 650 AFBs because of how much better the old 57 ran with the bigger carbs. This 354 is built pretty close in specs to the one in the 57 so I ordered a second 650 AVS2 to go with one I already have.

Building fuel lines and linkage was pretty straight forward.


https://flic.kr/p/2pWe3VW]

intake carbs[/url] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/153889607@N08/]M Patterson[/url], on Flickr



That left starting on the air cleaner. Modifying the base got it reasonably low, and for now this is the way it sits. I’m going to have to wait to finalize it until we get the engine in the car and a hood back on (I may run into wiper motor interference with it as far back as it is). I can possibly go 1 to 1½” lower by changing out the top and dropping the base a bit more but that remains to be seen.



https://flic.kr/p/2pWgbq4]

DQ AC[/url] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/153889607@N08/]M Patterson[/url], on Flickr



The big project for today was to get the mock-up motor and trans out of the car and get the K member out. The next few day will probably involve final welding the mounts and grinding the mounts, cleaning and painting it to get it ready to go in the green car.



https://flic.kr/p/2pWqiuY]

K Member[/url] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/153889607@N08/]M Patterson[/url], on Flickr

 

[Mike P 52]

I got the K member cleaned and painted last week, so that’s ready for next weekend.



https://flic.kr/p/2pWYbWA]

Hemi K member[/url] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/153889607@N08/]M Patterson[/url], on Flickr





Yesterday my grandson and I actually started on the Green Valiant. Turned into a long day but by the end of it we had an empty engine bay.





https://flic.kr/p/2pXTgpy]

EB[/url] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/153889607@N08/]M Patterson[/url], on Flickr





And the 508 and torqueflite sitting on the engine cart.





https://flic.kr/p/2pXTgaq]

508[/url] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/153889607@N08/]M Patterson[/url], on Flickr





As expected fighting the headers to get the engine out was the biggest issue and a giant PIA. Fortunately, the HEMI swap should be a lot easier. Having already done the mock-up will save a bunch of time when we start putting the car back together. I’m sure glad we won’t have to fight those headers when we put the car back together…….so is my Grandson LOL.





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A body BB[/url] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/153889607@N08/]M Patterson[/url], on Flickr





With the car up in the air I was able to get the casting number off the carrier and order a set of gears. I ordered 4.30s which with the overdrive will have an effective ratio of 2.97. I’ll probably spend the rest of the week cleaning and sorting parts so I can put the parts car and parts up for sale in the next couple of weeks.







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[Mike P 52]

We got the K members changed over. The BB K member now resides in the red car so that’s back to being a roller now and is about ready to be rolled out of the shop and put up for sale.


https://flic.kr/p/2q1zR9k]

z RC2[/url] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/153889607@N08/]M Patterson[/url], on Flickr


One of the main reasons I bought the Green car was that the suspension work had already been done and it would be one less thing I would need to work over. I really figured that with the stroker BB in the engine bay that the torsion bars would have been changed over for heavier ones……nope. When we got the engine out and I could get in there to measure the torsion bars it turns out they were 6 Cyl bars. I decided on a new pair of PST “103” bars and while I was at it also added one of their 20:1 ratio steering boxes to the cart (the steering box in the green car had a little slop in it, but plenty of adjustment. Just for peace of mind I wanted a new one because if there did turn out to be issues with the box it would be a real job to change out once the HEMI was installed. With the new parts in hand the modified K member was installed in the green car.


https://flic.kr/p/2q1zRJt]

Z GC[/url] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/153889607@N08/]M Patterson[/url], on Flickr



While I was waiting on the parts to come in, I started removing some of the stuff that I won’t be using on the green car and will sell along with the red body. When they wired the car they had installed the wiring for a Terminator EFI system…..I don’t know if they actually tried the unit or not but I won’t be using it, so out that came. I’m also going to remount the battery back under the hood so the cables for the trunk mounted battery also came out.


The hood that was on the green car is also going with the red car so we changed that over along with changing out the deck lids…..(saves me from having to fill the for the power switch that they had on the car).


https://flic.kr/p/2q1B4Ex]

z RC[/url] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/153889607@N08/]M Patterson[/url], on Flickr


With the holiday coming up it looks like a short week, but down times a good thing.

 

[75slant6]

We got the K members changed over. The BB K member now resides in the red car so that’s back to being a roller now and is about ready to be rolled out of the shop and put up for sale.


]View attachment 1716270348z RC2[/url] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/153889607@N08/]M Patterson[/url], on Flickr


One of the main reasons I bought the Green car was that the suspension work had already been done and it would be one less thing I would need to work over. I really figured that with the stroker BB in the engine bay that the torsion bars would have been changed over for heavier ones……nope. When we got the engine out and I could get in there to measure the torsion bars it turns out they were 6 Cyl bars. I decided on a new pair of PST “103” bars and while I was at it also added one of their 20:1 ratio steering boxes to the cart (the steering box in the green car had a little slop in it, but plenty of adjustment. Just for peace of mind I wanted a new one because if there did turn out to be issues with the box it would be a real job to change out once the HEMI was installed. With the new parts in hand the modified K member was installed in the green car.


]View attachment 1716270349Z GC[/url] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/153889607@N08/]M Patterson[/url], on Flickr



While I was waiting on the parts to come in, I started removing some of the stuff that I won’t be using on the green car and will sell along with the red body. When they wired the car they had installed the wiring for a Terminator EFI system…..I don’t know if they actually tried the unit or not but I won’t be using it, so out that came. I’m also going to remount the battery back under the hood so the cables for the trunk mounted battery also came out.


The hood that was on the green car is also going with the red car so we changed that over along with changing out the deck lids…..(saves me from having to fill the for the power switch that they had on the car).


]View attachment 1716270350z RC[/url] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/153889607@N08/]M Patterson[/url], on Flickr


With the holiday coming up it looks like a short week, but down times a good thing.

Little late now, but I personally would’ve gone with even bigger torsion bars like 1.08 or even 1.12’s. I had 1.03’s in my Duster and it rode great, but that was with a small block with an aluminum intake. The 1.03’s will certainly work for you, bigger would’ve just handled the added weight a little better

 

[Mike P 52]

Even late I appreciate the input. This is an odd ball swap so some things (like the torsion bars) are a best guess situation at this point……basically I won’t really know how it does till I can get some drive time on it. It is nice to know I can go with heavier bars if I feel the need (something that was in the back of my mind when I ordered the 1.03s). Kind of like a sway bar (which the car doesn’t have), and shock changes, I’m holding off on that till it’s drivable.

 

[Mike P 52]

I’ve been getting the parts car and pieces ready to list for sale and finally got everything together (it’s listed on this site under Mopars for sale).


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Z R34[/url] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/153889607@N08/]M Patterson[/url], on Flickr


We still got a little done on the Green car. When I test drove the car before I bought it, the rear end howled like a banshee. The rear end had 4.10s in it, which I knew I was going to change out for a set of 4.30s anyway so that was no big deal. I had already ordered the gears when I determined it was a 489 housing.


Everything I’ve looked at on the Green car had been very well done with quality parts. Tearing the rear end apart was really no different; new brake drums, aftermarket axles, new Green bearings. When we got the carrier out it also had new bearings and had had what appeared to be a new ring and pinion but whoever set it up either didn’t know how to set it up or didn’t care and had ruined a new set of gears. Fortunately, the case and sure grip were still good. Honestly I don’t have the patience to set up rear ends, and I don’t think I could stand long enough to do it anyway so I sent it out to a guy I trust to do them. It came back yesterday and is ready to go back in next weekend.


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489 430[/url] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/153889607@N08/]M Patterson[/url], on Flickr

 

[Mike P 52]

The 4.30s made it into the rear end housing a couple weekends ago and the rear end was buttoned back up. So progress I guess.

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Z 4.30[/url] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/153889607@N08/]M Patterson[/url], on Flickr

And then there was the ashtray. Both Valiants I bought had the ashtrays removed and gauges stuffed in the hole. Fortunately the dash bracket was still in the parts car and rummaging around in the truck I found the ashtray. Unfortunately the 4 ball bearings and bracket they ride in was missing. I’d already determined I will probably never use the dash ashtray but if it’s not there it leaves a hole that the new center AC vent won’t quite cove and I know it would bug the dickens out of me. So I started looking for a complete astray/brackets assembly. That’s when I found out they are one year only for Valiants and Barracudas, are usually missing the bearings and slider bracket and are usually pretty pricey if you can find a complete assembly.

After some thinking I figured that the ashtray will only need to slide into the dash once. That being the case I picked up an assortment of bearings off Amazon and used 4 (9MM) bearings and tack welded them to the ashtray bracket. I ended up welding 2 in the wrong place and had to relocate them (and forgot to take a picture before I installed the bracket).

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Z AT2[/url] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/153889607@N08/]M Patterson[/url], on Flickr

At least it holds the ashtray in the correct position and fills the hole.

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Z A[/url] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/153889607@N08/]M Patterson[/url], on Flickr


Next on the list was to install the new gas tank. Before I’d bought the new 18 gallon tank, I did crawl under the car to make sure it would fit with the coil-overs and ladder bars. It sure looked like it would….. (I suspect you know where this is going). The factory tank is designed to wrap around the spare tire well and when it’s back far enough to do that it interferes with the coil overs. Yup what was supposed to be a 20 minute job just got complicated. We’re currently in the process of redoing the trunk floor.

We also have just stared on the EPAS Electric power steering unit and are in the process of figuring out where and how to get the aftermarket AC/Heat unit installed under the dash. As none of those 3 projects are done yet I’m going to hold off posting about them until the installations are complete.

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[Mike P 52]

So back to the gas tank and trunk. This is the trunk/fuel cell I started with. As this will be a street car/daily driver I wanted to have a functional trunk with enough room for a full size spare tire, tool box, jack, tire changing tools, plus enough room for a suitcase or 2.



https://flic.kr/p/2q4MHPp]Fuel Cell[/url] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/153889607@N08/]M Patterson[/url], on Flickr



I had decided to go back to a stock tank so I bought a new 18 gallon tank but as mentioned there were interference issues between it and the rear coil overs. It looked like I had a couple of options short of going back to the fuel cell (which ain’t gonna happen). Some guys have cut the spare tire well completely out, plated over the trunk floor and run a Satellite/Coronet gas tank on their Valiants/Darts. I’ve also seen where others notched the spare tire well and moved the tank forward.



I looked at several tanks for adaptability and if I could have gained another 5 gallons or so of capacity, I’d probably would just have bought another tank and sender. Of the readily available tanks I looked at that would work with the flat trunk floor I’d only gain 1 or 2 gallons so the decision was made to notch the spare tire well and use the tank and sender I already have. Of course relocating the tank led to a few “down stream” issues that also had to be addressed.



The Valiant tank is designed to wrap around the spare tire well, so moving it forward requires part of the spare tire be removed.



https://flic.kr/p/2q5KNri]Z T 1[/url] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/153889607@N08/]M Patterson[/url], on Flickr



https://flic.kr/p/2qbxrcR]Z STW 1[/url] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/153889607@N08/]M Patterson[/url], on Flickr



Doing this requires a custom fill pipe and cutting and welding (which thankfully I’m still be able to do). Losing the spare tire well is not a problem as it’s too small to hold a 28” tall tire anyway.

I found a rear cargo floor pan from a Jeep that’s big enough to cover the tire well and has reinforcement ridges rolled into it. By retaining part of the spare tire well and putting a hatch in it, I could have a nice storage compartment for a jack and impact wrench. The new floor was trimmed, fitted and welded in place and sealed.



https://flic.kr/p/2q9NPg2]Z C[/url] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/153889607@N08/]M Patterson[/url], on Flickr



https://flic.kr/p/2qaBi1i]Z TF[/url] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/153889607@N08/]M Patterson[/url], on Flickr



I used spray on urethane bed liner instead of undercoating on the bottom of the new floor pan. For inside of the trunk I used a tintable bed liner without the texture material. The green is not even close to a match (which I expected) but it’s paintable so that will be addressed down the road.

 

[Mike P 52]

Now I had to do something with the fill pipe. The factory fill pipe has a piece of metal that runs from below the end of the pipe to almost the top of the pipe. When filling the tank this acts as an internal vent so when the tank is full and fuel runs up the bottom side of the pipe (and hopefully shuts off the pump). The part above the divider vents and allows the gas in the lower half of the pipe to go back down into the tank instead of spitting out on to the side of the car and person filling the tank.



https://flic.kr/p/2q6fRqk]Z PV[/url] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/153889607@N08/]M Patterson[/url], on Flickr



When I modified the pipe I lost that feature. Fortunately I’ve been thru this before and knew a fix was to run a ½” fuel line from the top of the tank (slightly above the end of the fill pipe in the gas tank) to the top of the fill pipe (the same system some of the old Jeep Wagoneers’ used).



Putting a fitting for the ½” fuel line in the tank was pretty straight forward as where I located it was a flat area. I used copper washers on either side of the fittings to seal it. Because the fill pipe goes in at an angle the fitting is above the pipe’s end.



https://flic.kr/p/2qaTr9w]Z TV[/url] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/153889607@N08/]M Patterson[/url], on Flickr



In order to get the fitting at the top of the fill pipe to seal I needed a flat spot in the pipe. After the hole for the fitting was drilled I used a ¼” thick washer/spacer I had laying around on the inside of the pipe, ran a bolt thru it and used another odds and ends piece with a flat surface I had in the drawer, tightening the bolt gave me the flat spot I needed for the washers to seal.



https://flic.kr/p/2qaVK2a]Z TV2[/url] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/153889607@N08/]M Patterson[/url], on Flickr



If I still had access to a pipe bender I probably would have just bent up a new metal fill pipe but fuel fill hose for a 97-80 Ford F150 gave me the bends I needed to mate the filler neck to the fill pipe (though it had to be extended a bit). With a little tweaking I was also able to also use the original tank vent. It’s not beautiful but then neither was the stock fill pipe and it is functional.



https://flic.kr/p/2qbwvVA]Z FF[/url] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/153889607@N08/]M Patterson[/url], on Flickr



I like having a set of tools with me so a tool box was added to the trunk where the battery used to sit. I don’t like a tool box that slides around all over the trunk so I used a pair of Jeep hood hold downs on each end to hold it in place. I like this setup as it allows me to easily move the tool box between my different vehicles.



https://flic.kr/p/2qbxeT3]Z TB[/url] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/153889607@N08/]M Patterson[/url], on Flickr



I added a spare tire hold down for the spare that’s the same height as the rear tires. Basically it’s done but I’ll probably be adding a latch for the hatch cover to keep it from rattling, but that’s a project for another day.



https://flic.kr/p/2qbqKCE]Z ST[/url] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/153889607@N08/]M Patterson[/url], on Flickr



When all was said and done I have a functional trunk and new gas tank. Overall I’m happy with the way the trunk turned out (I’ll be happier when it’s all painted body color).

 

[abdywgn]

Jeepers! It's gonna need a Jeep emblem on it.
Only kidding! Great work and ideas.

 

[DionR]

Very cool build!

 

[Mike P 52]

With the trunk taken care of my Grandson and I started on the Heater/AC install. Heat and AC are mandatory for this build and of course the Valiant had neither. After looking at various options I eventually settled on piecing together a system for the car. I already have a new Sanden 508 compressor installed on the HEMI so that part’s taken care of. I found a behind/under-dash heat/AC unit on E Bay that looked like it would work so I picked that up.



https://flic.kr/p/2pLSHPm]z ac[/url] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/153889607@N08/]M Patterson[/url], on Flickr



It took a bit of looking but I eventually found a set of under dash vents I liked (hardest part was finding ones that were set up for 2” ducting). The Y connectors will be installed in the ducting to the outer dash vents to divert the air to floor air when the heater is used. In order to keep things simple, the Y connectors and in-line water control valve will all be cable operated.



https://flic.kr/p/2qcciCS]Z Vents[/url] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/153889607@N08/]M Patterson[/url], on Flickr



We got the evaporator/heater unit mounted up under the dash Sunday. I’m really pleased with the way it tucks up under the dash.



https://flic.kr/p/2qccM12]Z EVAP[/url] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/153889607@N08/]M Patterson[/url], on Flickr



And I got the under dash vents installed (I’ll run the ducting later this week). I could probably make the factory controls function with this, but I’m taking the easy way out and will just build a custom control panel and use the switches provided.



https://flic.kr/p/2qcxLqW]Z V[/url] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/153889607@N08/]M Patterson[/url], on Flickr



I’m still figuring out which way to go on AC hoses and still have to pick a condenser and receiver dryer but we’ll get to that in time.

 

[hcallaway]

You have a great solution. My buddy has a great hot rod shop and does most of the high end builds around here. I asked about adding AC to my dart that had AC. It would be about $4500 for the friends and family discount!!! No AC for me.

 

[Mike P 52]

It's still not going to be real cheap but I do like being able to tailor the system to the car. I'll likely have about what I'd pay for a Vintage Air (or similar) kit. Fortunately I'm able to do my own work which is where the real savings are.

The cheapest way to go if the car had had a working heater, would have been to just add an under-dash AC unit it. I actually thought about doing that as I had the factory heater from the parts car. The main thing that stopped me was that whoever originally built the car had done a nice job of filling the heater motor hole and I really didn’t want to go in and re-cut the hole.

https://flic.kr/p/2q4TtW8]Z Firewall[/url] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/153889607@N08/]M Patterson[/url], on Flickr

Even then I’d still be into it $1200-$1500 in parts, not counting the time and money refurbishing the factory heater (minimum; new motor and heater core).

 

[Mike P 52]

I’ve been working on the EPAS electric power steering. I had purchased their A Body unit a few months ago and the instructions and You Tube video for modifying the steering column and installing the unit seemed pretty straight forward. Also informative were a couple of the threads on the forums from guys who have used EPAS in their cars.

It was one of the threads on this site that I found out that in addition to the A Body Kit, EPAS also sells a kit for “Dodge Demon/Duster”. The “Demon/Duster kit” is actually the one needed for the 67 up cars. As far as components go the only parts difference between the 2 kits appears to be the floor bearing retainer which is triangular shaped on the A Body kit (which also includes an aluminum floor plate that is not used on the 67 and up cars) and diamond shaped on the Demon/Duster kit (which makes it easier to attach to the existing floor plate). The instructions (from the EPAS site on the internet) for the measurements on where to cut the column and shaft are also different.


https://flic.kr/p/2q7wjLx]Z EPAS 1[/url] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/153889607@N08/]M Patterson[/url], on Flickr


I had ordered my EPAS unit thru Summit, but rather than going thru their tech line when I had questions I looked up EPASs number and talked directly to their tech section. I can’t say enough good about EPASs tech support. I called them a couple of times when I was putting the system together. They were quick returning my calls, knowledgeable about questions I had and very helpful. When we determined I needed a different bearing retainer plate they sent it out immediately and I received it in 1 day.

One of the most helpful tips they gave me was that instead of using the supplied measurements for cutting the column that it might be better to reinstall the column and then set the EPAS unit up next to it to determine exactly where it would best index in my specific car and I’m glad I took their advice as my measurements for cutting the column and shaft ended up being slightly different than those recommended in in the instructions.

I was warned by HemiDenny I would run into interference issues with the steering and exhaust using a First Gen Hemi in the 68 and he was right. When we went thru mockup on the parts car we were able to clear the steering box using 56 manifolds but the steering shaft to the manifold was really close……close enough that I was looking at possibly having to build a 2 piece steering shaft with U joints at the firewall to clear the manifold.

The EPAS A body and “Dodge Demon/Duster” kits are designed to run a single straight shaft from the power steering motor down to the steering box. If I had been doing a Small Block, Big Block, and probably even a second or third generation HEMI the installation would have been as straight forward as the instructions and videos depict.

I however am the idiot who’s bound and determined to use a first Gen Hemi. When we were test fitting the PS motor/column I noticed a couple of things. The floor plate that bolts to the firewall and supports the end of the original column (and is used to mount the EPAS floor bearing) has oversized holes punched into it. These were probably used to shift the plate as necessary for shaft alignment as the car went down the assembly line. By shifting the plate all the way to the left and even elongating the holes if necessary I can gain the clearance I need for the steering shaft to manifold clearance. Talking to the tech section at EPAS we determined I could use a U joint off the end of motor instead of the straight coupler (shown in the picture) and move where the shaft comes thru the fire wall for added clearance. The shaft coming thru the firewall will be cut off just past the fire wall, then a second shaft with U joints on each end will be used to connect the shaft from the motor to the steering box.

After a lot of measuring and test fitting I had the column modified and the PS motor attached.


https://flic.kr/p/2qfgV8C]Z SC[/url] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/153889607@N08/]M Patterson[/url], on Flickr


Will I wish I’d put a new turn signal switch when I assembled it…..probably…. but the old one worked so we’ll see how long it lasts.

We got the column and motor installed yesterday, along with its control box. It’s hard to get a good picture of it, but I’m really happy with how it fits in the car.


https://flic.kr/p/2qffknv]Z SCI[/url] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/153889607@N08/]M Patterson[/url], on Flickr


I’m waiting on the U-Joint for the end of the PS motor before I can finalize the shaft thru the firewall part of the project and I still need to get the wiring done including extending the wires on the rheostat so it will mount to the dash where I want it but the hardest part of the project is done.



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[Mike P 52]

A quick update on the AC. I got the ducting run and although the heater hoses and AC lines have yet to be built/connected, I was able to test the unit and check for the volume of air that would come out of the vents. I’m very happy with the results. There’s good velocity coming out of the under-dash vents and the floor air diverters work well. I’m especially happy with the defrosters, they shouldn’t have any problems keeping the windshield clear (this was the major complaint I had with the last aftermarket unit I installed).



Most of the time spent on the car the last couple of weeks has been in the interior. I’ve been sorting out wiring for the accessories I’m adding (electric PS, AC, Radio, GPS, cruise control etc). We also redid the carpet in the rear seat area. I’ll post more on that when I have that part wrapped up.



Yesterday we were at a point where it was time to install the mock-up motor and transmission in the Green car. We’re doing a final mockup basically as a quick check to make sure that no new clearance issues popped up due to any differences in the bodies. I figured that there would be some additional clearancing required but to my surprise the engine and transmission actually seems to fit better in this body than it did in the other 68.





https://flic.kr/p/2qjGL52]Z MU F[/url] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/153889607@N08/]M Patterson[/url], on Flickr



While the mockup engine and transmission is mounted I’ll go ahead and finalize the steering and probably some other little things prior to installing the real engine and transmission.