1970 "DUPED" Dart Swinger

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67Dart440GT said:
I agree with a lot of what you said here. Some people have different standards than others... some know right from wrong. The misrepresentation of the car and the complete butchery is what bothers me most.
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After buying/selling old Mopars for decades like many guys on this site, I have developed some "steps" talking cars as in "buying" a car. Step one:

First off I ask the seller how many old cars has he owned, but importantly how many has he restored as in body/paint or engine build or whatever. I want to know what kind of seller I am dealingwith before I travel hours to go see it. IF I am buying over the phone, HE will get a million qustions. Even then I know I am dealing blind.
Who did the work? The owner. A reputable shop? His cousin Vinnie after 20 beers? IF I expect perfetion the I ask what does this car need to be perfect. Is the seller a one car wonder? Has he been doing this for years with multiple cars or did he spend 30 years and still trying to finish the first one?

We all understand quality of work varies by shop or individual. Does the seller know that visable sand scratches and missed dings and bad alignment does not make for a $10,000 paint job?

If a guy is buying a "done" car for a $10000 price tag does he expect the body/paint to be a perfect $10,000 job on that car? As in h paint foe the paint, but he got all the rest for FREE???? Most buyers want perfect but do not understand what it takes for perfect as in your labor/money.

The old car hobby is a strange as all the players. OK I admit to being strange! :thumbsup:
 
It really sucks that so many people get burned when buying a car, engine, etc. Purchased a complete professionally built 340 in April 2022. Did my homework on the engine builder and specks. Thought I was getting a good deal and great engine. Until this winter when I was going to install it and thought I would check a few things. Head / valve issues, used pistons, different bore sizes, etc. Now the “great engine” is completely torn apart. Spending dollars on a new complete rebuild. I wish people could be honest instead of making a fast buck. Builder is retired. No recourse of getting reimbursed.
This is why when I recently listed a 225 and trans for sale I can say with confidence that I was being honest with my description.
 
It’s an absolutely beautiful car. I almost always get hosed one way or another on my Mopar dealings. It seems some of the people you meet in the hobby are all about the $$$ aspect. But it’s still a bad *** Mopar at the end of the day.
 
Did the guy you bought the car put it together? Maybe he did not know about the leaks?

As far as the paint and body work goes, some are much easier to please in that department than others and you have already claimed that you are a give or take perfectionist.

It is a very nice looking Dart.

I am a little confused since you listed the car for sale last August for 30K.
 
dowboy1970 said:
Did the guy you bought the car put it together? Maybe he did not know about the leaks?

As far as the paint and body work goes, some are much easier to please in that department than others and you have already claimed that you are a give or take perfectionist.

It is a very nice looking Dart.

I am a little confused since you listed the car for sale last August for 30K.
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The previous owner "built" the car.

Claiming to be a perfectionist doesn't take away from the fact that the paint work was described as being done "by one of the best restoration shops in his area" but needed some paint correction. This isn't being a perfectionist to have massive sand scratch swelling, dirt everywhere in the paint, human hair in the paint... and so forth. I have photos of the work I had to do to "correct" it. I can post those up in a bit.

It would be very difficult to not notice the leaks... it literally left oil stains everywhere you parked it... the entire bottom of the engine is covered with oil... and I'm guessing he put that intake on after his builder did the short block.

I had the car up for sale after I bought it because I was so disappointed with it... and wanted to recover my money... but unlike the previous owner I took the listing down after I discovered all of the issues... and wanted to properly correct them before I sell or kept it myself. I am not sure which I will do at this point. I wasn't aware of all of these issues until I really got into the car mechanically to investigate the issues I was seeing.

I will post up some pictures of the trunk striker support that is smashed... and also when I did the paint correction I took the hood scoops off to find half of the fasteners missing or completely ripped out of the scoops.
 
Paint correction.

Also noted the entire car including the tail stripe was completely covered in some form of overspray. You can hear it on your hand when you run your hand across the car. Most of this was removed when I did the paint correction.

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Here are a few updates. I had the day off today so I worked on getting some parts cleaned up and ready for paint. I found an interesting part laying in the pil pan....

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Check out the perfect fitting cinder block for repairing the bolt holes in the pan.... obviously over tightened.

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Here I blasted some parts and started stripping the paint off the block. Most of it was flaking off.

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Some issues like the paint quality could have been judged by you viewing the car in person. One can always find some imperfections. You could have asked for more photos under various lighting conditions. I'm not seeing much of an oil leak. Most people here use a silicone at the fwd and aft ends of the intake manifold, rather than the cork pieces in the gasket kit. Looks like the bead wasn't quite thick enough, but hard for the assembler to know that. Seems overkill for you to remove the engine just to replace gaskets, but looks like you did that to paint the engine bay. Did the seller misrepresent that or you just decided you wanted to paint it. Overall, looks like you got a really nice car. Had you seen it in person would you have declined to buy it at the price you paid? Seems that some of your complaints are more "buyer's remorse". It isn't like the seller was hiding things like rusted-thru floorboards. It has a modern Sanden AC setup so any refrigerant leak should be cheap and easy to fix.
 
Paint/body work??? There are three choices. 1. The body shop that all they will actually accept the car if it is insurance work. Not old cars that take many hours and do not make them any $$$$$$$. If one does accept as a "work on when not busy" deal, that spells body shop jail! 2. The old sorta retired body guy that does a few cars. Almost non existant these days. 3. The DIY home resto guy doing "his" car that he offers for ale. The work varies from anal perfect to "was it done by a gorilla"??

Same holds try for mechanical work. Done by an $80/hr shop? or 2. the DIY guy that varies from pro work to 2. or......Why did that grade 3 bolt not work??

So there are "restored" cars, sorta rebuilt cars, there are drivers that barely run and drive, lip stick on a pig cars, really nice done cars that are worth the $ to a guy that cannot or does not want to build a car, the list is long????.......

UNless you buy a car that everything has been rebuilt or replaced, remember it is NOT perfect and even new cars break and are not always perfect!

THe old car hobby is a HOBBY and hobbies hardly ever make anyone any $$$, they just cost $$$$$$$$$$$$$....therefore, we call them hobbies and not businesses..

So why don't we call the Fed. gov ment a hobby!!???? :poke:
 
BillGrissom said:
Some issues like the paint quality could have been judged by you viewing the car in person. One can always find some imperfections. You could have asked for more photos under various lighting conditions. I'm not seeing much of an oil leak. Most people here use a silicone at the fwd and aft ends of the intake manifold, rather than the cork pieces in the gasket kit. Looks like the bead wasn't quite thick enough, but hard for the assembler to know that. Seems overkill for you to remove the engine just to replace gaskets, but looks like you did that to paint the engine bay. Did the seller misrepresent that or you just decided you wanted to paint it. Overall, looks like you got a really nice car. Had you seen it in person would you have declined to buy it at the price you paid? Seems that some of your complaints are more "buyer's remorse". It isn't like the seller was hiding things like rusted-thru floorboards. It has a modern Sanden AC setup so any refrigerant leak should be cheap and easy to fix.
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Did you even read the thread?
 
Sorry about your experience. I too just bought a 1975 Duster from someone in FL (flew down and trailered back) who did disclose a few known 'issues'. While sparing you all the gory details, I'm now forced to address about two dozen issues. Suffice to say I won't ever buy another classic / muscle car without A.) A great mechanic to go over the entire car B.) while it's up on a lift so you can see all the potential issues prior to purchase. Since a 1970 383 / A833 were transplanted into it by previous owner(s) over its 48 year life who knows what was hacked, replaced, left out, modified, tweaked, siliconed, wired, unwired, rewired and bailing wired. It's truely a "buyer beware" world out there. Oh, and the PO seemed like a real honest and likable guy - go figure.
 
I'm guessing this car started out as a 1972 model..looking at Guage cluster and dash trim package...nice car..sorry for your dilemma...was worth $10k for sure
 
Duster_Dean said:
Sorry about your experience. I too just bought a 1975 Duster from someone in FL (flew down and trailered back) who did disclose a few known 'issues'. While sparing you all the gory details, I'm now forced to address about two dozen issues. Suffice to say I won't ever buy another classic / muscle car without A.) A great mechanic to go over the entire car B.) while it's up on a lift so you can see all the potential issues prior to purchase. Since a 1970 383 / A833 were transplanted into it by previous owner(s) over its 48 year life who knows what was hacked, replaced, left out, modified, tweaked, siliconed, wired, unwired, rewired and bailing wired. It's truely a "buyer beware" world out there. Oh, and the PO seemed like a real honest and likable guy - go figure.
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There are good reason WHY we prefer to buy a virgin untouched project!!! They are worth more $$ also when and if you find one. Sorta like buying an old car that spent it WHOLE like in the dry areas of Texas or Arizona and not one that a past owner drove down there from it life in New England somewhere!! Anytime an old car that is what 40-50-60 years old, has passed thru how many owners (maybe hackers?) hands, there will be issues no doubt.

I have bought more than a few old Mopars overthe phone and rarely was I surprised because I knew I was NOT buying a new or large model car. But it is always better to see the car in person and IF you an have a mechanic chcek for OBVIOUS problems so much the better! When the buyer is convinced he is getting a screaming good deal, those issues that will have to be addressed, he is still happy! But when he says "I thought surely $10000 would buy me a BJ type car and I really figured that old coot just did not know what he had!"

Buying old classic :BangHead: cars is usually an adventure!!


:poke: :steering:
 
Mtrhead said:
I'm guessing this car started out as a 1972 model..looking at Guage cluster and dash trim package...nice car..sorry for your dilemma...was worth $10k for sure
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He took the dash out of a 71 or 72 for the dash controls... A/c stuff.
 
67Dart440GT said:
Did you even read the thread?
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Of course I did. You seem to be a perfectionist, which is OK but means that any work that anyone else did probably will not satisfy you. That doesn't mean you should blame them for all the extra effort you chose to tackle. All the terms describing the car which you are complaining about are subjective. Things like "no leaks" in a 1970's car usually means "no drips on the ground below". You can stop all leaks if you change to modern materials like silicone gaskets and other resto-mod approaches. You decided not the inspect the car in person and to buy as-is, so unfair to publicly shame the seller over fairly niggly issues.
 
Saturday updates.

Motor all cleaned up and old paint removed. Cleaned like crazy and primed. I will probably hit it with another coat of primer after I install the intake and pan... then after that cures I will paint it.

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BillGrissom said:
Of course I did. You seem to be a perfectionist, which is OK but means that any work that anyone else did probably will not satisfy you. That doesn't mean you should blame them for all the extra effort you chose to tackle. All the terms describing the car which you are complaining about are subjective. Things like "no leaks" in a 1970's car usually means "no drips on the ground below". You can stop all leaks if you change to modern materials like silicone gaskets and other resto-mod approaches. You decided not the inspect the car in person and to buy as-is, so unfair to publicly shame the seller over fairly niggly issues.
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I really don't think that having a manifold with an 1/4 inch gap between it and the block with zero sealing is being a perfectionist.... I also don't think that having all the receipts for a car and then noticing some of those parts are in fact NOT on the car... and have been replaced with cheap junk is being a perfectionist... I also don't think that having a pool of oil under a car after driving it once isn't considered leaking oil... Subjective? Maybe to you and the seller but not to anyone else I'd guess. I also don't see anywhere that I publicly shamed the previous owner.. Not once did I mention his screen name or who he was.

I also think you've completely missed the point of this entire thread... maybe you read it, but I don't think you caught it. If you were looking for a gold watch and I said I had one, sold it to you and sent you a Casio... You'd just put it down to being subjective right?
 
I found a receipt with the car for a Mopar distributor, cap and such... The car has a cheap junk "Pro Comp" $65 Summit distributor in the car... and here is where the orange box was mounted at some point.

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