1990 360 engine, trying to retrofit it to use a mechanical fuel pump.

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Kern Dog

Kern Dog

Build your car to handle.
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Hey there. A couple months back, I bought this:

IMG_8407.JPG


It is a 1990 360 from a van. It has a car oil pan and a few goodies already in place including the valve covers, Air Gap intake and this:

IMG_8410.JPG


As you can see, water went through it, maybe due to a bad head gasket or cracked heads.
My question here is regarding the fuel pump. These EFI engines had the hole blocked off where the mechanical pump usually fits but I've heard that an aftermarket pump eccentric allows you to retain a traditional mechanical pump.
Who makes these things and who sells them?
Thanks....
 
Unfortunately I believe Hughes Engines is your only source for the cam extension and eccentric you need for the short nosed roller cam you’ve got …

Hughes Engines
 
Kern Dog said:
Hey there. A couple months back, I bought this:

View attachment 1716331305

It is a 1990 360 from a van. It has a car oil pan and a few goodies already in place including the valve covers, Air Gap intake and this:

View attachment 1716331306

As you can see, water went through it, maybe due to a bad head gasket or cracked heads.
My question here is regarding the fuel pump. These EFI engines had the hole blocked off where the mechanical pump usually fits but I've heard that an aftermarket pump eccentric allows you to retain a traditional mechanical pump.
Who makes these things and who sells them?
Thanks....
Click to expand...
The '89-'91 360 tk roller should be the same cam as the '85-'89 318 pass. car roller, which had a mechanical pump...take the block-off plate off & look inside, there may already be an eccentric in there, or a spacer which would be swapped out w/a factory eccentric.
 
Holy crap, that would be a nice score.
I like the simplicity of a basic mechanical pump.
Otherwise....


​

HUG 7013​

CAM SNOUT EXTENSION (SHORT SNOUT)
87-02 V6 & V8 EXTENDS LENGTH OF CAM SNOUT FOR FUEL PUMP ECCENTRIC
$37.50


HughesExclusive.jpg

87-02 V6 & V8 Extends Length Of Cam Snout For Fuel Pump Eccentric Most hydraulic roller-cammed small blocks have a short snout (nose) on the front of the cam because they are normally used with in-tank electric fuel pumps. If a mechanical fuel pump is to be used, this cam snout extension is required to provide a mounting for the fuel pump eccentric.(P/N 10003) Includes cam bolt, custom cam washer, snout extension and offset key.
hug7013a.jpg
 
woof. i'd say the water ingress is from there not being a carb on it... rarely do you get intake runners that funkalicious from a bad headgasket or cracked head/seat area.

we talked about this previously...

www.forabodiesonly.com

Mechanical fuel pump on a roller cammed 360?

I have no experience with the 318s and 360s once they were fitted with roller cams and lifters. I have even less experience with the Magnum series engines. A friend may be willing to part with an '89 360 that had a roller cam but he swapped in a hydraulic flat tappet setup in it. I'd like to use...
www.forabodiesonly.com www.forabodiesonly.com

i'll echo what killer and 72 said: check what you've got cookin' first and if you do need the adapter hughes is the place to get it. for better or for worse.
 
I forgot about that thread!
The engine was thought to be an '89 but the casting date reads XX-XX-90. It is an LA series of course. I thought it was a flat tappet engine but it is not.
I had much of that story wrong.

Quoted from that thread of mine that you linked, authored by "Professor Fate":

Roller LAs (from the factory) all had long snout cams. Some passcar rollers (non-TBI, with feedback carbs- usually found in Fifth Avenues and the like) already had mechanical fuel pumps. The later '88-'91/'92 TBI motors (found in trucks and vans) used an electric fuel pump in the tank and did not have the mechanical pump, however they still retained the long nose cam. The timing cover either used a block-off plate or did not have the pump boss finish machined, and did not have an eccentric installed on the cam- there was a special deeper cam washer used to make up the difference in depth with the eccentric deleted. Use a standard LA cam bolt washer and the eccentric is a bolt-on; either remove the fuel pump block-off plate or finish opening up the fuel pump boss on the timing cover- depending which you have- and you're good to go (or swap covers if you don't feel like opening up the boss on the TBI cover).
Magnums all had short snout cams and need the Hughes adapter and a timing cover/water pump/accessory drive swap if you want to use a mechanical pump.
Side note: Don't try to use a Magnum cam in a roller LA- it will fit and run, but it's lobes are ground for the Magnum's 1.6:1 rocker ratio and there will be a resultant power loss when run with the LA's 1.5:1 rockers.
Conversely, a factory LA roller cam used in a Magnum can give a nice little low-cost power boost with the Mag's higher ratio rockers.
 
I am not impressed with the Hughes engine cam nose extension... It does not look robust when I used it, I had to modify it myself...

I would recommend getting a cam made with the longer nose for the mechanical pump...
 
junkyardhero said:
woof. i'd say the water ingress is from there not being a carb on it... rarely do you get intake runners that funkalicious from a bad headgasket or cracked head/seat area.

we talked about this previously...

[/URL]

i'll echo what killer and 72 said: check what you've got cookin' first and if you do need the adapter hughes is the place to get it. for better or for worse.
Click to expand...
The first time I discovered a roller 'teener on the job was a red '85 Dippy, the head gasket started leaking on #7, just past the warranty....not a ton of miles for the year on it either. Sam also had an '83 Cordoba, gold w/a brown top, all well maintained & garaged indoors.....one never knows.
 
Didn't read all the response, but my '89 roller 360 not only had the long cam snout, but it also had the fuel pump eccentric on it even though it was throttle body injected.
 
318willrun said:
Didn't read all the response, but my '89 roller 360 not only had the long cam snout, but it also had the fuel pump eccentric on it even though it was throttle body injected.
Click to expand...
That's what My memory was faintly telling Me.......
 
I’ll echo the above. The La roller will have a long snout cam. The magnum series is when they went to a short snout. The change came with the magnum timing cover.
 
I found four of these in the shed….

DC55B104-A6CE-4F7C-8392-509E3370B460.jpeg


It just needs a good cleaning to make me feel better.
 
I have seen no less than six 1990 360 roller cam engines WITH short snout cam. I have seen them with the eccentric in place as well. My guess is later or closer to end of LA production is when the changeover began to happen. Best thing to do is pop the block off loose and take a peek.
 
junkyardhero said:
woof. i'd say the water ingress is from there not being a carb on it... rarely do you get intake runners that funkalicious from a bad headgasket or cracked head/seat area.

we talked about this previously...

www.forabodiesonly.com

Mechanical fuel pump on a roller cammed 360?

I have no experience with the 318s and 360s once they were fitted with roller cams and lifters. I have even less experience with the Magnum series engines. A friend may be willing to part with an '89 360 that had a roller cam but he swapped in a hydraulic flat tappet setup in it. I'd like to use...
www.forabodiesonly.com www.forabodiesonly.com

i'll echo what killer and 72 said: check what you've got cookin' first and if you do need the adapter hughes is the place to get it. for better or for worse.
Click to expand...
This ^^^. The water induction is from the thing sittin out in the weather.
 
junkyardhero said:
woof. i'd say the water ingress is from there not being a carb on it... rarely do you get intake runners that funkalicious from a bad headgasket or cracked head/seat area.
Click to expand...

That could be. They pulled this engine and swapped in a stock rebuilt 360. He thought this had a bad head gasket but who knows. I'll dig in after New Year's and report back on it.
 
66fyssh said:
Don't clean it. They have a coating, can't remember what, that makes it look nasty, but it needs to be there to help prevent friction wear.
Click to expand...
If the coating resembles caked on sludge, this one matches that description.
 
Killer6 said:
The first time I discovered a roller 'teener on the job was a red '85 Dippy, the head gasket started leaking on #7, just past the warranty....not a ton of miles for the year on it either. Sam also had an '83 Cordoba, gold w/a brown top, all well maintained & garaged indoors.....one never knows.
Click to expand...
yeah the year break with roller motors is kind of odd, lots of numbers thrown around but to my (albeit limited) knowledge there wasn't a set in stone date for the roll out. i've seen stuff as early as 85 have 'em and as late as 89 not.

there was a old guy locally that had an absolutely *mint* 'doba; that light blue with maroon interior. bought it new at the dealer nicely optioned 360 4bbl car and i wanna say he had them put mirada rims on it? it had headers and duals and he'd light 'em up every now and then. dig those crazy land barges.
 
I've often cleaned them with gasoline and a Scotch Brite pad. The lever of the fuel pump got a coating of assembly grease on fresh builds too.
 
I used that Hughes part (slightly modified) so I could run a gear drive and a mechanical fuel pump.

It looks a bit wonky but it works. I wouldn’t be afraid to use another one.
 
Kern Dog said:
Holy crap, that would be a nice score.
I like the simplicity of a basic mechanical pump.
Otherwise....


​
​

HUG 7013​

CAM SNOUT EXTENSION (SHORT SNOUT)
87-02 V6 & V8 EXTENDS LENGTH OF CAM SNOUT FOR FUEL PUMP ECCENTRIC
$37.50


HughesExclusive.jpg

87-02 V6 & V8 Extends Length Of Cam Snout For Fuel Pump Eccentric Most hydraulic roller-cammed small blocks have a short snout (nose) on the front of the cam because they are normally used with in-tank electric fuel pumps. If a mechanical fuel pump is to be used, this cam snout extension is required to provide a mounting for the fuel pump eccentric.(P/N 10003) Includes cam bolt, custom cam washer, snout extension and offset key.
hug7013a.jpg
Click to expand...


Newbomb Turk said:
I used that Hughes part (slightly modified) so I could run a gear drive and a mechanical fuel pump.

It looks a bit wonky but it works. I wouldn’t be afraid to use another one.
Click to expand...


The one Hughes sent me had an even smaller chunk of aluminum as shown in the picture...

I told Hughes that I wanted the long nose cam and was willing to wait until they had one in stock, instead those bastards sent me a short nose cam and the hokey nose extension so they could charge me the extra for the nose extension since both cams are the same price... That's why I don't do business with Hughes since... They lost a customer over that cheap play to charge me extra for the cam and nose gear vs just sending me the correct cam...

Picture the failure mode: The hokey Hughes metal chunk may shear, then the cam will stop spinning holding the valves open, then the crank will keep spinning until one of the pistons hits the valve and launches the piston and connecting rod through the side of the block, destroying the engine...

I went to the hardware store and bought a standard keyway and ground it down so it was in the cam and the nose extension for mine... See the gap between the holey chunk of metal and the cam gear... Get a keyway and grind it down on a bench grinder so you have more engagement by filling the whole slot for the keyway in the cam gear... It reduces stress on the keyway by having more engagement... Use the full area of the slot in the cam gear with the keyway to minimize the shear force and prevent the timing gear from spinning on the cam when the engine is running... I'm not going to let their lack of engineering ruin my engine...

However, I recommend getting a cam with a nose and using the standard style keyway and cam eccentric... It's cheaper to buy a new cam with the proper nose, than blow up an engine... Maek it like Chrysler originally designed it and has proven to work with decades of reliable engines in the field...

Build the engine right the first time, and then you won't have to do it over later....


hug7013a B.jpg
 
krazykuda said:
The one Hughes sent me had an even smaller chunk of aluminum as shown in the picture...

I told Hughes that I wanted the long nose cam and was willing to wait until they had one in stock, instead those bastards sent me a short nose cam and the hokey nose extension so they could charge me the extra for the nose extension since both cams are the same price... That's why I don't do business with Hughes since... They lost a customer over that cheap play to charge me extra for the cam and nose gear vs just sending me the correct cam...

Picture the failure mode: The hokey Hughes metal chunk may shear, then the cam will stop spinning holding the valves open, then the crank will keep spinning until one of the pistons hits the valve and launches the piston and connecting rod through the side of the block, destroying the engine...

I went to the hardware store and bought a standard keyway and ground it down so it was in the cam and the nose extension for mine... See the gap between the holey chunk of metal and the cam gear... Get a keyway and grind it down on a bench grinder so you have more engagement by filling the whole slot for the keyway in the cam gear... It reduces stress on the keyway by having more engagement... Use the full area of the slot in the cam gear with the keyway to minimize the shear force and prevent the timing gear from spinning on the cam when the engine is running... I'm not going to let their lack of engineering ruin my engine...

However, I recommend getting a cam with a nose and using the standard style keyway and cam eccentric... It's cheaper to buy a new cam with the proper nose, than blow up an engine... Maek it like Chrysler originally designed it and has proven to work with decades of reliable engines in the field...

Build the engine right the first time, and then you won't have to do it over later....


View attachment 1716332765
Click to expand...


I’ll have to look for mine. I don’t remember the key being too short.
 
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